What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins?

[VanceMack]

The politicians got what they wanted (attention). Chick -fil-A got what they wanted (money). Regular folks got hosed. Sounds about right.

I think the politicians ended up getting punched in the mouth, chickfila continued to do business as usual (with a slightly higher bottom line thanks to all the free advertising) and regular people weren't all that impacted one way or the other. The owner still has his beliefs as does everyone else.

 

[ChuckBerry]

"Marriage" is a word that legally defines a union. Only that. Customarily, for a millenia, it has been between a man and a woman. Civil unions can accomplish the very same "contract" between any two people -- in fact? A civil union can do it better. It would seem to me that gays would have much more important things to accomplish for their cause than focussing on the semantics.

You then have to ask yourself why. Civil unions might well be the law of the land in most states if not federally by now. IMO the heart of SSM has always been about something more fundamental than equal rights; the transformation of the word "marriage".


Sent from my homing pigeon using Crapatalk.

 

[lpast]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Critical Thought...your a reasonable person, what was accomplished was exactly the opposite of what you wanted. Rahm Emmanuel and the others that made threats not to allow CFA in their cities made it even worse...everyone with half a brain saw through that and everyone Knows rahm emmanuel if it would benefit him would have welcomed CFA in his city.
The gay community had better start being more reasonable..this get in everyones face is going to start to backfire...people are getting sick of it.
Not sick of what you are trying to get...sick of the way your going about it. Its like indian rope burn after awhile

 

[lizzie]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

I can't be out at my work. My coworkers are less than tolerant of gay people. They often make jokes and snide remarks about them. One coworker who is married to a woman but who is effeminate is constantly made fun of behind the scenes because his coworkers all think he is gay. My own supervisor even has stereotypical views of gays and makes fun of how they play "husband and wife." If I came out at work, I would be ostracized and maybe even fired.

So no, I'm not going to be bringing about much change. And I work with educated people, who have degrees. But that is the way things are here.

That's really sad imo. My guess is that (assuming you are a nice guy), your co-workers would actually learn a good thing or two if they were aware. There's nothing quite like honesty from a person that you like, to open up your eyes to the errors of things you may believe.

 

[Bobcat]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

What their CEO is advocating for is discrimination. He is arguing that the government should discriminate against gay people. That is an action. He also donated large sums of the profits Chick-Fil-A makes to hate groups. That is also an action. So, definitely, actions like the boycott are justified responses, no?

Saying that you favor traditional marriage because of your religious beliefs is not advocating for discrimination. Forcing your viewpoint on others and punishing them financially if they disagree with you is facism.

I think most people have no issue with some kind of civil union for gays if they wish to commit to each other, but just don't demand that the state sanction it as a marriage.

 

[Bobcat]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Does the "we are allowed to hold different views in this country" rational apply to all forms of bigotry? For example, would using the government to prevent interracial marriage be covered under that? Or do you acknowledge that that is bigotry? If so, what's the difference between discriminating against people on the basis of their race and discriminating against people on the basis of their gender? Why do you consider one bigotry, but not the other?

a society sets its standards of right and wrong, good and bad, by concensus and legislation. Our constitution and moral code are based on judeo/christian teachings. Its not bigotry when a society enforces its standards on its members. Our society currently accepts interracial marriage even though some members of each race oppose it. Those who oppose it are not bigots, they just have views that are not in agreement with the majority.

You on the left generally want to tell people what they must think and believe. You are opponents of real personal freedom. You are facists. You are the big brother thought police that Orwell wrote about.

 

[a351]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Saying that you favor traditional marriage because of your religious beliefs is not advocating for discrimination.

Sure it is, it's simply a form of discrimination that has been deemed as acceptable by a large portion of society.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Saying that you favor traditional marriage because of your religious beliefs is not advocating for discrimination. Forcing your viewpoint on others and punishing them financially if they disagree with you is facism.

I think most people have no issue with some kind of civil union for gays if they wish to commit to each other, but just don't demand that the state sanction it as a marriage.

He is arguing that the government should not allow gay people to get married. You can call that "favoring traditional marriage", but we all know that is what you're really saying, right? He is saying that he wants the government to prevent gay people from getting married. Flat out. That is the most clear cut discrimination there is.

Civil unions aren't a solution. First off, it is just a separate drinking fountains policy. The only point of it is to shame gay people, and that is not acceptable. After all, the most fundamental harm done by the anti-gay discrimination policies is that it bolsters the bigotry and hate that are causing thousands of kids to kill themselves each year when they find out that they are gay and fueling tens of thousands of violent hate crimes a year. Government cannot be in the business of announcing that some demographic groups are inferior to others and that is exactly what the civil unions approach does.

Secondly, they will never really have equal footing with marriage. Are you going to order all private companies to treat civil unions just like marriages? Even if so, are you going to want to exempt companies owned by religious organizations? What about small businesses and so on? No, you'd never actually support forcing the private sector to treat them equally. Also, states aren't required by law to recognize the civil unions of other states like they are for marriages. So, people in a civil union face the bizarre situation that they are effectively married in one state, but not when they go to certain other states. Also, there are literally tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands, of laws and government policies between state, federal and local that would need to be updated to include "or civil union"... That just isn't going to happen.

a society sets its standards of right and wrong, good and bad, by concensus and legislation. Our constitution and moral code are based on judeo/christian teachings. Its not bigotry when a society enforces its standards on its members. Our society currently accepts interracial marriage even though some members of each race oppose it. Those who oppose it are not bigots, they just have views that are not in agreement with the majority.

You on the left generally want to tell people what they must think and believe. You are opponents of real personal freedom. You are facists. You are the big brother thought police that Orwell wrote about.

LOL so if supporting discrimination is not bigotry, what is? The right has gotten to the point lately where you appear to not believe bigotry exists at all. It's sick.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Critical Thought...your a reasonable person, what was accomplished was exactly the opposite of what you wanted. Rahm Emmanuel and the others that made threats not to allow CFA in their cities made it even worse...everyone with half a brain saw through that and everyone Knows rahm emmanuel if it would benefit him would have welcomed CFA in his city.
The gay community had better start being more reasonable..this get in everyones face is going to start to backfire...people are getting sick of it.
Not sick of what you are trying to get...sick of the way your going about it. Its like indian rope burn after awhile

1. Rahm Emancuel has not and never will represent the gay community.
2. The gay community had nothing to do with the threats those politicians made.
3. A tiny minority of the gay community was even involved in this situation.
4. Many people of the gay community called for tolerance or even support of Chick-fil-A going so far as to write articles and post videos.
5. I am absolutely sick and tired of your hasty generalizations. A few terrorists do not represent every individual in Islam. The Westboro Baptist Church does not represent every Christian. And the handful gay individuals involved in this situation does not represent the gay community.

Now please, STOP, pretending that I wanted anything to come of this because I am gay. What I want from people is mutual respect. And your attitude here is not respectful in the least. You seem to take great joy in this "we showed the gays" stance when for the most part the gay community was not involved in this situation. That says a lot about your character.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

But it is a problem if that is what people see and not much else. And the gay community does itself a disservice by not highlighting the majority of themselves who are the everyday people who act respectfully.

Though they may be a minority (the act out group) they are a strong vocal and visual group that gets most of the attention. It is they who are the most seen and heard, and it is they who are doing a disservice to the respectful group which does in fact want to be integrated with full equal rights in society. I won't lay all of the blame on the act out group for the continued inequality both legally and in the minds of many, but the act out group are a reason for the slower progress and the ignorant views of otherwise good people. If that is what many of the majority see of gay people, its not a leap to see why they have the views of gay people they do. If I didn't know a few who are good people and act respectful and respect themselves and their partners, I would likely be one of the ignorant people because that is all I would see.

You don't understand...for us regular gay people it isn't easy to come out of the closet within our community. Some of us have jobs we could lose. Some of us would strain our relationships by doing so. Some of us have kids and are afraid of dragging them into the mess.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

It's nice when a few pro-SSM admit that part of the agenda is marginalization of religion.

Thank you for not saying that marginalization of religion is on the gay agenda.

 

[X Factor]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

1. Rahm Emancuel has not and never will represent the gay community.
2. The gay community had nothing to do with the threats those politicians made.
3. A tiny minority of the gay community was even involved in this situation.
4. Many people of the gay community called for tolerance or even support of Chick-fil-A going so far as to write articles and post videos.
5. I am absolutely sick and tired of your hasty generalizations. A few terrorists do not represent every individual in Islam. The Westboro Baptist Church does not represent every Christian. And the handful gay individuals involved in this situation does not represent the gay community.

Now please, STOP, pretending that I wanted anything to come of this because I am gay. What I want from people is mutual respect. And your attitude here is not respectful in the least. You seem to take great joy in this "we showed the gays" stance when for the most part the gay community was not involved in this situation. That says a lot about your character.

It's funny you talk about "mutual respect". More than once you've ascribed hateful motives to people who went to Chick-fil-a to show their support, yet, strangely you also say, as some sort of argument that there are gay people who openly and publicly supported CFA. If what you say is true, then isn't it obvious that people support CFA, either on that appreciation day or otherwise, for more reasons than you claim? I haven't been to CFA in, probably, more than 2 years (so I'm not one of the guilty ones) but my understanding of the point of that appreciation thing was more about people believing the owner had a right to express his beliefs without a bunch of fall-out, political or otherwise.

 

[Truckstop]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Secondly, they will never really have equal footing with marriage. Are you going to order all private companies to treat civil unions just like marriages? Even if so, are you going to want to exempt companies owned by religious organizations? What about small businesses and so on? No, you'd never actually support forcing the private sector to treat them equally.

At least with the recent pols sending early warning shots about how they would act if they thought they could get away with it, we now know that the "slippery slope fallacy" we so often hear about was true. Anyone that is not on board with ssm WILL be attacked eventually. Already happening it seems.

Christian Photographers Sued for Refusing to Take Pictures of Gay Wedding - San Francisco News - The Snitch

I hope you get ssm through, I just think it would be sooner than later if there was less screaming bigot and homophobe at people.

 

[Surtr]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

But what has been accomplished?

Profits, profits, profits.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Anyone that is not on board with ssm WILL be attacked eventually. Already happening it seems.

Correct. They will be, and in many cases already are, treated the same way as racists or any other kind of bigot. As they should be. Hurting other people for no reason other than bigotry is not acceptable and should not be treated as though it were.

 

[Surtr]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Correct. They will be, and in many cases already are, treated the same way as racists or any other kind of bigot. As they should be. Hurting other people for no reason other than bigotry is not acceptable and should not be treated as though it were.

So just continue the cycle of oppression then? Awesome.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

So just continue the cycle of oppression then? Awesome.

Cycle of oppression? Not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying that stopping people from oppressing others with bigotry is itself oppression? I don't get it.

 

[Surtr]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Cycle of oppression? Not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying that stopping people from oppressing others with bigotry is itself oppression? I don't get it.

Then pick up a history book.

 

[Truckstop]

Cycle of oppression? Not sure what you're talking about. Are you saying that stopping people from oppressing others with bigotry is itself oppression? I don't get it.

Are you saying that not wanting to photograph their wedding was oppressing them?

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Are you saying that not wanting to photograph their wedding was oppressing them?

A business denying service to customers on the basis of their sexual orientation is, of course, oppressive and illegal in many states. It's no different than refusing to serve black customers or whatever.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Then pick up a history book.

You'll have to lay out your argument more than that... If countering oppression is oppression in your book, then are you just a straight up nihilist? No matter what happens in the world, we'll be awash with oppression, so who cares?

 

[Surtr]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

A business denying service to customers on the basis of their sexual orientation is, of course, oppressive and illegal in many states. It's no different than refusing to serve black customers or whatever.

It's nothing like segregation. The comparison is appalling, since it cheapens the actual strife black Americans had to endure. That was real oppression. The gays can't legally be married, and that's about it. Not a huge deal.

 

[Surtr]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

You'll have to lay out your argument more than that... If countering oppression is oppression in your book, then are you just a straight up nihilist? No matter what happens in the world, we'll be awash with oppression, so who cares?

Where are you getting any of this? Do you even know what LBJ did to the South after the Civil Rights Act of 1968 was passed? You need to learn history before demanding repetition of it.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

It's nothing like segregation. The comparison is appalling, since it cheapens the actual strife black Americans had to endure. That was real oppression. The gays can't legally be married, and that's about it. Not a huge deal.

Er what? How is a business refusing to serve gay people less bad than a business refusing to serve black people? Or how is that somehow less big of a deal?

Certainly overall the blacks were more oppressed than gay people are today. That doesn't mean that businesses refusing to serve gay people is somehow better than businesses refusing to serve black people.

Where are you getting any of this? Do you even know what LBJ did to the South after the Civil Rights Act of 1968 was passed? You need to learn history before demanding repetition of it.

Explain your position if you don't mind. What I don't understand is what you think we should do. If we just let people go around oppressing others, obviously that is oppression. But if we don't let people go around oppressing others, you're saying that is oppression too... So what do you think we should do?

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

It's funny you talk about "mutual respect". More than once you've ascribed hateful motives to people who went to Chick-fil-a to show their support, yet, strangely you also say, as some sort of argument that there are gay people who openly and publicly supported CFA. If what you say is true, then isn't it obvious that people support CFA, either on that appreciation day or otherwise, for more reasons than you claim? I haven't been to CFA in, probably, more than 2 years (so I'm not one of the guilty ones) but my understanding of the point of that appreciation thing was more about people believing the owner had a right to express his beliefs without a bunch of fall-out, political or otherwise.

The Appreciation day was orchestrated by an anti gay politician with an agenda just as self serving as were the empty threats by the handful of politicians who threatened CFA. It was all for photo ops and pleasing bankrollers. People just allowed themselves to be manipulated by buying rhetoric that it was for some higher purpose like free speech, when in reality that task could have been far better served by donating money to the opponents or PACs against those self serving politicians. Both the Appreciation day and boycott served no other purpose than to get the politicians some free press.

And my issue with lpast, which you seemed to fail to recognize, was his hasty generalizations where he continuously and irrationally lumps the entire gay community into the same group as those jackasses who threatened and harassed CFA. Do you find that respectful or are you going to continue to ignore it?