What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins?

[CriticalThought]

It is over. The progressive politicians who made empty threats to block CFA restaurants in their cities backed down the moment people from their own side chastised them for it. The big Appreciation day set up by Huckabee brought large crowds to CFA restaurants across the country. The counter protesting kiss-ins attracted some press but little notice.

But what has been accomplished?

As a gay individual I have to say I am hurt. I'm hurt by thousands of individuals coming to support a restaurant that donates money to hate groups. I'm hurt by people who supposedly support my dream of attaining marriage rights acting out in childish and bigoted ways such as belittling CFA employees, vandalizing franchises, and acting insufferable. I'm hurt that gay employees of CFA have been caught in between this mess. I'm hurt that a handful of progressive politicians abused their authority and as a result the entire LGBT community is being blamed for those individuals' intolerance and ineptitude.

If your goal was to hurt me and many gay and lesbian people like me then consider this all a success.

Obviously your goal wasn't protecting free speech. Buying a chicken sandwich or acting like a douche bag in no way made us a freer people. If you had wanted to do that the you would have donated money to the campaigns or PACS of the opponents of the politicians who made those empty threats. Showing up to an Appreciation day set up by an anti gay politician had no affect on the handful of politicians who made those empty threats, and most backed down before Huckabee even suggested the day. If free speech had been your goal then there were many, many better ways you could have demonstrated your support. No, your real intention here was to hurt people.

Obviously your goal wasn't to bring about more tolerance. Acting as an intolerant asstard to franchise owners and employees who had nothing to do with the comments of the CFA president does not bring about equal rights or greater acceptance for the LGBT community. Declaring anyone who eats at this restaurant to be a "bigot" or who holds a different opinion on same sex marriage to be a "bigot" does not open up any dialogue on gay rights. No, you real intention here was to hurt people.

Nothing was accomplished. A few politicians on both sides got some photo ops and headlines on a wedge issue. Chick-Fil-A made a lot of money. And a whole hell of lot of people got to act like rebellious children.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Since when did we ever try to accomplish anything?

Pretty much everything we do is just knee-jerk reactions now, on a never ending cycle.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Maybe if we just pushed for Canadians to become us citizens then they could vote for gay SSM.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

...

I should stop drinking and then getting on the inter webs.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Since when did we ever try to accomplish anything?

Pretty much everything we do is just knee-jerk reactions now, on a never ending cycle.

Thank you for summing up American politics.

 

[lizzie]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Hopefully, what was accomplished, was that a few politicians learned to keep their mouths shut, and refrain from making veiled threats to private businesses. They tried to make it a gay rights issue, but learned otherwise, if they were paying attention.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Hopefully, what was accomplished, was that a few politicians learned to keep their mouths shut, and refrain from making veiled threats to private businesses. They tried to make it a gay rights issue, but learned otherwise, if they were paying attention.

That makes absolutely no sense. If anything, this gave those politicians exactly what they wanted. They got some headlines and pleased the people who bankroll them. This in no way hurt them. The only thing that was accomplished was that both sides once again exploited the LGBT community to further their own ends.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

That makes absolutely no sense. If anything, this gave those politicians exactly what they wanted. They got some headlines and pleased the people who bankroll them. This in no way hurt them. The only thing that was accomplished was that both sides once again exploited the LGBT community to further their own ends.

Both sides didn't exploit the LGBT community. The politicians exploited you.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do . . . I'm not sure I understand it. Certainly you realize that, while the LGBT community has made significant strides in all areas, they have a way to go...? Anything that gets people thinking about SSM is a good thing, don't you think? These kinds of huge cultural changes take time. People don't make many changes without kicking and screaming. It's human nature. Let 'em kick and let 'em scream. One step closer. Anything that puts it on the front page is a good thing, in my opinion. Some backlash is to be expected, but all in all, this event has made a lot of people stop and think.

 

[clownboy]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

As my Grandma used to say, "some kinds of help are no help at all".

 

[VanceMack]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

To the OP...what exactly do you THINK is going to happen when you take people that are loving, caring, actually treat people well, but disagree with you about changing existing laws to legalize gay marriage and then you scream "I ****ING HATE YOU YOU RACIST HATE FILLED HOMOPHOBIC BIGOT I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE Y...(well...not the president but all you republicans)...**** YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!

Seriously. What do you THINK is going to happen? And frankly...for all your mock outrage...you are one of the biggest pricks on this site when it comes to respecting people that disagree with you about gay marriage.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Both sides didn't exploit the LGBT community. The politicians exploited you.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do . . . I'm not sure I understand it. Certainly you realize that, while the LGBT community has made significant strides in all areas, they have a way to go...? Anything that gets people thinking about SSM is a good thing, don't you think? These kinds of huge cultural changes take time. People don't make many changes without kicking and screaming. It's human nature. Let 'em kick and let 'em scream. One step closer. Anything that puts it on the front page is a good thing, in my opinion. Some backlash is to be expected, but all in all, this event has made a lot of people stop and think.

A boycott would have been sufficient for raising the awareness of same sex marriage. The rest of this was above and beyond what was sane or rational.

 

[clownboy]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

When people recognise, that's no time to be blasting them with both guns. Just my opinion, but CT got it right in that post. It happens to all of us. Here we are, defending our "side" when someone from our "side" comes along and drops a turd in the punchbowl.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

To the OP...what exactly do you THINK is going to happen when you take people that are loving, caring, actually treat people well, but disagree with you about changing existing laws to legalize gay marriage and then you scream "I ****ING HATE YOU YOU RACIST HATE FILLED HOMOPHOBIC BIGOT I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE Y...(well...not the president but all you republicans)...**** YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!

Seriously. What do you THINK is going to happen? And frankly...for all your mock outrage...you are one of the biggest pricks on this site when it comes to respecting people that disagree with you about gay marriage.

I like your post alot. Can't agree with your last two lines, though. No experience.

A boycott would have been sufficient for raising the awareness of same sex marriage. The rest of this was above and beyond what was sane or rational.

A boycott? That's exactly the opposite of what happened. If the LGBT community couldn't pull that off? That's not the fault of people who respect traditional families.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

To the OP...what exactly do you THINK is going to happen when you take people that are loving, caring, actually treat people well, but disagree with you about changing existing laws to legalize gay marriage and then you scream "I ****ING HATE YOU YOU RACIST HATE FILLED HOMOPHOBIC BIGOT I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE Y...(well...not the president but all you republicans)...**** YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!

Seriously. What do you THINK is going to happen? And frankly...for all your mock outrage...you are one of the biggest pricks on this site when it comes to respecting people that disagree with you about gay marriage.

No, I'm not playing this childish game with you. I made my peace on this issue long ago. To quote myself...

I apologize.

After hearing Obama throw in his support for same sex marriage at a time when it is very likely politically disadvantageous for him to do so, I finally came to the end of a journey that I have been on the last few weeks.

I now recognize that over the years I have done far more harm to the cause of legalizing same sex marriage than good since I have engaged in tactics that were often completely disrespectful.

I've ridiculed religious beliefs and belittled people with little regard for the consequences and I felt justified in doing so because I framed the issue in very politically divisive language. I felt I was attacking bigots and bullies and I refused to see the individuals on the other side of the discussion as my fellow Americans and as human beings.

I'm tired of living within this superficial political division. I cannot force people to accept my views and it is wrong of me to try to intellectually bully people into evaluating their beliefs.

The reality is the same sex marriage debate has been long over. People may think I am crazy for that view given that North Carolina just passed a Constitutional ban against same sex marriage and civil unions, but I see that vote at this point as completely irrelevant.

What I didn't get before is that same sex marriage will not be won by lobbying politicians, winning legal battles in the court room, or crafting the perfect political arguments. It is won by everyday people who are just living their day to day lives.

It is through the simple act of seeing same sex couples come together, form committed relationships, and form their own families that people change their views on gay rights. More gay and lesbian people are coming out than ever before and they are forming connections to the people within their communities. It is through that process that people are evaluating their long held beliefs because they come to respect and care for the gay and lesbian people they encounter in their lives. They see gay and lesbian families for what they are...no different than their own.

For the longest period I blamed religion and what I perceived as closed mindedness for opposition to same sex marriage. However, I was the one who was closed minded. I have always been confident in my understanding of the Bible but over the last few months I have been schooled by pastors, biblical scholars, and gay Christians on the issue of homosexuality. I now realize the issue of whether homosexuality, as we understand it in this day and age, is a sin is not as clear cut as many people led me to believe over the years. I have often only thought of demeaning Christianity but in doing so I often failed to recognize that the biggest proponents of same sex marriage have always been Christians.

There is no sense in having resentment towards those who view this issue ideologically. They don't know me and they have no sense what of marriage means to me. To them, I am someone who is demanding acceptance for my sexual behavior and seeking to change a long standing institution to accomplish that agenda. While there are some individuals who frame same sex marriage as a religious issue and others who frame it as a civil rights issue, the reality is it is a human issue.

I've been angry with the times in which I live because I have seen them as ignorant times. But because I live in this time I get to do something that will forever change the course of human history. I get to prove to the world that I am a human being deserving of the opportunity to marry the individual I love. I can do that best by simply being a decent person and honoring the commitment I have with my partner.

I refuse to be a tool.

I refuse to let you accuse me.

You don't know me, you don't know what I believe, and you just proved with your own words what kind of person you are.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

No, I'm not playing this childish game with you. I made my peace on this issue long ago. To quote myself...

I refuse to be a tool.

I refuse to let you accuse me.

You don't know me, you don't know what I believe, and you just proved with your own words what kind of person you are.

Puleeaaaase. :lamo There is no mystery what kind of person I am. I am painfully...BRUTALLY honest. And like it or not dig through EVERY thread on this site and watch what happens when someone has the audacity to not bow on the issue of gay marriage. Hell...you pointed out the reality in your OP. Point of fact...I can guarantee it will happen in THIS thread if it goes more than a page...but we DO have your history to draw on, dont we.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

A boycott would have been sufficient for raising the awareness of same sex marriage. The rest of this was above and beyond what was sane or rational.

LOL. A boycott of WHAT? You just stated that CFA LOCAL employees and managers had NOTHING to do with Mr. Cathy's (the CEO's) SSM position. You start with a premise that they are blameless and end up recommending that they be boycotted. What happened is that the GLBT "spokespersons" made noise (loud and proud?) which in turn ticked off THOUSANDS of normal thinking folks that responded by supporting the LOCAL CFA folks to PROTECT them from moron mayors that wanted to ruin and or remove their jobs.

The way to get your message accross is by POSITIVE rational argument, not by "acting up" and being irrational. Support for SSM is SLOWLY gaining (now legal in 6 states and DC) so why initiate a set back by creating a CRISIS instead of simply (and stupidly) saying that Mr. Cathy is not allowed to hold his opinion but YOU are? Is that not your basic argument? That since you are for SSM so you get to speak (and support ads that get your message out) but that Mr. Cathy and those that see GLBT as a disease, affront to god or a mental problem are not allowed to hold their views or speak publically about them.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Puleeaaaase. :lamo There is no mystery what kind of person I am. I am painfully...BRUTALLY honest. And like it or not dig through EVERY thread on this site and watch what happens when someone has the audacity to not bow on the issue of gay marriage. Hell...you pointed out the reality in your OP. Point of fact...I can guarantee it will happen in THIS thread if it goes more than a page...but we DO have your history to draw on, dont we.

What is it that you want? This thread asks the simple question, what has been accomplished by this nonsense? Where is your answer? Is your presence in this thread merely to attack me out of your own sense of personal animosity? Feel free! Please, come into a thread in which I open up and admit that I have been hurt by how both sides have conducted themselves in this debacle and attack me for doing so! Show everyone the rationality and decency that this situation has bestowed within people.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

To the OP...what exactly do you THINK is going to happen when you take people that are loving, caring, actually treat people well, but disagree with you about changing existing laws to legalize gay marriage and then you scream "I ****ING HATE YOU YOU RACIST HATE FILLED HOMOPHOBIC BIGOT I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE Y...(well...not the president but all you republicans)...**** YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!!

Somebody who is supporting bigotry against gay people might seem like a perfectly nice person in regular life, they might volunteer for charities and just be a pleasure to be around. But that's always been true of everything. Back when lots of people opposed equal rights for black people, I'm sure many of those people were just as nice and charitable and likeable as the folks who are now opposing equal rights for gay people. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it not bigotry. It is bigotry. A person has a moral obligation to continually be seeking out bigotry they are carrying around and address it. People that oppose equal rights for gay people are failing in that regard. They need to do better and they need to be made aware that what they are doing is not acceptable.

This isn't some small thing. Millions of people are being oppressed right here in our country. They are denied equal rights. Maybe more importantly, the stigma that they are spreading leads to thousands of children committing suicide every year when they find out that they are gay. It leads to thousands, or more likely tens of thousands, of violent hate crimes each year. It is a serious problem that they are causing and it needs to be addressed.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

LOL. A boycott of WHAT? You just stated that CFA LOCAL employees and managers had NOTHING to do with Mr. Cathy's (the CEO's) SSM position. You start with a premise that they are blameless and end up recommending that they be boycotted. WHat happened is that the GLBT "spokespersons" made noise (loud and proud?) which in turn ticked off THOUSANDS of normal thinking folks that responded by supporting the LOCAL CFA folks to PROTECT them from moron mayors that wanted to ruin and or remove their jobs. The way to get your message accross is by POSITIVE rational argument, not by "acting up" and being irrational. Support for SSM is SLOWLY gaining (now legal in 6 states and DC) so why initiate a set back by creating a CRISIS instead of simply (and stupidly) saying that Mr. Cathy is not allowed to hold his opinion but YOU are? Is that not your basic argument? That since you are for SSM so you get to speak (and support ads that get your message out) but that Mr. Cathy and those that see GLBT as a disease, affront to god or a mental problem are not allowed to hold their views or speak publically about them.

Valid point. I agree.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

What is it that you want? This thread asks the simple question, what has been accomplished by this nonsense? Where is your answer? Is your presence in this thread merely to attack me out of your own sense of personal animosity? Feel free! Please, come into a thread in which I open up and admit that I have been hurt by how both sides have conducted themselves in this debacle and attack me for doing so! Show everyone the rationality and decency that this situation has bestowed within people.

I didn't think your OP was anything other than coming straight from your heart.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

It is over. The progressive politicians who made empty threats to block CFA restaurants in their cities backed down the moment people from their own side chastised them for it. The big Appreciation day set up by Huckabee brought large crowds to CFA restaurants across the country. The counter protesting kiss-ins attracted some press but little notice.

But what has been accomplished?

As a gay individual I have to say I am hurt. I'm hurt by thousands of individuals coming to support a restaurant that donates money to hate groups. I'm hurt by people who supposedly support my dream of attaining marriage rights acting out in childish and bigoted ways such as belittling CFA employees, vandalizing franchises, and acting insufferable. I'm hurt that gay employees of CFA have been caught in between this mess. I'm hurt that a handful of progressive politicians abused their authority and as a result the entire LGBT community is being blamed for those individuals' intolerance and ineptitude.

If your goal was to hurt me and many gay and lesbian people like me then consider this all a success.

Obviously your goal wasn't protecting free speech. Buying a chicken sandwich or acting like a douche bag in no way made us a freer people. If you had wanted to do that the you would have donated money to the campaigns or PACS of the opponents of the politicians who made those empty threats. Showing up to an Appreciation day set up by an anti gay politician had no affect on the handful of politicians who made those empty threats, and most backed down before Huckabee even suggested the day. If free speech had been your goal then there were many, many better ways you could have demonstrated your support. No, your real intention here was to hurt people.

Obviously your goal wasn't to bring about more tolerance. Acting as an intolerant asstard to franchise owners and employees who had nothing to do with the comments of the CFA president does not bring about equal rights or greater acceptance for the LGBT community. Declaring anyone who eats at this restaurant to be a "bigot" or who holds a different opinion on same sex marriage to be a "bigot" does not open up any dialogue on gay rights. No, you real intention here was to hurt people.

Nothing was accomplished. A few politicians on both sides got some photo ops and headlines on a wedge issue. Chick-Fil-A made a lot of money. And a whole hell of lot of people got to act like rebellious children.

Sure this will sound insensitive...but if you are getting your feelings hurt over what a bunch of politicians and buisness people across America are doing, and how they are exploiting press, inopportune statements, and political timing...then maybe politics isn't something you should be involved in? Honestly is it going to help you to get your feelings hurt? Politicians are souless, and buisness exists for money. What do you want? Sure that is avoiding the fact that humans with feelings are involved, but at the end of the day CFA would not make statements like that if they couldn't afford it. And not to mention what do you expect from a place that refuses to open on Sunday...EVEN THOUGH it would bring a profit? I guess at least they do have A PRINCIPLE to stand on? I don't know. End of the day it is a buisness. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But as for you:

What was accomplished? Money. Political pandering from the left. Political pandering from the right. If you are looking for moral guidance from a party line...you are looking in the wrong place.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Sure this will sound insensitive...but if you are getting your feelings hurt over what a bunch of politicians and buisness people across America are doing, and how they are exploiting press, inopportune statements, and political timing...then maybe politics isn't something you should be involved in? Honestly is it going to help you to get your feelings hurt? Politicians are souless, and buisness exists for money. What do you want? Sure that is avoiding the fact that humans with feelings are involved, but at the end of the day CFA would not make statements like that if they couldn't afford it.

What was accomplished? Money. Political pandering from the left. Political pandering from the right. If you are looking for moral guidance from a party line...you are looking in the wrong place.

It is easy to allow ourselves to be manipulated into hurting others out of the joy of doing what we feel is right at the time. Regardless of whether I'm involved in politics or not, I would be affected by these actions, and nothing is harmed by sharing my feelings in this manner.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Somebody who is supporting bigotry against gay people might seem like a perfectly nice person in regular life, they might volunteer for charities and just be a pleasure to be around. But that's always been true of everything. Back when lots of people opposed equal rights for black people, I'm sure many of those people were just as nice and charitable and likeable as the folks who are now opposing equal rights for gay people. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it not bigotry. It is bigotry. A person has a moral obligation to continually be seeking out bigotry they are carrying around and address it. People that oppose equal rights for gay people are failing in that regard. They need to do better and they need to be made aware that what they are doing is not acceptable.

This isn't some small thing. Millions of people are being oppressed right here in our country. They are denied equal rights. Maybe more importantly, the stigma that they are spreading leads to thousands of children committing suicide every year when they find out that they are gay. It leads to thousands, or more likely tens of thousands, of violent hate crimes each year. It is a serious problem that they are causing and it needs to be addressed.

And many more millions don't accept the idea of SSM. This doesn't make them bigots. These hate crimes you're referring to? These aren't committed by otherwise-law-abiding citizens. These are committed by thugs. Social change...morality changes...take time. The cause of GLBT's is not advanced by calling those who don't move fast enough bigots and hate mongers. What the movement probably needs? Someone like MLK. Who is their spokesperson, by the way? Do they have a MLK? GLBT's refer to this as a civil rights issue. Why don't they have one?

Their gay rights parades? I'm sorry, but they come off like idiots. (At least the ones here in Chicago do.) MLK didn't have his marchers dressing like Aunt Jamima ya' know.

 

[digsbe]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

What was accomplished was that the American people do not take it lightly when government wants to punish a business over the CEO's opinion.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

What was accomplished was that the American people do not take it lightly when government wants to punish a business over the CEO's opinion.

That makes no sense.

How have those handful of government officials been punished for their misdeeds? They got their headlines. They pleased their bankrollers. They exploited the LGBT community to their own ends. And it is likely that they never intended to follow through on their threats.