What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins?

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Government decides on how much they want to take and if you are lucky you get a vote. Lets see how much that changes the argument you are facing. *Measuring* None. Ok, so its none. The argument was that the funds are being put towards helping individuals with the use of other peoples property. Taxes are to be used towards the protection of our are rights and liberties , but giving jim bob here getting food on my dime doesn't do that, does it?

Again, there is no "other people's money" involved. All the people decide how much money we'll put in and what we'll use it for. If Americans were voting what to do with Canadians' money, you would have a point. But they aren't. We're deciding what to do with our own money. And one of the things that we choose to invest something like 2% of the money we chip in on is poverty amelioration. We are stupid to only invest that little. The country as a whole would be much richer, the companies much more profitable, etc, if we could knock out poverty like they've more or less done in most of the rest of the first world.

Do you have any idea how much we spend on the poor and how much we get out? By any measurement that is not a good investment. You simply do NOT measure your overall investment by one hour of growth when the overall growth is nonexistent from such an investment. You clearly have no idea how much of this works.

Yeah, we spend $14 billion a year on actual welfare- TANF, about $40 billion on food stamps and about $8 billion on WIC. So, that's $62 billion a year on the core poverty amelioration programs. There are 46 million people in poverty in the US. So, that's about $1,500 per person in poverty per year.

Again, get one person out of poverty and we gain $3 million in GDP.

Are you telling me that you think $1,500 is too much to spend to try to get $3 million? What kind of investment strategy do you follow lol?

 

[00timh]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Again, there is no "other people's money" involved. All the people decide how much money we'll put in and what we'll use it for. If Americans were voting what to do with Canadians' money, you would have a point. But they aren't. We're deciding what to do with our own money. And one of the things that we choose to invest something like 2% of the money we chip in on is poverty amelioration. We are stupid to only invest that little. The country as a whole would be much richer, the companies much more profitable, etc, if we could knock out poverty like they've more or less done in most of the rest of the first world.



Yeah, we spend $14 billion a year on actual welfare- TANF, about $40 billion on food stamps and about $8 billion on WIC. So, that's $62 billion a year on the core poverty amelioration programs. There are 46 million people in poverty in the US. So, that's about $1,500 per person in poverty per year.

Again, get one person out of poverty and we gain $3 million in GDP.

Are you telling me that you think $1,500 is too much to spend to try to get $3 million? What kind of investment strategy do you follow lol?

will you please run your math by me on this? I am somehow not getting the 3 million out of 1,500 and that you feel that we should be spending substantially more per person that is in poverty. without jobs, they will continue to be in or continue to slide back into poverty forever. We will just continue to take more tax money out of productive uses and dump it into this poverty pit. The more we spend, the worse it gets and the more people become enabled into the system and trapped by it. If the government was to go back to using tax money that promotes and creates work, that will get people out of poverty and not a dime will have to be spent on them to live in it whatsoever.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

will you please run your math by me on this? I am somehow not getting the 3 million out of 1,500 and that you feel that we should be spending substantially more per person that is in poverty. without jobs, they will continue to be in or continue to slide back into poverty forever. We will just continue to take more tax money out of productive uses and dump it into this poverty pit. The more we spend, the worse it gets and the more people become enabled into the system and trapped by it. If the government was to go back to using tax money that promotes and creates work, that will get people out of poverty and not a dime will have to be spent on them to live in it whatsoever.

Not sure what you're saying exactly. Are you assuming that the number of jobs is fixed somehow? That isn't the case of course. When more people come out of poverty you get more customers, more inventors, more qualified employees so new businesses can start up, etc.

 

[Henrin]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Again, there is no "other people's money" involved. All the people decide how much money we'll put in and what we'll use it for. If Americans were voting what to do with Canadians' money, you would have a point. But they aren't. We're deciding what to do with our own money. And one of the things that we choose to invest something like 2% of the money we chip in on is poverty amelioration. We are stupid to only invest that little. The country as a whole would be much richer, the companies much more profitable, etc, if we could knock out poverty like they've more or less done in most of the rest of the first world.

"Our money" That is your problem right there. Its not "our money", but MY ****ING MONEY! Understand that sometime. The rest of this I already faced and destroyed handily many times with you.

Yeah, we spend $14 billion a year on actual welfare- TANF, about $40 billion on food stamps and about $8 billion on WIC. So, that's $62 billion a year on the core poverty amelioration programs. There are 46 million people in poverty in the US. So, that's about $1,500 per person in poverty per year.

Again, get one person out of poverty and we gain $3 million in GDP.

Are you telling me that you think $1,500 is too much to spend to try to get $3 million? What kind of investment strategy do you follow lol?

Your math is laughable and your understanding of the actual returns on the investment are even more so.

 

[00timh]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Not sure what you're saying exactly. Are you assuming that the number of jobs is fixed somehow? That isn't the case of course. When more people come out of poverty you get more customers, more inventors, more qualified employees so new businesses can start up, etc.

Well I am not sure exactly what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that the government spend more money on those who are in poverty?

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

"Our money" That is your problem right there. Its not "our money", but MY ****ING MONEY! Understand that sometime.

No it isn't. The money you owe in taxes becomes "our money"- the people of the United States. If you think taxes are too high (lol), vote for them to be lower. If you don't like what it is being spent on, vote to spend it on something else. You get a say just like everybody else. But you can't opt out. That just isn't possible given the physical reality of the world. We all share this space together. Our lots are joined to a huge extent. So, we have to accept that some decisions are made as a group. If we went your way and decided to stop maintaining our society just to save a few bucks of taxes in the short term, we would all suffer because of that. You don't have the right to make that decision for other people. You get one vote, just like everybody else, you don't get to just dictate your personal preferences to the entire rest of the country.

The rest of this I already faced and destroyed handily many times with you.

Your math is laughable and your understanding of the actual returns on the investment are even more so.

Posters on the right lately don't seem to get that there is a difference between just saying that you think the other person is stupid and actually winning a debate against the other person. We all think everybody on the other side is stupid at this point. It's sad, but that's the reality. But just blurting that out doesn't equate to winning a debate.

 

[Henrin]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

No it isn't. The money you owe in taxes becomes "our money"- the people of the United States. If you think taxes are too high (lol), vote for them to be lower. If you don't like what it is being spent on, vote to spend it on something else. You get a say just like everybody else. But you can't opt out. That just isn't possible given the physical reality of the world. We all share this space together. Our lots are joined to a huge extent. So, we have to accept that some decisions are made as a group. If we went your way and decided to stop maintaining our society just to save a few bucks of taxes in the short term, we would all suffer because of that. You don't have the right to make that decision for other people. You get one vote, just like everybody else, you don't get to just dictate your personal preferences to the entire rest of the country.

1. It is my property that they stole and it STILL belongs to me. When they abuse me further by misusing funds to go towards personal needs that is STILL abuse.

2. welfare has nothing at all to do with maintaining anything. Look up that history that you want to ignore you fail at understanding.

3. So basically I can't get myself to not be abused by people like you, so just accept the abuse. Great argument dude.

Posters on the right lately don't seem to get that there is a difference between just saying that you think the other person is stupid and actually winning a debate against the other person. We all think everybody on the other side is stupid at this point. It's sad, but that's the reality. But just blurting that out doesn't equate to winning a debate.

Do the math in your head again there little buddy.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

1. It is my property that they stole and it STILL belongs to me. When they abuse me further by misusing funds to go towards personal needs that is STILL abuse.

2. welfare has nothing at all to do with maintaining anything. Look up that history that you want to ignore you fail at understanding.

3. So basically I can't get myself to not be abused by people like you, so just accept the abuse. Great argument dude.



Do the math in your head again there little buddy.

You're not presenting arguments really. These are just a list of conclusions. There isn't really any point in playing the "not, YOU'RE the one who is wrong!" game.

 

[RamFel]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Where do you live RamFel? I'm just guessing here, but I'm going to guess that you live in some small town in a red state and never actually interact with any openly gay people, and that that is why you have these bizarre ideas about them. Am I right?

The stuff you're spouting off was like what less informed people thought about gay people 30 years ago man. It's just silly talk. You need to branch out man because you've become an anachronism. And your failure to stay in touch with reality is harming innocent people.

Oh, I see. You're from a big city, and by some logic, you think that makes you more informed. Before I reveal where I'm from, I want to ask you a question. What makes you "more informed" just because you're from a big city? I think you're full of yourself.

What are you talking about? Insulting minorities? Dude, gay people are a minority. They're a demographic group just like anybody else. They're people. They aren't any worse or better than any other group. This disgusting bigotry you are expressing is just despicable man. You need to try to make yourself into a better person.

Oh, how so? Just how are they minorities? What are the requirements for minority status? Really, I want to know how that works.

And as for your unfounded accusation of bigotry, I fail to see how being disgusted with repugnant behavior can be in any way confused with bigotry. I deny your accusation.

You have a lot of gay guys like having sex on your lawn all the time do you?

Oh, I guess that must be big city sarcasm.

Of course you do. Again, I see straight couples kissing and whatnot far, far, far, more often than gay couples doing the same thing. And there isn't anything wrong with it in either case.

No, I don't. If you read more carefully, I said that straights don't flaunt themselves "to the extent" that gays do. Gays are more brazen.

Your little notion that sometimes you see somebody you think is gay and they look at you story is just asinine.

Yeah, well, I think you're view of gays being "just like everybody else" sounds pretty naive. Is that part of being from the big city? I thought big city people were well informed. Is the acceptance of gays supposed to be "hip", and "with it"? You mentioned my being less informed, but I think I have a realistic view of the situation but I think the less informed one here, is you.

What happened to you?

No, there is no demographic group that we should not tolerate. Bigotry against any demographic group is evil.

I don't see it that way. There are always limits, and you don't have to tolerate the shameful and tasteless. There's a time and place for everything, and gays have to practice a little common sense and discretion.

Bigotry is evil, that's true. But perhaps you had better explain how my not wanting to see gays openly flaunting their sexuality in public is bigotry.

Now, do you want to know what little hick town I'm from?

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Oh, I see. You're from a big city, and by some logic, you think that makes you more informed. Before I reveal where I'm from, I want to ask you a question. What makes you "more informed" just because you're from a big city? I think you're full of yourself.

Well, more informed about gay people obviously. You are exposed to far more people in a city... Obviously... You seem to be shockingly lacking in exposure to gay people. You have all these bizarre stereotypes in your head that nobody has believed for 20 years. I don't know if that is because you're from a small town or what your problem is. That's what I am trying to figure out.

Oh, how so? Just how are they minorities? What are the requirements for minority status? Really, I want to know how that works.

Er, what? A minority is a demographic group that is not the majority of the country. You know that.

And as for your unfounded accusation of bigotry, I fail to see how being disgusted with repugnant behavior can be in any way confused with bigotry. I deny your accusation.

LOL. You "deny it"? Kiddo, you don't understand. It's something you are doing right here on this thread. You are engaging in bigotry as overtly as I can imagine anybody doing it right in front of me. That isn't some kind of speculation. It's right there in black and white.

This is just pathetic RamFel. You're like some 100 year old man ranting about how he knows for a fact that "them Orientals" have tails or something. You need to get your act together.

 

[RamFel]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Well, more informed about gay people obviously. You are exposed to far more people in a city... Obviously... You seem to be shockingly lacking in exposure to gay people. You have all these bizarre stereotypes in your head that nobody has believed for 20 years. I don't know if that is because you're from a small town or what your problem is. That's what I am trying to figure out.

I know about gays more than you think. I'm from an even bigger city than yours. New York. I grew up in Harlem. I know very well how they act, thus my aversion to them.

Er, what? A minority is a demographic group that is not the majority of the country. You know that.

Yes, I know that very well. But you're making the mistake of lumping them in with real minorities. But gays are composed of all races. I know that "you know" that they're not a race of people. They're just into sex and being into sex does not qualify you for minority status. Grouping them in with minorities is just crazy, and an insult. Try to be more careful.

LOL. You "deny it"? Kiddo, you don't understand. It's something you are doing right here on this thread. You are engaging in bigotry as overtly as I can imagine anybody doing it right in front of me. That isn't some kind of speculation. It's right there in black and white.

So yes, of course, since I understand it (apparently better than you), I deny it.

This is just pathetic RamFel. You're like some 100 year old man ranting about how he knows for a fact that "them Orientals" have tails or something. You need to get your act together.

Oh, I think I know this topic better than you. I don't know what the problem is, but I think someone is feeding you a bunch of nonsense and you're listening to them. You have to learn what I learned a long time ago. Learn to think for yourself. Because I suspect that you are just following along with what people tell you, but you don't have any original thoughts of your own.

Cast off the shackles and free your mind.

 

[teamosil]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

Oh, I think I know this topic better than you.

No man, you don't. You're spouting some of the most backwards, ignorant, naive, nonsense I've heard anybody blurt out on this forum on the topic in a long time. And that's saying a hell of a lot. Some of the most ignorant bigots in the universe frequent this place, but even they stopped saying the garbage you're saying like a year ago. Educated people stopped tolerating that kind of crap 20 years ago now. If you really are a minority as you claim, you need to take a good long time to think this through man. 50 years ago there were people that thought you were "disgusting" and said stuff like you are. What do you think school segregation was about? Why do you think they had separate drinking fountains? They spouted the same vile stuff you are- they didn't mind black folks, they just didn't want them out in public being loud and making a scene. So long as they stayed out of sight and kept to themselves, they didn't have any issue... It is exactly the same thing and now you're the one doing it.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

RamFel, do you think if gay couples are married, it will effect how they behave in public? I mean, what is the difference whether they are married or not as far as public displays of affection are concerned? As a matter of fact, I would think that if marriage and monogamy were encouraged in the gay community, perhaps there would be less of that "flaunting" behavior that you see?

 

[Henrin]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

You're not presenting arguments really. These are just a list of conclusions. There isn't really any point in playing the "not, YOU'RE the one who is wrong!" game.

Well to be honest you are the one avoiding the moral aspects of your beliefs right now. You can pick to argue that welfare is moral or you can pick up the argument that your tax beliefs are moral. The former would call for you to conclude how its moral to use others money and use them towards individual needs of others or you can pick to argue how your tax system work is moral. Telling me I have to pay taxes or others decided it for me is not a moral argument that works towards answering either above moral question, but instead just brings up another moral question of its own.

 

[mak2]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

It seems to me the only thing accomplised by the CFA thing was millions and millions in free advertising. Well done CFA, Huckabee and Fox News.

 

[Sig]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

If your goal was to hurt me and many gay and lesbian people like me then consider this all a success.

Perhaps, it is high time you and the gay community wake up to the reality that your feelings are not the only ones that count. There are a great many heteros who feel that SSM is a rude distortion, and an uninvited encroachment, upon a long established hetero tradition. Such feelings should not be unexpected by the gay community, nor should they be flippantly disregarded as mere homophobia.

 

[joko104]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

It is over. The progressive politicians who made empty threats to block CFA restaurants in their cities backed down the moment people from their own side chastised them for it. The big Appreciation day set up by Huckabee brought large crowds to CFA restaurants across the country. The counter protesting kiss-ins attracted some press but little notice.

But what has been accomplished?

As a gay individual I have to say I am hurt. I'm hurt by thousands of individuals coming to support a restaurant that donates money to hate groups. I'm hurt by people who supposedly support my dream of attaining marriage rights acting out in childish and bigoted ways such as belittling CFA employees, vandalizing franchises, and acting insufferable. I'm hurt that gay employees of CFA have been caught in between this mess. I'm hurt that a handful of progressive politicians abused their authority and as a result the entire LGBT community is being blamed for those individuals' intolerance and ineptitude.

If your goal was to hurt me and many gay and lesbian people like me then consider this all a success.

Obviously your goal wasn't protecting free speech. Buying a chicken sandwich or acting like a douche bag in no way made us a freer people. If you had wanted to do that the you would have donated money to the campaigns or PACS of the opponents of the politicians who made those empty threats. Showing up to an Appreciation day set up by an anti gay politician had no affect on the handful of politicians who made those empty threats, and most backed down before Huckabee even suggested the day. If free speech had been your goal then there were many, many better ways you could have demonstrated your support. No, your real intention here was to hurt people.

Obviously your goal wasn't to bring about more tolerance. Acting as an intolerant asstard to franchise owners and employees who had nothing to do with the comments of the CFA president does not bring about equal rights or greater acceptance for the LGBT community. Declaring anyone who eats at this restaurant to be a "bigot" or who holds a different opinion on same sex marriage to be a "bigot" does not open up any dialogue on gay rights. No, you real intention here was to hurt people.

Nothing was accomplished. A few politicians on both sides got some photo ops and headlines on a wedge issue. Chick-Fil-A made a lot of money. And a whole hell of lot of people got to act like rebellious children.

Were you "hurt" when millions and millions voted for Obama - declaring he opposed gay marriage - and "hurt" by all the Democratic talking heads and other Democratic politicians saying the same? Or only "hurt" when it is not a Democrat saying such things?

What the hell do you care what the CEO of some company says? My God are you "hurt" easily. Did it "hurt" you when the Prez of Iran boasted of no gays in his country?

I'm totally pro legalizing gay marriage. And I think this totally artificially created protest against Chic-A-fila to cover Obama's 100% reversal on himself is pitiful and shameful on the gay rights movement. Not to be chicken, but instead to be used and misused sheep.

That call to protest Chic-A-Fila made that man $10,000,000 in his pocket in increased sales. Does that "hurt" you that the Democratic partisan motivated protest predictably earned him millions of dollars?

 

[joko104]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

No man, you don't. You're spouting some of the most backwards, ignorant, naive, nonsense I've heard anybody blurt out on this forum on the topic in a long time. And that's saying a hell of a lot. Some of the most ignorant bigots in the universe frequent this place, but even they stopped saying the garbage you're saying like a year ago. Educated people stopped tolerating that kind of crap 20 years ago now. If you really are a minority as you claim, you need to take a good long time to think this through man. 50 years ago there were people that thought you were "disgusting" and said stuff like you are. What do you think school segregation was about? Why do you think they had separate drinking fountains? They spouted the same vile stuff you are- they didn't mind black folks, they just didn't want them out in public being loud and making a scene. So long as they stayed out of sight and kept to themselves, they didn't have any issue... It is exactly the same thing and now you're the one doing it.

I suspect that I "know more about gays" than you, and your flaming insults at Ramfel isn't persuasive nor helpful.

 

[RamFel]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

RamFel, do you think if gay couples are married, it will effect how they behave in public? I mean, what is the difference whether they are married or not as far as public displays of affection are concerned? As a matter of fact, I would think that if marriage and monogamy were encouraged in the gay community, perhaps there would be less of that "flaunting" behavior that you see?

I don't really think it will affect me personally. I may never run into any sort of problem. I'm just sad to see it happen, because people are being lied to. I think in the end, you'll get what you want and whatever you wind up with will be well deserved.

My only consolation is that at least I am not being reeled in hook, line, and sinker.

 

[RamFel]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

No man, you don't. You're spouting some of the most backwards, ignorant, naive, nonsense I've heard anybody blurt out on this forum on the topic in a long time. And that's saying a hell of a lot. Some of the most ignorant bigots in the universe frequent this place, but even they stopped saying the garbage you're saying like a year ago. Educated people stopped tolerating that kind of crap 20 years ago now. If you really are a minority as you claim, you need to take a good long time to think this through man. 50 years ago there were people that thought you were "disgusting" and said stuff like you are. What do you think school segregation was about? Why do you think they had separate drinking fountains? They spouted the same vile stuff you are- they didn't mind black folks, they just didn't want them out in public being loud and making a scene. So long as they stayed out of sight and kept to themselves, they didn't have any issue... It is exactly the same thing and now you're the one doing it.

Oh, yes, I think I do.

And, by the way, gays are NOT a minority.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

I don't really think it will affect me personally. I may never run into any sort of problem. I'm just sad to see it happen, because people are being lied to. I think in the end, you'll get what you want and whatever you wind up with will be well deserved.

My only consolation is that at least I am not being reeled in hook, line, and sinker.

I don't understand why. I just think that if two people love each other, it really doesn't matter, as long as they are consenting adults, but your entitled to your opinion.

 

[RamFel]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

I don't understand why. I just think that if two people love each other, it really doesn't matter, as long as they are consenting adults, but your entitled to your opinion.

You SHOULD understand why.

 

[ChrisL]

Re: What was accomplished by the Chick-fil-A threats, Appreciatoin day, and kiss ins

You SHOULD understand why.

I don't think it does anything to the sanctity of marriage, if that's what you're implying.