Up to 2000 British girls undergo horror of genital mutilation this summer

[Laila]

It sounds then like the most effective means of ending this practice is to get the community elders onboard. They will surely be more persuasive to those of their own culture than any legal prohibition passed by the British government.

If the Elders were on board, then yes. It would drastically reduce it considering their influence in certain communities that still have a clan system is more persuasive.
It is usually Grandmothers as well that are the biggest barrier in my experience. They are the ones most determined to continue the tradition.

But almost no one in UK Government or Councils approach the Elders when it comes to this issue.

 

[mikhail]

If the Elders were on board, then yes. It would drastically reduce it considering their influence in certain communities that still have a clan system is more persuasive.
It is usually Grandmothers as well that are the biggest barrier in my experience. They are the ones most determined to continue the tradition.

But almost no one in UK Government or Councils approach the Elders when it comes to this issue.

I disagree in my experience younger muslims tend often to be more radical than their parents.Not always the case but i would say the biggest problem when it comes to Islam is angry young men (in know thats a bit off topic)

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I guess Britan's "being unashamed about sex and their bodies" isn't really working out for them very well, then - seeing as how parents are going to such extreme measures to ensure virginity is kept intact.

Female circumcision and male circumcision are equally horrible. I don't see why it's okay to mutilate a baby boy's genitals by removing delicate, highly innervated foreskin, yet it's the end of the world when a woman's clitoris is attacked. Both practices originate with ensuring chastity and discouraging masturbation as well as sexual gratification.

So you don't know the purpose of the clitoris or the purpose of the foreskin?

Removing the clitoris prevents orgasms - forever.

Removing the foreskin doesn't prevent orgasm and can be done as a real procedure with anesthesia. . . the only thing 'brutal' about it is that it's done without anesthesia in infancy.

All of mine have been circumcised as a REGULAR surgery - thus - no trauma and no memory, either. . .and they can still orgasm when it comes time for them to explore that in the future.

 

[Andalublue]

I guess Britan's "being unashamed about sex and their bodies" isn't really working out for them very well, then - seeing as how parents are going to such extreme measures to ensure virginity is kept intact.

You think this is a British thing, do you? Female and intersexual genital mutilation in North America and Europe

Removing the foreskin doesn't prevent orgasm and can be done as a real procedure with anesthesia. . . the only thing 'brutal' about it is that it's done without anesthesia in infancy.

And without consultation with the victim. How many kids grow up to reject their religious background? You don't think that in later life they might like to have had a say in whether they were mutilated or not? Whether or not that mutilation prevented or enhanced the quality of their orgasm? Circumcision should be a voluntary act carried out on a willing victim, fully cognisant of the pros and cons of the procedure. Tail docking and ear-cutting of dogs has been outlawed in most countries. Why are baby boys and pubescent girls and boys not offered the same protection?

 

[Laila]

I guess Britan's "being unashamed about sex and their bodies" isn't really working out for them very well, then - seeing as how parents are going to such extreme measures to ensure virginity is kept intact

Has nothing to do with British culture or attitude to sex, this is outdated traditions brought with some communities and is present in many countries in the world
:roll:

 

[kaya'08]

Female circumcision and male circumcision are equally horrible. I don't see why it's okay to mutilate a baby boy's genitals by removing delicate, highly innervated foreskin, yet it's the end of the world when a woman's clitoris is attacked. Both practices originate with ensuring chastity and discouraging masturbation as well as sexual gratification.

Firstly, i have been circumcised and i can assure you sex/masturbation remains great.
Surgery in general is painful and involves mutilation, so circumcision is no different or exceptionally "cruel".
Secondly, the surgery provides its purpose and that is to protect the child from diseases, STI's and other illnesses that can accumilate in the foreskin of a penis.

Quiet simply there is nothing cruel or unnatural about it, and while there are millions of nerve endings on the penis alone, loosing a few thousand from the foreskin makes very little difference.

Circumcised boys are not uncomfortable or in pain as adults, yet female circumcision is very different (if im not mistaken Jews do this btw). During sexual intercourse i believe the vagina basically, rips. So yeah, there is a difference.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Secondly, the surgery provides its purpose and that is to protect the child from diseases, STI's and other illnesses that can accumilate in the foreskin of a penis.

That would be great, if it weren't absolute bull****.

Safe sex and basic hygiene will take care all of that.

 

[kaya'08]

Yawn.

BOTH are forms of genital mutilation.

Should not be imposed on ANYONE.

Period.

End of story.

There's nothing to argue about here.

How about jabs to protect children from illnesses? Because the kid is not consenting, that is ok? I'm sorry, but sometimes children do not know what's best.
In my opinion, having a common procedure as circumcision to stop illness is a good thing.

No, it doesn't force you to stay a virgin.
No, it doesn't stop making sex feel good.
No, it doesn't make a drastic difference.

 

[kaya'08]

That would be great, if it weren't absolute bull****.

Safe sex and basic hygiene will take care all of that.

Your calling factual scientific data bull****?
Basic hygiene or not, the penis remains the area with the most bacteria, ESPECIALLY on non-circumcised penises.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

No, it doesn't stop making sex feel good.
No, it doesn't make a drastic difference.

Oh, really?

Male circumcision, the most commonly performed surgery in the USA, removes 33 - 50% of the penile skin, as well as nearly all of the penile fine touch neuroreceptors. To date no study has investigated whether this dramatic alteration in the male genitalia affects the sexual pleasure experienced by the female partner or whether a woman can physically discern the difference between a penis with a foreskin. The impact that male circumcision has on the overall sexual experience for either partner is unknown.

Male Circumcision and Sexual Enjoyment of the Female Partner

:lol:

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Your calling factual scientific data bull****?
Basic hygiene or not, the penis remains the area with the most bacteria, ESPECIALLY on non-circumcised penises.

No, I'm calling your underlying premise bull****.

Why don't we cut off people's hands? That should solve a whole bunch of hygiene problems, I'm sure.

 

[Andalublue]

How about jabs to protect children from illnesses? Because the kid is not consenting, that is ok? I'm sorry, but sometimes children do not know what's best.
In my opinion, having a common procedure as circumcision to stop illness is a good thing.

No, it doesn't force you to stay a virgin.
No, it doesn't stop making sex feel good.
No, it doesn't make a drastic difference.

Kaya, I don't think male circumcision is such a big deal, but it certainly has nothing to do with protection from disease, not in this day and age. My father certainly taught me how to maintain proper personal hygiene. No, it's about religious rites of passage and maintenance of traditions. Were it as drastic, painful and debilitating as female circumcision you and I would be protesting strongly against it. The main point against it in my book is that it is a medically needless procedure done involuntarily to babies fror religious purposes only, but it's not that big a deal because it doesn't prevent boys from achieving orgasm, fathering children or taking pleasure from natural sexual activity. Female circumcision does all three.

 

[1069]

No, it's about religious rites of passage and maintenance of traditions.

In the US, I don't believe it's about either of those things.
It's about aesthetics only.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

In the US, I don't believe it's about either of those things.
It's about aesthetics only.

For me (to have my fist 2 son's circ'd) was a choice of cleanliness and a problem-free future. Their sperm donor (my ex) had all sorts of problems - infections and everything else - for his entire life. That was just something I didn't want my kids to go through year after year. Now - what caused all of his problems? I don't know - but at that time he didn't have a clue, either - thus - gave me no encouragement that he'd be able to prevent those same problems. . . he didn't agree to it when they were newborn so I had it done later (when they were 8 weeks and 6 weeks).

And my husband decided to have our son circ'd - it was purely his decision. He was circ'd and didn't know how to teach a boy to care for himself while not circ'd. . . it was just that simple.

 

[digsbe]

Why is FGM not illegal in the UK yet? Why do they permit this atrocity to happen? I had a friend who gave a presentation on the damaging affects of FGM. Many of these girls will die from complications due to the mutilation, and others will die due to birth complications when they have children.

 

[Agent Ferris]

Female circumcision and male circumcision are equally horrible

If you live on planet bull**** maybe.

 

[Vader]

I'm sorry but are you equivocating the cutting off of foreskin without anesthesia to damaging the clitoris? Last time I checked both are excruciatingly painful and result in permanent damage to the genitalia.



You don't have to quote FAQ websites to me. I'm a doctor and fully aware of the medical reasons for circumcision, many of which are valid; however, aesthetic circumcision is wrong and so is religious circumcision. If we are fighting against the culture of female circumcision then we should be equally outraged that it is also happening to boys. The procedures may be different but the results are the same: permanent damage to the genitalia, loss of sensation, loss of natural function, and it is done against the will of the patient.

Religion has made male circumcision acceptable. If it weren't for that, we would all be against the unnatural practice of it. Just because it is culturally in vogue does not mean I have to be okay with it.

I agree. I dislike the idea of female circumcision because it permanetly damages the body and scars its victim for life. Male circumcision is similar but it is not the same thing. There is no valid medical reason to remove a girl's clitoris. This is a practice created by religious zealot barbarians to dominate their women and make them more subserviant.

It needs to be stopped. Any parent that allows it or elects to send a child abroad for it needs to be sent to prison for life without parole. Those from overseas who advocate such things need to be held responsible for their actions. I just do not view male circumcision in the same fashion as I do its opposite and vile brother.

I view those who carry out such a practice (female circumcision) as apes who do not deserve to be treated as human beings. If a parent is willing to allow such a thing, they need to be stripped of custody and sent to prision for all eternity.

 

[Andalublue]

Why is FGM not illegal in the UK yet? Why do they permit this atrocity to happen? I had a friend who gave a presentation on the damaging affects of FGM. Many of these girls will die from complications due to the mutilation, and others will die due to birth complications when they have children.

What makes you ask that? Of course it is illegal in the UK.

 

[Laila]

Why is FGM not illegal in the UK yet? Why do they permit this atrocity to happen? I had a friend who gave a presentation on the damaging affects of FGM. Many of these girls will die from complications due to the mutilation, and others will die due to birth complications when they have children.

It is illegal in UK. The law is just not effective and is not having an impact on this practice
I want this eradicated, I can't think of anything more disgusting to do to a child. Apart from perhaps cutting off a boys penis.

 

[alexa]

I agree. I dislike the idea of female circumcision because it permanetly damages the body and scars its victim for life. Male circumcision is similar but it is not the same thing. There is no valid medical reason to remove a girl's clitoris. This is a practice created by religious zealot barbarians to dominate their women and make them more subserviant.

It needs to be stopped. Any parent that allows it or elects to send a child abroad for it needs to be sent to prison for life without parole. Those from overseas who advocate such things need to be held responsible for their actions. I just do not view male circumcision in the same fashion as I do its opposite and vile brother.

I view those who carry out such a practice (female circumcision) as apes who do not deserve to be treated as human beings. If a parent is willing to allow such a thing, they need to be stripped of custody and sent to prision for all eternity.

I take it you did not read the thread and just came out with what you believed was your superior argument showing yourself as the superior being.

What you did show was that you condemn and want to harshly punish people without having a clue what the situation is.

It is like a mantra certain people on this forum have. Here possible Muslim, interpret barbarity. This thread has shown such people for what they are -

ignorant and hateful.

 

[Apocalypse]

I am also in the medical field in both the United States and Israel. Male circumcision is typically performed between birth and 2 months of age. Currently, around 75% of all American males undergo this minor surgical procedure. Almost 100% of all male Jewish Israelis are circumcised. There are numerous hygienic benefits to male circumcision. Although the possibility exists of elevated urinary tract infections, I have never encountered a circumcised male who complained of a loss of penile sensation/function due to circumcision.

Female Genital Cutting (FGC) was outlawed in the United States in 1996. Most FGC in the world occurs when the female "comes of age" (12-16). There are escalating degrees of FGC... 1) a simple ritual nick, 2) the removal of the entire clitoris, 3) the cutting away of the labia and 4) in extreme cases the entire genital area is carved away and the vulva is stitched shut. 2/3/4 are major invasive procedures that are extremely painful and potentially dangerous. Many young girls die from post-FGC complications such as infections or bleeding to death. The sole purpose here is to remove sexual sensation/pleasure and foster virginity.

Reading through this thread, the above is perhaps the only comment I have found to be insightful.

 

[alexa]

Reading through this thread, the above is perhaps the only comment I have found to be insightful.

Indeed the US did consider condoning some mutilation of girls bodies under law

FOR a group dedicated to the health and well-being of children to advocate the cutting of girls’ genitals seems inconceivable. But the American Academy of Paediatrics (AAP), in a review of its policy on the practice known as female circumcision, did tentatively ask if, in order to avoid the most dangerous behaviour, doctors should be allowed to perform some kind of “ritual cut” in the clitoral skin. The academy likened it to ear-piercing and said that it might satisfy the cultural requirements of people wedded to the practice.

After a chorus of condemnation the AAP swiftly released a new statement, anxiously stressing that it does not endorse “clitoral nicks”. Judith Palfrey, the group’s president, says there is absolutely no case for it and that doctors must oppose all forms of genital cutting on girls. The academy’s British and Australian counterparts, and the UN, have voiced a similar position.

Female genital cutting: Ending a brutal practice | The Economist

Legalising the mutilation of girls genitals is not something I would consider insightful and is completely unnecessary. As Laila has shown education of new immigrants unaware that this practice is an ancient tribal one and nothing to do with Islam and further something which can damage their daughter's fertility and cause other medical problems is what is need to stop this practice carried out by well meaning women with wrong information.

The same article also deals with the mutilation of male genitalia

The weakest point for the critics of cutting girls’ genitals is that it is still so prevalent where boys are concerned. No laws exist against male circumcision in any Western country. No records are kept of circumcisions performed outside of hospitals and there is no regulation of ritual practitioners. The AAP took a neutral stance on male circumcision when it last considered the practice in 1999. The policy is up for review in the next year or so. Supporters of it may note that male circumcision is unlikely to lead to, or provide cover for, the extreme mutilation that happens too often with female cutting. Many also believe that male circumcision is helpful in slowing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Ms Davis argues that in America at least, it is not acceptable to criminalise all female genital cutting while adopting a relaxed stance to the male sort. She suspects that by allowing male circumcision while forbidding even a symbolic cut on girls, Western countries show respect for only those religious and cultural practices with which they are already comfortable.

Female genital cutting: Ending a brutal practice | The Economist

Are you suggesting you believe it is insightful to continue circumcision of girls in order to justify it being carried on on boys.

I look forward to male circumcision being banned along with female circumcision and men being taught proper hygiene.

 

[Apocalypse]

Are you suggesting you believe it is insightful to continue circumcision of girls in order to justify it being carried on on boys.

Why would you even imply that? Where in the one single post that I've posted in this thread have I claimed that it is insightful to continue the circumcision of girls?
As usual alexa I cannot seem to understand the way your mind thinks and behaves.
I said that Shayah's comment is the only comment in this thread that I find insightful, due to the contribution of details.

 

[alexa]

Why would you even imply that? Where in the one single post that I've posted in this thread have I claimed that it is insightful to continue the circumcision of girls?
As usual alexa I cannot seem to understand the way your mind thinks and behaves.
I said that Shayah's comment is the only comment in this thread that I find insightful, due to the contribution of details.

Because you claimed that was a only post in this thread that you found insightful and that was what it was discussing. However please note that was a question and a logical question in respect to what you felt was insightful.

That you did not find Laila's posts insightful amazes me.

 

[Andalublue]

That you did not find Laila's posts insightful amazes me.

Laila's not one of Apo's buddies, hence...