Up to 2000 British girls undergo horror of genital mutilation this summer

[Apocalypse]

Because you claimed that was a only post in this thread that you found insightful and that was what it was discussing. However please note that was a question and a logical question in respect to what you felt was insightful.

Doesn't seem like you've read Shayah's comment.
You claim it was promoting female circumcision, however it was not, it was merely describing the medical results of male and female circumcisions, that's all.

That you did not find Laila's posts insightful amazes me.

Inisghtful as in contributing factual evidence on the subject, not as describing a personal experience.

Laila's not one of Apo's buddies, hence...

Actually Laila is one of the better posters here in my opinion and I tend to make that clear.
However I am on zero tolerance mode today, so do consider your insightful remark on my relations with another poster here reported.

 

[Agent Ferris]

I take it you did not read the thread and just came out with what you believed was your superior argument showing yourself as the superior being.

What you did show was that you condemn and want to harshly punish people without having a clue what the situation is.

It is like a mantra certain people on this forum have. Here possible Muslim, interpret barbarity. This thread has shown such people for what they are -

ignorant and hateful.

Ya those people who support female genital mutilation.

 

[alexa]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...utilation-summer-2.html#post1058877004Doesn't seem like you've read Shayah's comment.
You claim it was promoting female circumcision, however it was not, it was merely describing the medical results of male and female circumcisions, that's all.

I confess I was so surprised at you feeling the need to point out it was the most insightful post on the thread when it is simply practical information that I confused it with her post 13.

I have read every post on this thread, otherwise I when skimming and seeing the mention of the snip to female genitalia would not have mistaken it for this other post.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...nital-mutilation-summer-2.html#post1058877004

Inisghtful as in contributing factual evidence on the subject, not as describing a personal experience.

well insight is not usually a term used in respect of technical information in the Englsih speaking world. I am aware English is not your first language so that may be the problem.

Here is what the dictionary gives as the meaning of insight

1.
an instance of apprehending the true nature of a thing, esp. through intuitive understanding: an insight into 18th-century life.
2.
penetrating mental vision or discernment; faculty of seeing into inner character or underlying truth.
3.
Psychology .
a.
an understanding of relationships that sheds light on or helps solve a problem.
b.
(in psychotherapy) the recognition of sources of emotional difficulty.
c.
an understanding of the motivational forces behind one's actions, thoughts, or behavior; self-knowledge.

I don't really see how Shayah's medical knowledge expressed in that post is anything other than medical knowledge. Laila I think showed much more insight into the topic of the thread.

Anyway my apologies for mistaking the post you were replying to in my haste this morning. You are correct from that post I would have no reason to ask you the question I did, though on how this thread progressed in this thread, it is a pertinent question.

I would say I am still surprised at you finding it the most 'insightful' in the thread, though due to previous misunderstandings I am aware this may be due to translations.

 

[alexa]

Ya those people who support female genital mutilation.

Read the thread before you embarrass yourself more.

 

[Gardener]

I take it you did not read the thread and just came out with what you believed was your superior argument showing yourself as the superior being.

What you did show was that you condemn and want to harshly punish people without having a clue what the situation is.

It is like a mantra certain people on this forum have. Here possible Muslim, interpret barbarity. This thread has shown such people for what they are -

ignorant and hateful.

Yep, if you don't support the butchering of little girls, you are ignorant and hateful.

Got it.

 

[Apocalypse]

I confess I was so surprised at you feeling the need to point out it was the most insightful post on the thread when it is simply practical information that I confused it with her post 13.

I have read every post on this thread, otherwise I when skimming and seeing the mention of the snip to female genitalia would not have mistaken it for this other post.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...nital-mutilation-summer-2.html#post1058877004

Anyway my apologies for mistaking the post you were replying to in my haste this morning. You are correct from that post I would have no reason to ask you the question I did, though on how this thread progressed in this thread, it is a pertinent question.

Alright, no harm was done.

well insight is not usually a term used in respect of technical information in the Englsih speaking world. I am aware English is not your first language so that may be the problem.

Here is what the dictionary gives as the meaning of insight

Actually while English is not my first language I do believe that insightful, the posession of insight, is a term mostly used in the scientific matter, referring to the analysis of facts.
Here's the wiktionary definition:

insight (plural insights)

1. A sight or view of the interior of anything; a deep inspection or view; introspection; frequently used with into.  [quotations ▼]
* 1980, Carl Sagan, Cosmos: A Personal Voyage,

The history of our study of our solar system shows us clearly that accepted and conventional ideas are often wrong, and that fundamental insights can arise from the most unexpected sources.

2. Power of acute observation and deduction; penetration; discernment; perception.
3. (marketing) Knowledge (usually derived from consumer understanding) that a company applies in order to make a product or brand perform better and be more appealing to customers
4. The act or result of apprehending the inner nature of things or of seeing intuitively
5. (artificial intelligence) An extended understanding of a subject resulting from identification of relationships and behaviors within a model, context, or scenario.

insight - Wiktionary

 

[Laila]

Yep, if you don't support the butchering of little girls, you are ignorant and hateful.

Got it.

Almost every poster on this thread oppose FGM.
I don't know where you are getting that from as it was a response directly to Vader and was not a general comment

 

[Gardener]

Almost every poster on this thread oppose FGM.
I don't know where you are getting that from as it was a response directly to Vader and was not a general comment

Yes, I realize she was attacking Vader.

She was attacking him for actually opposing the practice rather than just offering some tepid double talk on the subject much like the M.O. established by Great Britain which has passed the law only to give the appearance of rejecting the practice, but with no real intention of enforcing it.

P.C. trumps morality once again.

 

[Laila]

I'm not going to put words in her mouth but from what I read, I believe it was his use of words like 'ape' which caused Alexa to deem it hateful and ignorant

 

[Gardener]

I'm not going to put words in her mouth but from what I read, I believe it was his use of words like 'ape' which caused Alexa to deem it hateful and ignorant

He used the term to describe those who mutilate little girls, so the appelation refers to those who engage in an action. Since the decision whether or not to mutilate girls is entirely a choice, it is only those who have made the choice to do so who are being targeted.



.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

This is a good thread. Let's strive to keep it civil and genial.

 

[Laila]

He used the term to describe those who mutilate little girls, so the appelation refers to those who engage in an action. Since the decision whether or not to mutilate girls is entirely a choice, it is only those who have made the choice to do so who are being targeted.

Well I can't speak for her as we are both speculating what she was referring to.

 

[Gardener]

Well I can't speak for her as we are both speculating what she was referring to.

I don't expect you to speak for her.

One person is not responsible for what another person says even though they might occasionally be put in such a position by another.

 

[alexa]

I'm not going to put words in her mouth but from what I read, I believe it was his use of words like 'ape' which caused Alexa to deem it hateful and ignorant

Thank you Laila. You are quite correct that no one in this thread has approved FGM. I have indeed made it clear that in no way would I support even the minimal snipping which is apparently more like male circumcision. Gardiner would have seen that. You are also basically right about where I had issue.

Vadar said

I view those who carry out such a practice (female circumcision) as apes who do not deserve to be treated as human beings. If a parent is willing to allow such a thing, they need to be stripped of custody and sent to prision for all eternity.

Now I took issue with this for several reasons. Firstly it has been shown on this thread that people who are doing this are ordinary human beings who through living in particular societies have passed this custom down through the ages but who when given a proper understanding of what they are doing, stop.

I find to view such people

as apes who do not deserve to be treated as human beings

offensive, particularly as it was only in the previous two pages that you had told us what the situation was in the UK.

I also saw him dismissing the entire people and unable to understand that not everyone has lived in the kind of societies we live in. It is very easy to condemn people when you are unaware of their society.

Indeed female circumcision was very common in the USA and the UK up until the 1950's albeit done with anaesthetic.

I was just surprised that having read the thread a person was unable to move from what certainly seems a hate filled view, calling a whole section of people 'apes', rather than understanding.

We all come from different societies and at some point most of us have acted in ways which are not acceptable now. These women's motivation is not to harm their children. They wrongly believe it is needed to be accepted into society as that is how it was where they lived before. Once they understand, they change.

But unfortunately even with knowledge that this is how things are some people are so in need to just throw malice that they cannot give up on it. That is what I was pointing out Vadar was doing.

 

[Erod]

I'm not going to put words in her mouth but from what I read, I believe it was his use of words like 'ape' which caused Alexa to deem it hateful and ignorant

And as liberals will do, more focus is on the word than the act. I don't care how horrific of a word you throw out, it's just a word.

 

[Gardener]

And as liberals will do, more focus is on the word than the act. I don't care how horrific of a word you throw out, it's just a word.

It's not a "liberal" thing, but it is an attempt to shift the focus from the child abuse to the reaction TO the child abuse by portraying the reaction to the child abuse as the truly egregious act instead of the child abuse, itself.

 

[Shayah]

Almost every poster on this thread oppose FGM.

Indeed. Viewed from the modernistic-Western perspective, it is a horrific and barbaric custom. Laws alone will not end this practice. Nor will prosecutions, as the location will simply change to circumvent the law and courts. Global education and counseling are the best options in our toolbox here.

Laila - I am aware that FGM does occur in your homeland and among your people. It took courage for you to broach that publicly. You deserve all admiration for interceding with your people and sowing the seeds of change.

:2wave:

 

[cpwill]

You might have a point were it the case that Britain hadn't made female circumcision illegal and punishable with gaol sentences.

:lol: yeah. and over here illegally immigrating is 'against the law' too. one of our states has decided to actually enforce that law, and the federal government is suing them for it. there is a big difference between law de jure and law de facto.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

So much for the 'religion of peace'.


'Clitorectomies' they're called: http://www.islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=540&catid=192&Itemid=68

 

[Tashah]

So much for the 'religion of peace'.

Moderator's Warning:

You are banned from this thread for trolling. Do not post in it again.

 

[mikhail]

Indeed. Viewed from the modernistic-Western perspective, it is a horrific and barbaric custom. Laws alone will not end this practice. Nor will prosecutions, as the location will simply change to circumvent the law and courts. Global education and counseling are the best options in our toolbox here.

Laila - I am aware that FGM does occur in your homeland and among your people. It took courage for you to broach that publicly. You deserve all admiration for interceding with your people and sowing the seeds of change.

:2wave:

Who are you to define who Laila's people are i realise you sre being nice but come on why cant an individual person give an opinion without them having to be defined within a group, religion, sect etc

 

[alexa]

Alright, no harm was done



Actually while English is not my first language I do believe that insightful, the posession of insight, is a term mostly used in the scientific matter, referring to the analysis of facts.
Here's the wiktionary definition:



insight - Wiktionary

Well yes, of course intuition is one of the components of insight. Insight can come from knowing a situation and having a gut or intuitive feeling about what is needed to sort it or how it happened. It can also allow others to see things in a new way. I believe Laila did that

No disrespect to Shayah but just stating your knowledge of FGM and male circumcision does not fall under that. It lacks the deep intuitive part and can be found all over the net. What Laila said can not.

However this is not an important point. It was just that your use of the word made me feel you gave more significance to what Shayah said than you did.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Let's stop with the pettiness of who is more deserving of thanks/plaudits. The thread contributions of both Shayah and Laila are informative and well appreciated.

 

[Andalublue]

Moderator's Warning:

Let's stop with the pettiness of who is more deserving of thanks/plaudits. The thread contributions of both Shayah and Laila are informative and well appreciated.

I've got to agree with that. Both contributions were thoughtful, why debate the semantics of 'insightful' when we are discussing FGM?

I don't even think that this has anything to do with religion, despite certain posters attempting to use it as a part of their partisan hate campaigns. It's to do with ingrained traditions and their place in a modern, pluralist society. When certain practices directly conflict with fundamental ideas of the rights of the individual, there will be conflict. How to resolve those conflicts in a non-dogmatic, non-chauvinistic manner is the challenge that we all face, especially those who live in more heterogeneous communities. I would take this same position when discussing male circumcision and in the Burka debate, despite the fact that in the FGM issue there is the added factor of real, physical, life-threatening risks involved for the girls involved who have no say whatsoever in the decision-making process.

 

[Manc Skipper]

FGM predates Islam and Christianity, and occurs in communities of all faiths across the sub-saharan African continent, with a few exceptions elsewhere. Migrants from those places take the practice with them wherever they settle, including Europe and the USA. All major religious groups have spoken out against it.