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Lieberman's settlement bars Russian-Israeli families from buying homes

24107

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Settlers in Nokdim, home to Russian-born FM, fear new residents not classified as Jewish by halakhic law could corrupt local morals

The Nokdim secretariat ruled two weeks ago to bar non-Jewish Russian-Israelis from buying homes in the small Bethlehem-area settlement where Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman makes his home. The decision came after a frenzied debate between residents over whether the entry of individuals not considered Jewish by religious law would lead to "assimilation" or improper behavior on the part of veteran residents and their children.

The current fracas was sparked after a number of families of Russian origin applied to be accepted in the community. In each of the families, at least one member is not Jewish according to halakha, or religious law. Nokdim is a mixed community of religious and secular Israelis, both native and Russian-speaking, in the Gush Etzion settlement bloc southeast of Jerusalem.
After several residents expressed opposition to admitting the families, the settlement's absorption committee decided to bring up the issue at a secretariat meeting. Two weeks ago the panel decided the families' applications would be rejected.

Nokdim's secretary, Yossi Heiman, told Haaretz: "If there were an easy solution to this issue, we wouldn't have to hold hearings on it. There are many considerations both ways; there are also strong arguments in favor of accepting these families. But, ultimately, the majority decided they were opposed to such a high number of these families coming in and changing the community's demographics.

"The biggest problem is that if you accept 10 families in which the mother isn't Jewish, then soon there will be 30 children, and tomorrow your son could fall in love with the good-looking girl next door. It's a real problem," Heiman said.

"It's difficult enough with the dozens of terrorists who enter each morning," added Nokdim resident Amit Gruen, in apparent reference to Palestinians employed in home construction in the settlement.

"We have to separate ourselves from the gentiles in commerce and everything else - particularly when it comes to living with them. It could lead to assimilation or idol worship; it opens the door to all kinds of trouble. They might lead us into committing offenses that Jews normally don't do, like idolatry and incest and all kinds of other perversions. That's why we have no place for them here," he said.

"In principle, the fact that they serve in the army is a problem. They must not serve in the army - the fact that the state brought them over doesn't mean a thing. Just as it brought them over, it can send them back to their own countries," Gruen said.

Gil Gan-Mor, an attorney heading the branch on housing rights at the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, said any decision not to accept a family as residents in a community on the basis of race, religion or sex is illegal discrimination.

Lieberman's settlement bars Russian-Israeli families from buying homes - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
 

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Another example of Europeans not indiginous to the land, attempting to lay claim to historical Palestine.
 

marywollstonecraft

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Another example of Europeans not indiginous to the land, attempting to lay claim to historical Palestine.
also indicative of discrimination based on religious grounds, with some very clear statements suggesting that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage.

what exactly DOES Israel stand for?
 

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also indicative of discrimination based on religious grounds, with some very clear statements suggesting that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage.

what exactly DOES Israel stand for?
Actually the majority of Israeli Jews today are secular. Problems like this crop up due to the enormous influence of religious leaders in the early formative years when the Basic Laws were written. As time goes on however, the views of the secular majority are gaining ground via the power of the ballot box.
 

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Obviously that is wrong.
Problem is that such settlements like the Kibutz have councils that are allowed by law to decide who will be given a residence approval inside the settlement and who will not.
The law basically gives that council a free hand to control over who they will give a residence approval to and who they will not, and from whatever reasons they'll feel like.

Their reasoning seems to be the demographics inside the settlement, since they speak about non-Jewish Russian families then those families are mainly Christian families.
 

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also indicative of discrimination based on religious grounds, with some very clear statements suggesting that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage.
That's a very nasty generalization there, you're not allowed to do that and it's borderline hate speech.
The article is speaking about a very very small community and you're making a reference to the entire group of Israeli Jews.
This generalization points at a clear illeberal behavior and even indicates on a far-right attitude, since you seek to label an entire group of people based on the action of a few.

What exactly DO you stand for?
 

Goshin

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Another example of Europeans not indiginous to the land, attempting to lay claim to historical Palestine.




It was historically Israel long before it was ever called Palestine.
 

Goshin

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also indicative of discrimination based on religious grounds, with some very clear statements suggesting that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage.

what exactly DOES Israel stand for?

Israel stands for the one place on Earth where Jews do not have to fear their own government. It is their ancient ancestral homeland and theirs by both right and current possession. They are there to stay; get used to it.



I am not Jewish, but if these people in the kibbutz wish to live among their own kind and are not breaking the law, I don't have a problem with it. It appears to me to be an internal Israeli matter, so let the Israeli's decide how to handle it.
 

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It was historically Israel long before it was ever called Palestine.
It was historically Canaan, long before it was ever called ''Israel".
 

Goshin

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It was historically Canaan, long before it was ever called ''Israel".

I am aware of this. Nonetheless it is now Israel, and Israel it will remain.
 

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I am aware of this. Nonetheless it is now Israel, and Israel it will remain.
It was Israel before. It was also part of many Arab empires. It was part of the Byzantine Empire. At one point it was a British territory. For half a millenium it was Ottoman territory. Before that, the Malmuks were in control for a few centuries. It was part of the Crusader Kingdoms for many different periods of time.

To say that it will remain Israel is to ignore the region's history. Who's to say what the region will be in 50 years? 100? 500? Will it be a bigger Israel? A giant Arab state? Exactly as it is now? A nuclear wasteland? Part of an enslaved human race subjugated to superior alien lifeforms?
 

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That's a very nasty generalization there, you're not allowed to do that and it's borderline hate speech.
The article is speaking about a very very small community and you're making a reference to the entire group of Israeli Jews.
This generalization points at a clear illeberal behavior and even indicates on a far-right attitude, since you seek to label an entire group of people based on the action of a few.

What exactly DO you stand for?
bull****.

that is not anti semitism at all. This material SUGGESTS that.

if this is untrue, rather than attacking me - why don't you provide something concrete to counter it? or at least demonstrate that this is NOT indicative of Israeli Jews, but of a minority.

take your insults and shove them up your arse.
 

marywollstonecraft

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Israel stands for the one place on Earth where Jews do not have to fear their own government. It is their ancient ancestral homeland and theirs by both right and current possession. They are there to stay; get used to it.



I am not Jewish, but if these people in the kibbutz wish to live among their own kind and are not breaking the law, I don't have a problem with it. It appears to me to be an internal Israeli matter, so let the Israeli's decide how to handle it.
these are the same claims made about Islamic communities.

are you saying it is OK for jews, but not for Muslims?

Of course, there are always cases where preference or exclusion can be given on religious grounds - but when it comes to moving into a neighbourhood - is that OK in a so called democratic society?

I'd like to see someone in any other so called democracy say - we won't allow Jews/Muslims/Christians/Cninese/blacks etc to live in this neighbourhood.

would it be acceptable in the US?
 

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I am aware of this. Nonetheless it is now Israel, and Israel it will remain.
You are aware of that but you go on choosing only one part in milleniums of history when the land was called Israel and disregard all the before and after. How convenient is that ?
 

alexa

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Israel stands for the one place on Earth where Jews do not have to fear their own government.

.
Are you suggesting Jews are in some danger from the US government?
 

donsutherland1

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also indicative of discrimination based on religious grounds, with some very clear statements suggesting that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage.

what exactly DOES Israel stand for?
A specific settlement constitutes only a small slice of Israel's population. To assume that the settlement's policies reflect those of all of Israel's Jewish people is a vast overgeneralization. The comment about excluding non-Jewish people from economic participation and the military is also incorrect.
 

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bull****.

that is not anti semitism at all. This material SUGGESTS that.

if this is untrue, rather than attacking me - why don't you provide something concrete to counter it? or at least demonstrate that this is NOT indicative of Israeli Jews, but of a minority.

take your insults and shove them up your arse.
What the hell?
Here is what you've stated, and I quote:
"Israeli Jews wish to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage."
You've made a generalization, perhpas on the opinion of a very small minority (I do not even know who the hell you are referring to with those accusations), and have attributed those attitudes to an entire group of people (Israeli Jews).
Are you really asking me to prove to you that not all of the Israeli Jews are following such opinions? Do you even realize how wrong and immoral what you're saying here is?
By all means, take your own racism and shove it up your own goddamned arse.
 
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Apocalypse

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these are the same claims made about Islamic communities.

are you saying it is OK for jews, but not for Muslims?

Of course, there are always cases where preference or exclusion can be given on religious grounds - but when it comes to moving into a neighbourhood - is that OK in a so called democratic society?

I'd like to see someone in any other so called democracy say - we won't allow Jews/Muslims/Christians/Cninese/blacks etc to live in this neighbourhood.

would it be acceptable in the US?
Who said it's acceptable in Israel?
 
M

morris

Would Lieberman Fleece You? The Israeli FM - video
YouTube - Would Lieberman Fleece You? Israel's FM

Does not this supremacist attitude extend beyond Israel's borders, and is it not shared by the Western financiers who support the West Bank settlements? Doesn't that mean that all percieved Goyim are second class citizens?
 

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Who said it's acceptable in Israel?
Who's opposing and how ?

(this is an honest question because I really don't know and interested in learning from someone who lives in Israel)
 

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Lierberman is a racist hardliner by which even Netanyahu has had to make political agreements without his knowledge. The guy is an idiot.
 

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Lierberman is a racist hardliner by which even Netanyahu has had to make political agreements without his knowledge. The guy is an idiot.
With respect to Lieberman being a "hard-liner", he has yet to make any extreme move since he has entered the government's office as a FM.
So far the move that was considered the most extreme made by him was that he has proposed the loyalty law, a law that wished to punish with jailtime anyone who'd act against Israel's existence as either a Jewish or a Democratic state, a law that of course didn't get passed.
 

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Who's opposing and how ?

(this is an honest question because I really don't know and interested in learning from someone who lives in Israel)
There is no indication that the public in Israel supports this attitude. I for one do not.
Likewise, there were no polls being made about this specific issue, so statistics cannot be offered.
 

kaya'08

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With respect to Lieberman being a "hard-liner", he has yet to make any extreme move since he has entered the government's office as a FM.
So far the move that was considered the most extreme made by him was that he has proposed the loyalty law, a law that wished to punish with jailtime anyone who'd act against Israel's existence as either a Jewish or a Democratic state, a law that of course didn't get passed.
How about this current racist law we are currently discussing? Are you denying he is a hard liner?
 
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