Lieberman's settlement bars Russian-Israeli families from buying homes

[Mira]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

So, saying that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others is not the same as saying that Isreali Jews wish to preserve their separateness from others.
Yes, I completely understand.
Yes because I didn't state in my first post here that I am against this policy, and merely because I am against your racism it makes me a supporter of it, I understand completely.

Apocalypse, you know very well that Mary is neither racist nor anti-Semitic. You are just using the good old technique that you and your friends are used to bringing out when you are unable to face a debate.
Making a poster angry and force her to leave doesn't mean that we haven't noticed that you're using your agressive card again.

 

[marywollstonecraft]

Forgive me for finding way more sense in the fact that by saying "Israeli Jews" she has indeed referred to the general group of "Israeli Jews", since she has even later on asked me to base the claim that not all of the Israeli Jews follow the attitudes of this small minority of Settlers.
As don stated, that was an over-generalization made by her.

Being new to the forum doesn't mean being new to this world.
If she was a 12 years old, I'll explain it to her, since she isn't, she's old enough to know that people's attitudes are not declared by their races.
Now I hope you understand how wrong you were and see that I was actually criticizing real and existing racism from this poster.

this is rude, dishonest and apersonal attack.

you are well aware that I never made any statement concerning ALL Israelis, and you are well awar ethat you quoted my post out of context. .

 

[Apocalypse]

This particular article was talking about different type of Israeli's one of them was Israeli Jews. She calimed to be responding to the article. If I as a teacher were to give that article to my class and ask them to discuss it, I would not see one of them referring to Israeli Jews as racism.

Which is bad, because as I said, referring attitudes to an entire group of people based on the action of a few is ridiculously racist.

It does not say that all Israel Jews support it but it does contain some material and attitudes which a lot of us would find totally unacceptable if it were being tried in our own countries

But then again, using your logic, there is no proof that you folks would have been against it if it happened in your countries, and using the article, there is every indication that the Israeli public is in its majority against it.

to quote just one. These were the things she picked up to. In just the same way as you responded to her emotionally, she no doubt responded to the article emotionally. The values presented there are very far from ours.

That fails to justify her resort to racism.
If I see an article where an Arab person is saying that Israelis should be murdered, by no means am I going to say that "Arabs support anti-Israeli terrorism". I may even say that a big portion of the Arab world supports terrorism, but to say that "Arabs support terrorism" is to make a racist statement and you know it far too well for me to be naive enough and not realize what the reasons for your defensive attitude towards this act of racism are.

Indeed she ought to have said the majority if she was being exact.

And that would be baseless as well.

I am well aware Apocalypse that Israel has good people working towards civil rights for all. However Mary**** being new to the forum might not.

But as I said she isn't new to this world.

This is just a little footnote. Yes her argument required correction but the article also contained emotionally explosive things. She responded as she saw at that time. Shayah and Don gave her more information on the subject, Don correctly saying that she was make a generalisation.

Yes, we've all stated that she is making generalizations, but then again I don't see your reasoning for her resort to such generalizations to be legitimate, claiming that one is saying something out of emotionalism only does to worsen his image if he is responding with racism.

No one has asked you to prove that all Israeli Jews do not have this attitude.

That's bollocks.

if this is untrue, rather than attacking me - why don't you provide something concrete to counter it? or at least demonstrate that this is NOT indicative of Israeli Jews, but of a minority.

Both Mary**** and Mira also asked whether this was being opposed by anyone. Opposition normally being what happens when people believe a situation is wrong. Saying nothing frequently meaning quiet agreement.

And yes it was opposed, it was opposed by me, it was opposed by some of the settlers in the Nokdim settlement, and it was opposed by the Israeli association for civil rights.

You accused someone of speech bordering on hate speech and racism for a mistaken understanding of an article.

For a deliberate generalization of an entire group of people. There was no mistake here, and no misunderstanding. You refuse to criticize anti-Semitism when you see it and it's very worrying.

Well you have just been over reacting to the whole thing and making a mountain out of a molehill.

That's how one is supposed to be reacting to anti-Semitism and any other form of repulsive discrimination of people based on their born attributes.

Whether Mary***** suffers from racism I would not know

I agree, you would not know, it's right in your face and you refuse to criticize it.

I have not seen enough of her posts, but to come hammering in calling someone a racist and accusing them of 'hate speech' for a generalisation, tells me more about you than her.

To protect clear actions of anti-Semitism tells more more about you than you would ever be able to tell about me and her combined.

 

[marywollstonecraft]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

So, saying that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others is not the same as saying that Isreali Jews wish to preserve their separateness from others.
Yes, I completely understand.
Yes because I didn't state in my first post here that I am against this policy, and merely because I am against your racism it makes me a supporter of it, I understand completely.

so your english language skills are too poor for you to be able to understand that by saying with some very clear statements suggesting when discussing an article is in fact NOT the same thing as me making a claim about the people being discussed?

 

[Apocalypse]

this is rude, dishonest and apersonal attack.

you are well aware that I never made any statement concerning ALL Israelis, and you are well awar ethat you quoted my post out of context. .

You were already warned by a moderator who knows very well the forum rules and has the intelligence to recognize a generalization based on a race that your early comment was indeed an act of generalization based on a race.

 

[Mira]

By the way Apocalypse, since you are such a pure and honest person and so outraged by racism. Instead of falsely accusing someone of being racist, why don't you protest when your friends incessantly post the most outrageously racist remarks against Islam and Arabs ?

 

[Apocalypse]

so your english language skills are too poor for you to be able to understand that

That's a personal attack.

by sayingwith some very clear statements suggesting when discussing an article is in fact NOT the same thing as me making a claim about the people being discussed?

No, the former simply means that you believe your views are being backed by the article "with some very serious statements" while they are not.

 

[Apocalypse]

By the way Apocalypse, since you are such a pure and honest person and so outraged by racism. Instead of falsely accusing someone of being racist, why don't you protest when your friends incessantly post the most outrageously racist remarks against Islam and Arabs ?

I never backed a racist statement in my entire life.
This is what separates me from you.

 

[Apocalypse]

Apocalypse, you know very well that Mary is neither racist nor anti-Semitic. You are just using the good old technique that you and your friends are used to bringing out when you are unable to face a debate.

Mira,

The generalization of an entire group of people based on their race is indeed racism.

Thank you.

 

[Mira]

I never backed a racist statement in my entire life.
This is what separates me from you.

Not protesting is agreeing. Funny how all these people who are openly racist on this forum are your friends and you thank them right, left and centre.
That is what separates me from you.

 

[Zyphlin]

Moderator's Warning:

The personal attacks, specifically the insinuation that another poster is "racist" or an "anti-semite" needs to end. If you wish to make an argument you may, however make it without attacking or flaming the poster. This goes equally for insinuations if illiteracy or other mental deficiencies. If it continues thread bans and points will ensue

 

[marywollstonecraft]

Apocalypse, you know very well that Mary is neither racist nor anti-Semitic. You are just using the good old technique that you and your friends are used to bringing out when you are unable to face a debate.
Making a poster angry and force her to leave doesn't mean that we haven't noticed that you're using your agressive card again.

Thanks Mira.

I believe that people need to stand up and call foul when people start using the "antisemitism" card inappropriately.

I have recently been on a forum which appeared to be invaded by a wave of neonazi types, posting picture after picture of "evidence" thatthe holocaust never happened, using all kinds of arguments to justify the "great Jewish consiracy", those who publish lie after lie about Jews - digging up some of the oldest tricks in the book.

posters like Apocalypse are not interested in that. they would prefer to attack people who are critical of racism, or critical of Israeli policies that negatively impact on others.

What people like Apocalypse don't realise is that they are the best friend a true anti semite has.

 

[Apocalypse]

also indicative of discrimination based on religious grounds, with some very clear statements suggesting that Israeli Jews wsh to preserve their separateness from others, to the extent of excluding them from business relationships, from the army (hmmm - reminds me a bit of the complaints against Islam), and also preventing intermarriage.

what exactly DOES Israel stand for?

I am done with this racism fiasco, I'm simply going to report this post to the mods on grounds of hate speech and racism, and let them decide.

Edit: I now see Zyphlin is in this thread. Good.

 

[Mira]

Mira,

The generalization of an entire group of people based on their race is indeed racism.

Thank you.

In that case you do agree that the same aplies to Muslims and Arabs, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

 

[marywollstonecraft]

You were already warned by a moderator who knows very well the forum rules and has the intelligence to recognize a generalization based on a race that your early comment was indeed an act of generalization based on a race.

you should be infracted. this thread is predominantly a forum for you to bully and personally attack me.

Is that what debate politics is?

a forum for people like you to launch personal attack after personal attack on other posters?

 

[alexa]

You are obviously not prepared to look at this with an open mind. Till now I have answered all of your questions adequately and showed you why I believe you were wrong in calling this new member a racist and that her speech was bordering on hate speech.

Your arguments not just in this thread but throughout are becoming more and more just a rant that the person with an opposing view is immoral. You are not possible to debate with. You have no awareness that to call a person who is not racist is no less of a 'crime' than a person being racist. Both are hurtful.

I have taken time to answer each of the things you came up with carefully. You have taken now to misrepresenting what I say because you had no argument.

 

[Apocalypse]

a forum for people like you to launch personal attack after personal attack on other posters?

I believe you were the first one to launch a personal attack in this thread with the "shove it up your arse" issue.
There is only a limit to being dishonest.

 

[Apocalypse]

Not protesting is agreeing.

And not holding an umbrella is singing a song.

Funny how all these people who are openly racist on this forum are your friends and you thank them right, left and centre.

I never thanked racist posts as well, but it's funny how you declare them racist for saying much less than what your friend here has just stated.
How do you call double standards that are entirely dependent on the victim race?

 

[Mira]

Back to the main subject if you don't mind.

This is what I posted a few pages back but got no answer.

Here in France people do not protest each time there is a murder but there is public outrage, protests and sit ins each and every time an incident involving racism takes place. I was hoping that the same happened in Israel and people apart from Bt'Selem and Gush Shlom pprotested.

 

[Apocalypse]

Back to the main subject if you don't mind.

This is what I posted a few pages back but got no answer.

Here in France people do not protest each time there is a murder but there is public outrage, protests and sit ins each and every time an incident involving racism takes place. I was hoping that the same happened in Israel and people apart from Bt'Selem and Gush Shlom pprotested.

This is a very minor incident, hence it is enough to simply state the opposition to it and carry on.
By law it is being given a green light, since the councils are allowed to decide who'll live in their settlements based on whatever reasons they wish to, but this is still an illegitimate discrimination and hence it draws opposition.
A few weeks ago a Jewish dance group has preformed in a festival in Germany. Some Muslim youths, including little kids, have taken rocks and started throwing them at the group of dancers, hitting one of the dancers in the leg and injuring him, screaming anti-semite remarks into a megaphone.

There was no protest in Germany over that.
Does that mean they all agree with it?

 

[Zyphlin]

[i hate IE 6]

 

[Apocalypse]

[i hate IE 6]

Mozilla Download

 

[Mira]

This is a very minor incident, hence it is enough to simply state the opposition to it and carry on.
By law it is being given a green light, since the councils are allowed to decide who'll live in their settlements based on whatever reasons they wish to, but this is still an illegitimate discrimination and hence it draws opposition.
A few weeks ago a Jewish dance group has preformed in a festival in Germany. Some Muslim youths, including little kids, have taken rocks and started throwing them at the group of dancers, hitting one of the dancers in the leg and injuring him, screaming anti-semite remarks into a megaphone.

There was no protest in Germany over that.
Does that mean they all agree with it?

It is amazing that you call this a minor incident to me it looks like a major incident, but anyway ...

The German police did arrest the stone throwers and is investigating the incident.

A spontaneous action by one individual or a group of kids is not the same thing as an organised refusal to integrate entire families into a community because of their religion.

 

[Mira]

So Apocalypse, to you this statement is "minor" ?

"The biggest problem is that if you accept 10 families in which the mother isn't Jewish, then soon there will be 30 children, and tomorrow your son could fall in love with the good-looking girl next door. It's a real problem," Heiman said.

"It's difficult enough with the dozens of terrorists who enter each morning," added Nokdim resident Amit Gruen, in apparent reference to Palestinians employed in home construction in the settlement.

"We have to separate ourselves from the gentiles in commerce and everything else - particularly when it comes to living with them. It could lead to assimilation or idol worship; it opens the door to all kinds of trouble. They might lead us into committing offenses that Jews normally don't do, like idolatry and incest and all kinds of other perversions. That's why we have no place for them here," he said.

"In principle, the fact that they serve in the army is a problem. They must not serve in the army - the fact that the state brought them over doesn't mean a thing. Just as it brought them over, it can send them back to their own countries," Gruen said.

 

[Zyphlin]

Moderator's Warning:

Thread bans have been issued for marywollstonecraft and apocolypse. If anyone else would like to continue to throw around insults of anti-semitism or mental deficiencies, or wish to ignore general warnings and continue to go off topic and instead focus on posters, then similar action will be taken. Now lets return back to the topic at hand.