Lack of diversity in NFL coaching choices, or lack of african-americans?

[Tucker Case]

I keep seeing stories like this one:

NFL looking to expand Rooney Rule after 'lack of diversity' in head coaching, GM hirings - Yahoo! Sports

lamenting the lack of "diversity" in the NFL coaching hires this season, but one thing struck me as odd:

"The NFL plans to expand the league's Rooney Rule in the aftermath of zero minority hires among the 14 head coach and general manager positions so far this offseason."

No mention of Marc Trestman, the only Jewish coach in the NFL right now after being hired by the bears. Did Jewish people lose their minority card when I wasn't looking?

So what I wonder is if the NFL coaching population more diverse than it was or less diverse? On one hand, there are two fewer African-American coaches (Crennel and Smith) but on the other they have a new minority group presented that has gone unrepresented since Marv Levy I think.

Which situation creates "diversity"? More total minority groups represented, or more of one specific minority group being represented? If "diversity" is just code for "African-Americans", why not just say it plainly?



P.S. This isn't a complaint about the desire for more African-American head coaches, I actually agree that the NFL needs more black coaches and executives. It's a complaint over the use of language to mask what the real complaint is: a lack of African-American hirings.

 

[StillBallin75]

No mention of Marc Trestman, the only Jewish coach in the NFL right now after being hired by the bears. Did Jewish people lose their minority card when I wasn't looking?

I can't recall the last time "Jewish" was under the list of options when I was asked on a form for my race or ethnicity, to be honest.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I don't think "diversity" is "code" for "African-Americans"; I think people just define diversity in certain ways.

For the most part, I think when people talk about diversity and minorities, they're referring to blacks, Hispanics, Asians and other people who often have distinct physical/language/cultural differences from the people who Americans tend to label "white". The terms are fairly surface-based. While Jewish people tend to be included in concerns about diversity and minorities in certain contexts such as when talking about significant historical discrimination and other marginalization, they are often left out of discussions about minorities and diversity because many Jewish people "look" white. In other words, they fit into the normative perception of what a white person is in the United States.

For the record, I haven't made argument over whether this perception and labeling of Jewish people is "good" or "bad". I'm saying what I think that perception and labeling are.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I can't recall the last time "Jewish" was under the list of options when I was asked on a form for my race or ethnicity, to be honest.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "Jewish" falls under "White (Non-Hispanic)".

 

[Fisher]

I can't recall the last time "Jewish" was under the list of options when I was asked on a form for my race or ethnicity, to be honest.

Some contend there is a Jewish race, not that all Jews are of that race.....

Jews Are a 'Race,' Genes Reveal

I think the lack of minority head coaches probably has to do with so many athletes being used up by the time the quit playing or being so rich they just don't want to bother.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Numerically white males are a minority of our population as well, simply the second largest, right behind white females.

 

[Tucker Case]

I can't recall the last time "Jewish" was under the list of options when I was asked on a form for my race or ethnicity, to be honest.

Why would that matter? It's fairly impossible to argue that the Jewish people haven't faced similar levels of bigotry to any other minority group in the US.

 

[Higgins86]

Why would that matter? It's fairly impossible to argue that the Jewish people haven't faced similar levels of bigotry to any other minority group in the US.

they didnt come over in chains though...

Too be honest the problem is much bigger than just the NFL. You look at most other sports in the US and its dominated by black players but somehow so little of them get a chance to coach, very similar to the English Premier Lg where at one point half our english team was black but yet there was just one black coach.

 

[Tucker Case]

they didnt come over in chains though...

Too be honest the problem is much bigger than just the NFL. You look at most other sports in the US and its dominated by black players but somehow so little of them get a chance to coach, very similar to the English Premier Lg where at one point half our english team was black but yet there was just one black coach.

So because the Jewish people didn't come over in chains they shouldn't be considered a minority? I ask because I'm not sure about the relevance of your point about comingover in chains. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more black coaches and executives, either. The issue I bring up is about diversity in general and how the hiring of what appears to be only the fourth Jewish head coach in NFL history according to my research on the matter.

To give some perspective on that, there are three black head coaches in the NFL right now but only four Jewish head coaches in NFL history, if my reasearch is correct.

Personally, I think that it denigrates Trestman's accomplishment to decry the so-called lack of diversity in the hirings.

 

[The Man]

There was an article a few years ago about how few African American players there are in Major League Baseball (it was either in SI or ESPN). They were right, there's not many black baseball players at all today. I don't think it has to do with discrimination in this day and age. I think it's just that there are fewer and fewer blacks interested in pursuing careers in MLB. Likewise, there is likely just a whole lot fewer qualified black head coaching candidates for NFL jobs. We can speculate all day. Why are there so few white running backs? Why so few black kickers and punters?

 

[Higgins86]

So because the Jewish people didn't come over in chains they shouldn't be considered a minority? I ask because I'm not sure about the relevance of your point about comingover in chains. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more black coaches and executives, either. The issue I bring up is about diversity in general and how the hiring of what appears to be only the fourth Jewish head coach in NFL history according to my research on the matter.

To give some perspective on that, there are three black head coaches in the NFL right now but only four Jewish head coaches in NFL history, if my reasearch is correct.

Personally, I think that it denigrates Trestman's accomplishment to decry the so-called lack of diversity in the hirings.

I was more targeting your statement that "It's fairly impossible to argue that the Jewish people haven't faced similar levels of bigotry". I would argue that strongly as would most african americans in the US.
Also I would hedge a bet that there have been far more black players in the NFL than Jewish especially in the last 30 years which would kind of prove the point.

 

[Muhammed]

There was an article a few years ago about how few African American players there are in Major League Baseball (it was either in SI or ESPN). They were right, there's not many black baseball players at all today. I don't think it has to do with discrimination in this day and age. I think it's just that there are fewer and fewer blacks interested in pursuing careers in MLB. Likewise, there is likely just a whole lot fewer qualified black head coaching candidates for NFL jobs. We can speculate all day. Why are there so few white running backs? Why so few black kickers and punters?

I think it's obviously genetics

 

[Gipper]

I really hake the Token Rule, a.k.a. "Rooney Rule". I'm sorry that "high-risk" black candidates who were coordinators don't always get hired. That's just how it is.

 

[Tucker Case]

I was more targeting your statement that "It's fairly impossible to argue that the Jewish people haven't faced similar levels of bigotry". I would argue that strongly as would most african americans in the US.

Similar levels of bigotry, not similar levels of slavery.

Also I would hedge a bet that there have been far more black players in the NFL than Jewish especially in the last 30 years which would kind of prove the point.

Why would that matter?

 

[Neomalthusian]

There are a lack of white NFL running backs. I am outraged.

 

[ecofarm]

So what I wonder is if the NFL coaching population more diverse than it was or less diverse?

A classic ecologic question. Two habitats:

1. Three species: 1%, 5% and 94% respectively, of total population.
2. Two species: 50%, 50%.

Which is more biodiverse.

 

[WI Crippler]

The Bears are racists....

 

[Tucker Case]

A classic ecologic question. Two habitats:

1. Three species: 1%, 5% and 94% respectively, of total population.
2. Two species: 50%, 50%.

Which is more biodiverse.

I'd got with 2 in that scenario, but neither is very diverse.

However, let's use real percentages. This particular question is as follows:

1. three species: 3.1%, 15.6%, and 81.3% of the population respectively

or

2. four species: 3.1%, 3.1%, 9.4%, and 84.4% of the population respectively.

Which is more diverse?

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Every time I hear how some sport or team is racist I just roll my eyes.

Sports teams, in general, have to be the LEAST racist of any type of employer. The team wants the best players and coaches they can find regardless of their race. It's not like you are hiring an accountant where you might have 100 applicants with the exact same skills to fill the job. There are not 100 Tom Bradys or Michael Jordans or Patrick Roys or Stephan Strausburgs that you can choose from. Maybe you could find racism in the front office in the ticket sales department or the marketing department but not on the field or court.

 

[Thorgasm]

Until I read this thread I had no idea that Trestman was Jewish. I didn't need an article on Lovie Smith's race. It could be possible that people don't realize that he is Jewish. I'm really bad at playing "Are they Jewish?" though. I know I can't tell you who the first Jewish coach was. From a little research it looks like Sid Gillman.

If you asked me who the first black coach in the NFL was I would say Art Shell. I would be wrong, but I bet a lot of people would agree with that unless they did some research and discovered it was Fritz Pollard. The point is, it is much easier to name black coaches than Jewish ones. I don't think of Marv Levy as a Jewish coach. (Although, if I thought about his name for a millisecond, it's not really a secret. :lol I know that is part of your point. There haven't been many Jewish coaches in the NFL. What I am saying is that even if there were, I don't think a lot of people would realize they were Jewish.

 

[Tucker Case]

Until I read this thread I had no idea that Trestman was Jewish. I didn't need an article on Lovie Smith's race. It could be possible that people don't realize that he is Jewish. I'm really bad at playing "Are they Jewish?" though. I know I can't tell you who the first Jewish coach was. From a little research it looks like Sid Gillman.

If you asked me who the first black coach in the NFL was I would say Art Shell. I would be wrong, but I bet a lot of people would agree with that unless they did some research and discovered it was Fritz Pollard. The point is, it is much easier to name black coaches than Jewish ones. I don't think of Marv Levy as a Jewish coach. (Although, if I thought about his name for a millisecond, it's not really a secret. :lol I know that is part of your point. There haven't been many Jewish coaches in the NFL. What I am saying is that even if there were, I don't think a lot of people would realize they were Jewish.

I get the fact that people might not realize that there have been so few Jewish coaches (It looks like it's been five if you count Al Davis), but someone who is writing an article complaining about the lack of diversity in the hirings this year should do the minimum amount of research about the coaches beforehand (although what other ethnicity is going to have someone who becomes an NFL head coach while also holding a law degree? :2razz: Seriously, though, that is kind of living up to the stereotype).

Is there a huge discrepancy in the number of black players and executives in the game compared to the number of black players in the game? Absolutely. And it does need to be addressed. But addressing that problem should not take the form of ignoring other minority hirings and downplaying their significance. I think that's what irritates me about the way it's being reported. Diversity is should be promoted regardless of what the person's skin tone. I would love to see an openly gay NFL head coach or executive, too. Or a person with a disability in one of those roles.

 

[WI Crippler]

Or a person with a disability in one of those roles.

Say what you want, the Bears have put several of these people in positions of leadership throughout their organization.

 

[Tucker Case]

Say what you want, the Bears have put several of these people in positions of leadership throughout their organization.

Walked into that one. :lol:

 

[sangha]

P.S. This isn't a complaint about the desire for more African-American head coaches, I actually agree that the NFL needs more black coaches and executives. It's a complaint over the use of language to mask what the real complaint is: a lack of African-American hirings.

I think it's important to not expect much in the way of semantic accuracy from people who went to college in order to learn journalism

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Is there a huge discrepancy in the number of black players and executives in the game compared to the number of black players in the game? Absolutely. And it does need to be addressed.

Couldn't that be due to any number of reasons outside the NFL's and teams control? Education rates and poverty within the african american community are pretty high and are bound to affect such a trend on a number of levels. Least of all a possible lack of interest in working with an academic body that seem to act as the first steps for anyone interested in a couching career.