What's with the bullying scandal?

[MaggieD]

A lawyer for Miami Dolphins player Jonathan Martin has released a statement about the ongoing bullying scandal, and it contains an explosive new anecdote.Martin left the team last week amid widespread reports that he had been bullied by teammate Richie Incognito.
An alleged voicemail emerged earlier this week where Incognito called Martin a "half-n*****" and threatened him.


Now, thanks to the statement from Martin's lawyer David Cornwell, we have more alleged evidence that Martin was bullied.
According to Cornwell, a teammate once said this to Martin:
"We are going to run train on your sister. ... She loves me. I am going to f*** her without a condom and c** in her c***."
Cornwell doesn't specify which teammate delivered the alleged quote. He also doesn't specify whether it's a voicemail, text, or something said in person.


Read more: Jonathan Martin Lawyer Releases Statement - Business Insider
Read more: Jonathan Martin Lawyer Releases Statement - Business Insider

Why would the Dolphins be picking on this guy so much? WTF?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Well - I imagine that some of these guys aren't much more mature than when they were in college. They were probably like the guys form Animal House. I mean - seriously. Not everyone is *like that* (a lot aren't) - but I don't see anything in football that tells me some of these guys matured past the age of 17.

So, when they act like kids - I'm not surprised. Others shouldn't be surprised, either. It's not a surprise. (People act so shocked that the can be jerks and be so imbecilic)

This means that there are always:

1. The mellow guys on the team who like to play but not cause drama.
2. Spoil sports who can't take a loss very well and pout a lot.
3. Trouble makes who cause problems no matter what.
4. The rule enforcers who are always trying to get everyone to get along.
5. And the guy who just gets sick of the spoil sports and the trouble makers taking the fun out of the game.

If you're a parent with a kid in Football you see these types and how they come together (or don't) on the field. Our season ended today (Rookie) and the season was full of a few kids who liked to try to take all the attention by being cut ups. Will they change? Maybe.

 

[Redress]

Why would the Dolphins be picking on this guy so much? WTF?

Hazing in some ways can be a tool to bring a team together. We did it in the military to new guys(though not nearly to the extent that it used to be done, and probably more than it is done now). The problem is certain people just delight in the process. With professional athletes, who have been star players and used to a level of special treatment most of their life, they oftentimes do not have the brake that most people do, they just go on and on since they know from previous experience they can get away with most anything as long as they produce on the field. This really strikes me as that type of situation, coupled with a bit of mob psychology.

 

[justabubba]

Why would the Dolphins be picking on this guy so much? WTF?

because he's soft
get him to the point where he is willing to stand up and fight
but when confronted with the fight or flight response, martin chose flight
again, because he's soft


which of these fellows would you want in the trench fighting beside you?

 

[Redress]

because he's soft
get him to the point where he is willing to stand up and fight
but when confronted with the fight or flight response, martin chose flight
again, because he's soft


which of these fellows would you want in the trench fighting beside you?

He is not going to war, he is playing a sport. Further, nothing in this indicates an ability to play that sport.

 

[justabubba]

He is not going to war, he is playing a sport. Further, nothing in this indicates an ability to play that sport.

the pro football players most definitely fight in the trenches ... especially the linemen

that they were scouted, drafted, signed, and not cut, indicates they are able to play that sport
surprised i even needed to explain that

 

[Redress]

the pro football players most definitely fight in the trenches ... especially the linemen

that they were scouted, drafted, signed, and not cut, indicates they are able to play that sport
surprised i even needed to explain that

It is not fighting, it is not combat, no ones life is on the line. Hazing does not make on tough, and this situation says exactly nothing about Martin's ability to play a sport. Faux macho bull**** about fight or flight is stupid. The pressure in a football game and the pressure from continued harassment and pressure from combat are all significantly different from each other. Blaming the victim is lame.

 

[trfjr]

Two words ROID RAGE

 

[justabubba]

It is not fighting, it is not combat, no ones life is on the line.

it most definitely IS fighting. not to the death. but only one of the team combatants is going to prevail. ******s don't fare well in such sport. which probably explains why the team mates have come out in support of incognito rather than martin

Hazing does not make on tough,

what does not kill you makes you stronger
there was hazing in the two sports i played thru college; hell there was hazing back then just because we were freshmen. adapting to the hazing, which included dishing it out as well as accepting the abuse, may not have made you tougher, but it sure eliminated those who were not tough enough to endure it

... and this situation says exactly nothing about Martin's ability to play a sport.

and i will contend you are wrong. as proof, watch and see if he suits up this week. the ***** took himself out of the game

Faux macho bull**** about fight or flight is stupid.

what is stupid is being unable to recognize that is exactly what happened. martin chose flight. he wussed out when confronted. not the kind of fellow i would want on the line next to me in a rough and tumble pro football game. he's soft. which is why the coaching staff told elected team captain incognito to 'toughen him up'

The pressure in a football game and the pressure from continued harassment and pressure from combat are all significantly different from each other.

but notice they are all pressure situations. and if you fold under pressure, you will probably lose. and those beside you are also subject to lose ... because the guy beside the could not stand the pressure

Blaming the victim is lame.

the reality is the guy does not have the balls to play with the big boys. he's soft. that's no 'blame', that martin is soft is nothing other than the unvarnished truth

 

[ecofarm]

the reality is the guy does not have the balls to play with the big boys. he's soft. that's no 'blame', that martin is soft is nothing other than the unvarnished truth

What was he supposed to do?

 

[Fisher]

What was he supposed to do?

Get a contract for a new Bravo Show "The Real (tee hee hee,no seriously it's real. honest.) Football Players of Miami"

Just a bunch of attention-seeking nonsense all the way around.

 

[opendebate]

Why would the Dolphins be picking on this guy so much? WTF?

Who are they picking on?

 

[austrianecon]

It is not fighting, it is not combat, no ones life is on the line. Hazing does not make on tough, and this situation says exactly nothing about Martin's ability to play a sport. Faux macho bull**** about fight or flight is stupid. The pressure in a football game and the pressure from continued harassment and pressure from combat are all significantly different from each other. Blaming the victim is lame.

It's 100% violence. Your lively hood is on the line 100% of the time. One missed block and you could end up a being a cripple. A few years of missed blocks and taking hits and you end up with brain damage, which the NFL just paid millions out of pocket to pay for treatment for former players.

It says everything about Martin's ability. Martin was one of the worst tackles in the NFL last year and was on pace to be even worse this year. The Dolphins had to replace earlier this year at left tackle (the blind side) because he wasn't doing his job protecting the QB. So they had to sign another tackle, which cost the Dolphins money, ate into Salary Cap next year and effects the pay of every player.

Martin had no fight in him. He got steamrolled every game. He had to toughen up..and he didn't do it on his own so players were asked to help him along. But instead of Martin getting the clue, he did the typical response of someone who doesn't have fight in him. He walked away and blamed others for his lack of ability.


Now that doesn't mean I agree with some of the stuff that happened. But certainly some of it's acceptable. Just another example of pussification of American sports.

 

[lizzie]

It is not fighting, it is not combat, no ones life is on the line. Hazing does not make on tough, and this situation says exactly nothing about Martin's ability to play a sport. Faux macho bull**** about fight or flight is stupid. The pressure in a football game and the pressure from continued harassment and pressure from combat are all significantly different from each other. Blaming the victim is lame.

Technically, it's not combat, but much of the drive in today's sports dates back to the days of the Roman Colosseum games and gladiators, when fights were to the death in many cases. There is much similarity between sports teams and combat units, wrt necessary cohesiveness and a strong desire to emerge the victor. In a team sport, it's essential that you feel you can trust and count on your teammates. I'm not saying this justifies bullying, but I believe that is the origin of this tendency in humans.

 

[poweRob]

because he's soft
get him to the point where he is willing to stand up and fight
but when confronted with the fight or flight response, martin chose flight
again, because he's soft


which of these fellows would you want in the trench fighting beside you?

Martin. Because of the two I know he wouldn't be raging to the point where he'd blow our position.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

They say they were trying to toughen him up but I think he was a bit of a mama's boy and was getting picked on because of it. It's kind of childish behavior but these sports stars are pampered their whole lives and never mature properly. Really they are just huge spoiled kids.

 

[austrianecon]

Technically, it's not combat, but much of the drive in today's sports dates back to the days of the Roman Colosseum games and gladiators, when fights were to the death in many cases. There is much similarity between sports teams and combat units, wrt necessary cohesiveness and a strong desire to emerge the victor. In a team sport, it's essential that you feel you can trust and count on your teammates. I'm not saying this justifies bullying, but I believe that is the origin of this tendency in humans.

I 100% agree. There are unwritten rules in all sports. I, myself, played college baseball. In baseball there are unwritten rules. Way too many to list but they stick with me to this day. Stuff like never show up a pitcher, and never let your pitcher get injured due to a charge to the mound. In college, I broke the never show up a pitcher and I got beaned damn good. 95 mph to the thigh. Didn't pitch about it cause I knew I screwed up. Umpire issued a warning and I told him no warning need be given. It was my fault and it won't go further then that. The game finished peacefully. But the point was I took my lick for my mistake and everybody knew why. If I wasn't hit it would have boiled over. If I didn't own up to it, it would have boiled over so it was squashed with me.

But when a batter charged my pitcher, I ran my ass from centerfield and made sure my pitcher didn't get hurt. I got many bumps and bruises over it. It wasn't anybody's fault but it was the way of the game. Ejections would happen but it was the end of it.

A mere 9 years later after leaving the sport, MLB fines and suspends anybody associated with the unwritten rules as if they don't exist. I find this asinine as it's how players sort out beefs. It's basically a self-policing policy.

The same is applied to the NFL as I've been told by a few of the former players who played at Penn State while I was there and those after my time at Penn State. Practice is where you clear the air. Somebody gives you beef, you take a shot at them at practice. Have words and it's over. All the other player is looking for is fire in your belly. Martin didn't have that fire. It showed.

Mark my words he'll sue the NFL and Dolphins for money. He collect his money and never play another game in the NFL. That's what he wants and the bullying aspect brought up is HIS scapegoat to ignore his contract as he never wanted to play his full 4 years he signed for.

 

[austrianecon]

Martin. Because of the two I know he wouldn't be raging to the point where he'd blow our position.

Then you don't know football. You take Incognito any day of the week and twice on game day. Raging is what you want on the OL. He is the anchor that gets you rushing yards and passing yards.. if you want Martin, you get an injury similar to RG III's last year in the playoffs.

Basically.. 600-700k to protect a $5-10 million player.

 

[StillBallin75]

I don't think we'll ever know what really went down, so it's hard to judge anyone in this situation.

 

[SBu]

Then you don't know football. You take Incognito any day of the week and twice on game day. Raging is what you want on the OL. He is the anchor that gets you rushing yards and passing yards.. if you want Martin, you get an injury similar to RG III's last year in the playoffs.

Basically.. 600-700k to protect a $5-10 million player.

Without reading anything on here before this post, I totally agree. It is A CULTURE OF EXCELLENCE. People who are not excellent will not and cannot understand. If a weakling is introduced to this culture, then open the gate to the shark tank. That is what this guy was introduced to. Can't hang? Cool. But leave with some self respect and don't sell out your team mates.

 

[StillBallin75]

Then you don't know football. You take Incognito any day of the week and twice on game day. Raging is what you want on the OL. He is the anchor that gets you rushing yards and passing yards.. if you want Martin, you get an injury similar to RG III's last year in the playoffs.

Basically.. 600-700k to protect a $5-10 million player.

Bull****. Go back and watch the play - it was a non-contact injury due to a mishandled snap - he wasn't hit in the pocket by a rusher. Not that our OLine is anything to rave about but any Redskins fan will tell you that RG3's re-injury has more to do with RG3's stubbornness and Shanahan's leniency than anything else.

And to your point about Martin, he had talent and potential. He wasn't a great player but he's better than whatever the Fins have to replace him.

 

[StillBallin75]

And for those who keep seem to be adhering to the narrative that Martin was a meekish individual who happened to play football:

Miami Dolphins: Jonathan Martin exhibited no warning signs in pre-draft psychological tests - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

Key quotes:

A copy of the report obtained by FOX Sports showed Martin scored a perfect 10 for his overall profile as well as two subcategories of testing – affective commitment and combative attitude.

“He is not afraid to say what is on his mind if things are not going as they should. He is likely to be seen as a team enforcer if his level of play lets him assume this role.”

Martin also was praised for physical grittiness in his HRT profile.

“Martin enjoys man-to-man challenges and the chance to compete,” the report said. “During games he will demonstrate a tough, no-holds-barred aggressive attitude that will help bring out the competitive spirit in his teammates. Martin has a very high level of dedication and desire to reach his full potential as a player, and he will set a good example of getting the most of one’s ability. He takes practices seriously and will work hard to improve his skills and technique. He has a strong passion for the game and being a good football player is a very high priority for him.

Now pre-draft psychological tests aren't end-all be-all, but like I posted before I don't think the public will ever know exactly what happened and why. Which is why anybody with any degree of prudence whatsoever should refrain from judging the characters of either Martin or Incognito if you've never met them personally. In other words I don't think we'll ever really know whether what happened to Martin were true efforts to "toughen him up" or cases of truly excessive harassment and bullying.

 

[austrianecon]

Bull****. Go back and watch the play - it was a non-contact injury due to a mishandled snap - he wasn't hit in the pocket by a rusher. Not that our OLine is anything to rave about but any Redskins fan will tell you that RG3's re-injury has more to do with RG3's stubbornness and Shanahan's leniency than anything else.

Do you even know what play RG III was injured on? It was the previous play when Bruce Irvin sacked him when a block was blown. Mike Shanahan: RG3 hurt knee on sack before collapse - NFL.com

So don't think you know it all.

And to your point about Martin, he had talent and potential. He wasn't a great player but he's better than whatever the Fins have to replace him.

You do not get ranked 63th of 69th by NFL pro on the OL if you are good. Fins replaced him with Bryant McKinnie. Thier OL is 10x better then it was with Martin at the LT spot. Lydon Murtha disagrees with you.

 

[poweRob]

Then you don't know football. You take Incognito any day of the week and twice on game day. Raging is what you want on the OL. He is the anchor that gets you rushing yards and passing yards.. if you want Martin, you get an injury similar to RG III's last year in the playoffs.

Basically.. 600-700k to protect a $5-10 million player.

I wouldn't want raging. I would want smart and disciplined.

So by your definition... I guess me and Tony Dungee don't know football.

Tony Dungy didn’t draft Incognito because of his ‘reputation’​

You keep this guy in your locker room...

Richie Incognito Accused Of Molesting Woman With Golf Club In 2012​

I'll keep cool caulation in mine.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Now pre-draft psychological tests aren't end-all be-all, but like I posted before I don't think the public will ever know exactly what happened and why. Which is why anybody with any degree of prudence whatsoever should refrain from judging the characters of either Martin or Incognito if you've never met them personally. In other words I don't think we'll ever really know whether what happened to Martin were true efforts to "toughen him up" or cases of truly excessive harassment and bullying.

I don't think it's "prudent" to refrain from judgment. Incognito called him a "nigger" and threatened his life. Incognito also has a documented history of going over the line. Both of those facts tell me that Incognito is a problem. That doesn't mean that Martin isn't also a problem, but this argument that "you don't know them, so don't judge" is a bit underwhelming. We may not be able to draw complete conclusions, but we can certainly make fair judgments, especially when it comes to determining if we think Incognito crossed lines we have set for ourselves.