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I've always been well aware of America's history, both bad, and good. I don't buy into the revisionist version where America is overwhelmingly an evil, oppressive society. Obviously, over 150 years ago(a very long time BTW), there was slavery, followed by segregation. In this country, slavery involved black Africans. Its unfathomable to me that some people accepted it back then, and I'm from NC. But I also see the other side(which is generally ignored or minimized by revisionists), where slave owners only consisted of a small percentage of wealthy people, and MOST importantly, hundreds of thousands of WHITE soldiers gave their lives and/or limbs to free black slaves. That last fact has largely been ommitted.
But slavery and oppression are NOT Caucasian institutions. Racism, slavery, oppression and conquest are human inventions carried out by EVERY race. Native Americans stole land and people from each other. Latin Americans stole land in America from native Americans and oppressed them. Latino tribes like the Aztecs conquered lands from other Latinos, and then ripped out the still-beating hearts of their victims, and Muslims of N. Africa captured millions of white Europeans and forced them into slavery.
But over the past 12-15 years, I've heard many leftists attempt to condition Americans of all races into believing that white people are somehow more inherently evil in those sins, while the supposed "minority" races are somehow more justified, and essentially blameless for their actions. It seems to me that evil is evil, and skin color has nothing to do with it.....
What's your honest opinion, regardless of political correctness?
I've always been well aware of America's history, both bad, and good. I don't buy into the revisionist version where America is overwhelmingly an evil, oppressive society. Obviously, over 150 years ago(a very long time BTW), there was slavery, followed by segregation. In this country, slavery involved black Africans. Its unfathomable to me that some people accepted it back then, and I'm from NC. But I also see the other side(which is generally ignored or minimized by revisionists), where slave owners only consisted of a small percentage of wealthy people, and MOST importantly, hundreds of thousands of WHITE soldiers gave their lives and/or limbs to free black slaves. That last fact has largely been ommitted.
But slavery and oppression are NOT Caucasian institutions. Racism, slavery, oppression and conquest are human inventions carried out by EVERY race. Native Americans stole land and people from each other. Latin Americans stole land in America from native Americans and oppressed them. Latino tribes like the Aztecs conquered lands from other Latinos, and then ripped out the still-beating hearts of their victims, and Muslims of N. Africa captured millions of white Europeans and forced them into slavery.
But over the past 12-15 years, I've heard many leftists attempt to condition Americans of all races into believing that white people are somehow more inherently evil in those sins, while the supposed "minority" races are somehow more justified, and essentially blameless for their actions. It seems to me that evil is evil, and skin color has nothing to do with it.....
What's your honest opinion, regardless of political correctness?
All we can say is that in this country the white man has been the oppressor. What is so important about the other countries and races that did the same thing? I does not make it any less wrong does it? All we can do is be honest about it like the Germans are about the Holocaust. They spend a lot of classroom time teaching their children all about the Nazi's and what they did. Why? Because it is the best way to be sure it never happens again. We can't apologize for our ancestors but we can make sure that we are better than them in our treatment of our fellow man.
I've always been well aware of America's history, both bad, and good. I don't buy into the revisionist version where America is overwhelmingly an evil, oppressive society. Obviously, over 150 years ago(a very long time BTW), there was slavery, followed by segregation. In this country, slavery involved black Africans. Its unfathomable to me that some people accepted it back then, and I'm from NC. But I also see the other side(which is generally ignored or minimized by revisionists), where slave owners only consisted of a small percentage of wealthy people, and MOST importantly, hundreds of thousands of WHITE soldiers gave their lives and/or limbs to free black slaves. That last fact has largely been ommitted.
But slavery and oppression are NOT Caucasian institutions. Racism, slavery, oppression and conquest are human inventions carried out by EVERY race. Native Americans stole land and people from each other. Latin Americans stole land in America from native Americans and oppressed them. Latino tribes like the Aztecs conquered lands from other Latinos, and then ripped out the still-beating hearts of their victims, and Muslims of N. Africa captured millions of white Europeans and forced them into slavery.
But over the past 12-15 years, I've heard many leftists attempt to condition Americans of all races into believing that white people are somehow more inherently evil in those sins, while the supposed "minority" races are somehow more justified, and essentially blameless for their actions. It seems to me that evil is evil, and skin color has nothing to do with it.....
What's your honest opinion, regardless of political correctness?
I've always been well aware of America's history, both bad, and good. I don't buy into the revisionist version where America is overwhelmingly an evil, oppressive society. Obviously, over 150 years ago(a very long time BTW), there was slavery, followed by segregation. In this country, slavery involved black Africans. Its unfathomable to me that some people accepted it back then, and I'm from NC. But I also see the other side(which is generally ignored or minimized by revisionists), where slave owners only consisted of a small percentage of wealthy people, and MOST importantly, hundreds of thousands of WHITE soldiers gave their lives and/or limbs to free black slaves. That last fact has largely been ommitted.
But slavery and oppression are NOT Caucasian institutions. Racism, slavery, oppression and conquest are human inventions carried out by EVERY race. Native Americans stole land and people from each other. Latin Americans stole land in America from native Americans and oppressed them. Latino tribes like the Aztecs conquered lands from other Latinos, and then ripped out the still-beating hearts of their victims, and Muslims of N. Africa captured millions of white Europeans and forced them into slavery.
But over the past 12-15 years, I've heard many leftists attempt to condition Americans of all races into believing that white people are somehow more inherently evil in those sins, while the supposed "minority" races are somehow more justified, and essentially blameless for their actions. It seems to me that evil is evil, and skin color has nothing to do with it.....
What's your honest opinion, regardless of political correctness?
...So why the hell do people keep wanting to talk about some other culture, 2,000 years ago, when we are trying to talk about what's happening right now?...
white people are the oppressive group.
Because people keep beating the same drum that accuses ALL of us white people of being on board with our country's slavery driven past - and a vast MAJORITY of us ARE NOT.
Further, because people keep beating the same drum that accuses ALL of us white people of currently further racial tensions and issues - and a vast MAJORITY of us ARE NOT.
Case in point:
So until people stop referring to ALL white people as if we're currently oppressing others or collectively supporting past oppression done by OTHER members of our racial group we will continue to BE FORCED to shed light on the fact that racism is much more broad spectrum topic and you can be ANY race and have it in your RACIAL background.
Oppression is not about individual actions. We live in societies of millions. This is the thing people don't seem to understand...
I am a white person who is abundantly aware of oppression affecting racial minorities, who has had very fruitful and productive dialogue with said minorities, and who has had a lot of success scrubbing my head of as much social racial dogma as is realistically possible.
But I went to a nice school and therefore I am highly literate. Our school was 98% white. The ghettos black people have been pretty much forced into for a plethora of reasons both historical and current don't have that advantage. Some can't even run 5 days a week, can't afford books, can't have science labs. I tutored some of these kids -- very motivated people -- and many of them couldn't even read at a middle school level. Trying to get them college-ready was all but hopeless in many cases, due to financial and educational barriers. Virtually none of these extremely disadvantaged students were white. You think that's a coincidence?
I have done literally nothing to personally participate in oppression. And I am still inherently privileged in respect to race. It's just how society works. Because I am privileged in that respect, I am part of the hydra-headed infrastructure. On the whole, I am doing a lot better than most black people -- simply because of a bunch of accidents of my birth. In the context of society, my life is put on a higher tier.
Yes, my life as a whole is currently oppressing others. I as an individual am doing everything in my power to destroy the system that made it that way, and no black person ever has begrudged me because of the accidents of my birth. Nor do I begrudge myself. Why should I? I'm a good person who's done a wide array of advocacy in my life, both for things that help me personally and things that don't. If I'm going to be given certain privileges and tools just for being born the way I am, then I'm going to use them to take down the system that denied those tools to others. That feels pretty badass, actually. I like being a turncoat.
Most of us are both privileged and oppressed in some form. What actually matters is what we choose to do with it. I don't know of any activist at any position in the kyriarchy who hates people for their accidents of birth. This is just more made-up demonizing by the knuck-draggers of society who are afraid of losing their pedestal.
What matters isn't now how you were born. What matters is what you do. Whining about people pointing out the flaws in your culture, pretending it doesn't exist, pretending you somehow "deserve" those privileges more than others, putting up a bunch of nonsense strawmen ("But this other culture from a thousand years ago did it tooooo") and therefore passing it onto your children is just perpetuating it.
Talking about oppressive systems is not about whether you yourself have ever lynched a black person. It's about attacking the system that decided you got to learn how to read, and the black kid from the town over didn't.
Progressives: Are Caucasians inherently more oppressive than other races?
Bs! They are oppressing their selves.The fact is, in our culture, white people are the oppressive group.
You can forever endeavor to help others and set right the wrongs - you and I both are (being in a very mixed family, now, and having biracial children I experienced things differently than you and do my own part) . . . but insulting your own race and demonizing yourself as if you're some sort of evil force in the world does no one any favors.
I don't embrace racial negativity in any form - regardless of any race's collective past. You shouldn't, either. It only gives fuel to the wrong fire.
Insulting my race? How? It's just how it came together in this society, and race isn't even biologically real in the first place.
And how am I insulting myself? Like I said, I like being a turncoat. All I'm doing is recognizing the stupidly obvious, which is that I got to learn to read while some black kid didn't, for absolutely no good reason.
You're the one who's interpreting any critique of white society to be some sort of personal insult, and you're the reason this conversation can't get off the ground and we keep having to go back and rehash what the hell an oppressive system is. You keep looking at this as though it's somehow about you.
It's not all about you. And incidentally, your persistent belief that it must be all about you, is a big part of our racial beliefs that everything is about white people.
...So why the hell do people keep wanting to talk about some other culture, 2,000 years ago, when we are trying to talk about what's happening right now?...
Let's rewind:
You asked a question:
Then I gave a response addressing why some people want to discuss ALL of racism-history instead of JUST the US or White oppression component of racism history.
Now you're trying to claim I'm making it personal - about me. When all I did was answer the questions you presented.
Apparently you interpreted my answers as a statement of my personal beliefs on the topic. :shrug: You were just fishing for a heated debate, I guess, and not wanting real answers.
But they don't. They just want to use it as an excuse to avoid talking about today's issue. "Well, such-and-such race was just as bad a thousand years ago in this long-dead former culture." So what?
If they actually had an honest interest in discussing racism as a sociological phenomenon, there's lots of good historically-focused places to do that -- even on DP.
But instead, they show up on every single thread about modern American racial issues, and try to derail the conversation with a bunch of nonsense about some other time and culture when the thread is about THIS time and culture. And they don't want to talk about race as a sociological phenomenon. They just want to make a bunch of excuses for why we should just ignore the problem and keep letting it be this way "Well, we're not any worse than these other people." Not good enough.
You are making it about you. Every mention of systemic racism, and suddenly it's about "Not ALL white people are bad, look at ME and MY blended family." No one ever said white people are bad, and no one is talking about your family. We're talking about something much bigger than that which, by definition, is about people who AREN'T you. And you're making your feelings of higher importance than discussing the mundanely obvious racism that objectively exists in your society. You can't let it be about something other than you and you not wanting to feel uncomfortable. I'm sorry, I think this is more important than your personal comfort.
It is 2016 and slavery is still going on in parts of the world, including the USA.
Shameful stuff.
Oppression is not about individual actions. We live in societies of millions. This is the thing people don't seem to understand...
I am a white person who is abundantly aware of oppression affecting racial minorities, who has had very fruitful and productive dialogue with said minorities, and who has had a lot of success scrubbing my head of as much social racial dogma as is realistically possible.
But I went to a nice school and therefore I am highly literate. Our school was 98% white. The ghettos black people have been pretty much forced into for a plethora of reasons both historical and current don't have that advantage. Some can't even run 5 days a week, can't afford books, can't have science labs. I tutored some of these kids -- very motivated people -- and many of them couldn't even read at a middle school level. Trying to get them college-ready was all but hopeless in many cases, due to financial and educational barriers. Virtually none of these extremely disadvantaged students were white. You think that's a coincidence?
I have done literally nothing to personally participate in oppression. And I am still inherently privileged in respect to race. It's just how society works. Because I am privileged in that respect, I am part of the hydra-headed infrastructure. On the whole, I am doing a lot better than most black people -- simply because of a bunch of accidents of my birth. In the context of society, my life is put on a higher tier.
Yes, my life as a whole is currently oppressing others. I as an individual am doing everything in my power to destroy the system that made it that way, and no black person ever has begrudged me because of the accidents of my birth. Nor do I begrudge myself. Why should I? I'm a good person who's done a wide array of advocacy in my life, both for things that help me personally and things that don't. If I'm going to be given certain privileges and tools just for being born the way I am, then I'm going to use them to take down the system that denied those tools to others. That feels pretty badass, actually. I like being a turncoat.
Most of us are both privileged and oppressed in some form. What actually matters is what we choose to do with it. I don't know of any activist at any position in the kyriarchy who hates people for their accidents of birth. This is just more made-up demonizing by the knuck-draggers of society who are afraid of losing their pedestal.
What matters isn't now how you were born. What matters is what you do. Whining about people pointing out the flaws in your culture, pretending it doesn't exist, pretending you somehow "deserve" those privileges more than others, putting up a bunch of nonsense strawmen ("But this other culture from a thousand years ago did it tooooo") and therefore passing it onto your children is just perpetuating it.
Talking about oppressive systems is not about whether you yourself have ever lynched a black person. It's about attacking the system that decided you got to learn how to read, and the black kid from the town over didn't.
No. However, I am really tired of people trying to distract from the issue by pointing out that any class of people can be oppressive.
The fact is, in our culture, white people are the oppressive group.
And secondly, not every incident of human violence is oppressive. In, for example, historically competing Native tribes, they're just fighting over land, like pretty much every society does with its neighbors.
Systems of oppression are a lot more than that. Other slavery comparisons are much more accurate than just comparing all tribal warfare ever. And yes, every society and race has done it at some point in history.
In this one, it's white people. So why the hell do people keep wanting to talk about some other culture, 2,000 years ago, when we are trying to talk about what's happening right now?
I have been in activism for over a decade, and I have never in my life heard anyone say white people are "inherently evil." I think you just made that up because you don't like having to admit that your culture clade might be problematic.
I've always been well aware of America's history, both bad, and good. I don't buy into the revisionist version where America is overwhelmingly an evil, oppressive society. Obviously, over 150 years ago(a very long time BTW), there was slavery, followed by segregation. In this country, slavery involved black Africans. Its unfathomable to me that some people accepted it back then, and I'm from NC. But I also see the other side(which is generally ignored or minimized by revisionists), where slave owners only consisted of a small percentage of wealthy people, and MOST importantly, hundreds of thousands of WHITE soldiers gave their lives and/or limbs to free black slaves. That last fact has largely been ommitted.
But slavery and oppression are NOT Caucasian institutions. Racism, slavery, oppression and conquest are human inventions carried out by EVERY race. Native Americans stole land and people from each other. Latin Americans stole land in America from native Americans and oppressed them. Latino tribes like the Aztecs conquered lands from other Latinos, and then ripped out the still-beating hearts of their victims, and Muslims of N. Africa captured millions of white Europeans and forced them into slavery.
But over the past 12-15 years, I've heard many leftists attempt to condition Americans of all races into believing that white people are somehow more inherently evil in those sins, while the supposed "minority" races are somehow more justified, and essentially blameless for their actions. It seems to me that evil is evil, and skin color has nothing to do with it.....
What's your honest opinion, regardless of political correctness?
What? Slavery is still occurring in the United States?
It is 2016 and slavery is still going on in parts of the world, including the USA.
Shameful stuff.
All we can say is that in this country the white man has been the oppressor. What is so important about the other countries and races that did the same thing? I does not make it any less wrong does it? All we can do is be honest about it like the Germans are about the Holocaust. They spend a lot of classroom time teaching their children all about the Nazi's and what they did. Why? Because it is the best way to be sure it never happens again. We can't apologize for our ancestors but we can make sure that we are better than them in our treatment of our fellow man.
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