Palestinian Refusal to Recognize Israel as the Home for the Jewish People (1 Viewer)

[donsutherland1]

Following PLO Chief Yasser Abed Rabbo's reported suggestion that the Palestinians would be willing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state in exchange for exact 1967 boundaries, various officials in Fatah have slammed Mr. Rabbo. In addition, some have called for his dismissal. In the meantime, Mr. Rabbo has retreated from his remarks.

What is revealing is that the criticism highlights exactly the point of contention. The Palestinians will not recognize Israel as a home for the Jewish people because such recognition would curtail their demand for a "right of return" of Palestinian refugees and their descendants to Israel, a development that would pose an existential threat to Israel. Interestingly enough, the Fatah officials were referring to the "occupation" that commenced in 1948 [a reference to Israel's re-establishment] not 1967. I highly doubt that the remark on refugees and references to 1948 are coincidental. Rather, I believe they may well highlight the mindset of the Palestinian leadership and it is a troubling perspective would rule out prospects for a two-state agreement.

From today's edition of The Jerusalem Post:

Jamal Muhaisen, member of the Fatah Central Committee, said that it was “impossible” for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. “No Palestinians could ever accept such a demand, no matter where he is and what job he holds,” he said. “This recognition would scrap the right of return for the Palestinian refugees and endanger the status of the Palestinians living in the territories that were occupied in 1948.”

...“By saying he will recognize Israel as a Jewish state, Abed Rabbo has crossed all red lines,” he [Hassan Khraisheh, Deputy Speaker for the Palestinian Legislative Council] said. “These remarks harm the right of return and our people in the territories occupied in 1948.”

 

[Demon of Light]

Following PLO Chief Yasser Abed Rabbo's reported suggestion that the Palestinians would be willing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state in exchange for exact 1967 boundaries, various officials in Fatah have slammed Mr. Rabbo. In addition, some have called for his dismissal. In the meantime, Mr. Rabbo has retreated from his remarks.

What is revealing is that the criticism highlights exactly the point of contention. The Palestinians will not recognize Israel as a home for the Jewish people because such recognition would curtail their demand for a "right of return" of Palestinian refugees and their descendants to Israel, a development that would pose an existential threat to Israel. Interestingly enough, the Fatah officials were referring to the "occupation" that commenced in 1948 [a reference to Israel's re-establishment] not 1967. I highly doubt that the remark on refugees and references to 1948 are coincidental. Rather, I believe they may well highlight the mindset of the Palestinian leadership and it is a troubling perspective would rule out prospects for a two-state agreement.

From today's edition of The Jerusalem Post:

Jamal Muhaisen, member of the Fatah Central Committee, said that it was “impossible” for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. “No Palestinians could ever accept such a demand, no matter where he is and what job he holds,” he said. “This recognition would scrap the right of return for the Palestinian refugees and endanger the status of the Palestinians living in the territories that were occupied in 1948.”

...“By saying he will recognize Israel as a Jewish state, Abed Rabbo has crossed all red lines,” he [Hassan Khraisheh, Deputy Speaker for the Palestinian Legislative Council] said. “These remarks harm the right of return and our people in the territories occupied in 1948.”

What exactly do you think would be so bad about Israel ceasing to be a Jewish state?

 

[donsutherland1]

From an op-ed written by Michael Oren, Israel's Ambassador to the U.S., that will appear in the October 14, 2010 edition of The New York Times:

Affirmation of Israel’s Jewishness, however, is the very foundation of peace, its DNA. Just as Israel recognizes the existence of a Palestinian people with an inalienable right to self-determination in its homeland, so, too, must the Palestinians accede to the Jewish people’s 3,000-year connection to our homeland and our right to sovereignty there. This mutual acceptance is essential if both peoples are to live side by side in two states in genuine and lasting peace...

For Palestinians, recognizing Israel as a Jewish state also means accepting that the millions of them residing in Arab countries would be resettled within a future Palestinian state and not within Israel, which their numbers would transform into a Palestinian state in all but name. Reconciling with the Jewish state means that the two-state solution is not a two-stage solution leading, as many Palestinians hope, to Israel’s dissolution.

 

[ptif219]

What exactly do you think would be so bad about Israel ceasing to be a Jewish state?

This is the Palestinians showing they don't want peace.

 

[Gardener]

What exactly do you think would be so bad about Israel ceasing to be a Jewish state?

What hypocrisy coming from those who want a Palestinian state for Palestinians.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Perhaps each side needs to consider what is more important to the other. For Israeli's, having Palestinians recognizing Israel as a Jewish state and leaving them alone. For Palestinians, having a homeland they can call their own. These two desires are not in conflict with each other. I see no issue with either of these expectations. I'd be curious to know why one who is a Palestinian supporter would have any issue with this Israeli desire.

 

[Demon of Light]

What hypocrisy coming from those who want a Palestinian state for Palestinians.

I could care less about a Palestinian state existing. I am curious about why don thinks Israel no longer being a Jewish a state would be a serious tragedy. What does he think is going to happen?

 

[Gardener]

I could care less about a Palestinian state existing.

So how much DO you care? Since you said you COULD care less, then by very definition you care.

As to any other Palestinians who want a state, the hypocrisy is theirs if they seek to deny Jewish people that which they demand for themselves.

I am curious about why don thinks Israel no longer being a Jewish a state would be a serious tragedy. What does he think is going to happen?

Considering that Jews are the target of so much Arab persecution, I would think the answer would be obvious. The self determination they are afforded allows them to make their own decisions free from the influence of those who hate them with such abandon.

The question you should be asking is why people SHOULDN'T have any self determination, and why you would single out Jews as unworthy of such.

 

[Vader]

What exactly do you think would be so bad about Israel ceasing to be a Jewish state?

They are NOT going to cease being a jewish state. So ... do not even both thinking about it.

 

[Demon of Light]

So how much DO you care? Since you said you COULD care less, then by very definition you care.

Meh, I get that mixed up with "could not care less" all the time.

Considering that Jews are the target of so much Arab persecution, I would think the answer would be obvious.

I would love to know what don thinks would happen.

The question you should be asking is why people SHOULDN'T have any self determination, and why you would single out Jews as unworthy of such.

I didn't say they should have self-determination. That is not the same thing as having a right to an independent state, however. Also, I do not single Jews out for anything. Your side seems to be the one that puts them on a pedestal.

 

[Vader]

Perhaps each side needs to consider what is more important to the other. For Israeli's, having Palestinians recognizing Israel as a Jewish state and leaving them alone. For Palestinians, having a homeland they can call their own. These two desires are not in conflict with each other. I see no issue with either of these expectations. I'd be curious to know why one who is a Palestinian supporter would have any issue with this Israeli desire.

Cap,

The Palestinians do not want peace. They want the final solution.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Moderator's Warning:

Let's remember the rules folks.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/78853-middle-east-forum-rules.html

 

[Degreez]

What hypocrisy coming from those who want a Palestinian state for Palestinians.

The Palestinians have already recognized an Israeli state for Israelis to live in peace and security. Were the letters of mutal recognition not written clearly enough? Or is this recognition condition another way for Israel to stall the peace talks.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

The Palestinians have already recognized an Israeli state for Israelis to live in peace and security. Were the letters of mutal recognition not written clearly enough? Or is this recognition condition another way for Israel to stall the peace talks.

Can you post the Hamas information that indicates recognition. I haven't seen it and would like to.

 

[Degreez]

Can you post the Hamas information that indicates recognition. I haven't seen it and would like to.

I wasn't aware Hamas was the official representatives of the Palestinians, as established by the Oslo Accords. You know, that organization that is recognized by over 100 countries as the sole legitimate representatives of the Palestinians.

By your logic, I should ask you to see Shas' recognition of Palestine. Or the National Union, who reject the Oslo Accords.

 

[Apocalypse]

This entire conflict, the Israeli-Arab conflict, exists because the Arab nations have refused to allow the creation of a Jewish state in the middle of the Arab-dominated middle east.
The recognition of the right of such Jewish state to exist in that place by those Arab nations after all that time is essentially the ending of the entire conflict, from there to a permanent peace it's a short road.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I wasn't aware Hamas was the official representatives of the Palestinians, as established by the Oslo Accords. You know, that organization that is recognized by over 100 countries as the sole legitimate representatives of the Palestinians.

By your logic, I should ask you to see Shas' recognition of Palestine. Or the National Union, who reject the Oslo Accords.

You might want to check and see who's in charge of Gaza and, therefore, who actually represents the Palestinians, there, and "recognizes" Israel or not. When you find out who's in charge of Gaza, please post that group's name and let us know if they have recognized Israel as a Jewish state or not.

 

[donsutherland1]

I could care less about a Palestinian state existing. I am curious about why don thinks Israel no longer being a Jewish a state would be a serious tragedy. What does he think is going to happen?

Because it would undermine the right of self-determination for the Jewish people. Flooding Israel with Palestinian refugees and their descendants would negate UNSCOP's original intent of honoring the self determination of the region's two peoples, giving precedence to just one of them. In effect, Israel would cease to exist.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Perhaps each side needs to consider what is more important to the other. For Israeli's, having Palestinians recognizing Israel as a Jewish state and leaving them alone. For Palestinians, having a homeland they can call their own. These two desires are not in conflict with each other. I see no issue with either of these expectations. I'd be curious to know why one who is a Palestinian supporter would have any issue with this Israeli desire.

Look at it this way

How would african americans, native americans view the US if it declared itself as a White Anglo Saxon Protestant state?

Why not just have Israel declare itself an Israeli state home for all Israelis

 

[Apocalypse]

Look at it this way

How would african americans, native americans view the US if it declared itself as a White Anglo Saxon Protestant state?

Why not just have Israel declare itself an Israeli state home for all Israelis

White is not a nation, American is, Jewish is.
Furthermore, the Jewish nation is native to its land, unlike the American nation.
Israel is the Israeli state (wow) and the Israeli state is the nation-state of the Jewish nation, the Jewish people, a Jewish state.

The refusal amongst the Arab nations and the Palestinians specifically to recognize Israel as the Jewish nation-state, the state of the Jewish nation, is much stronger than anything else that they might demand.
The settlements as the refusal to the offer made by the Israeli PM shows are not even at the same league as the opposition to recognize Israel as the Jewish nation-state as far as the Palestinians priorities are concerned.

It could be said that neither of the two current parties are differing in their opinions and positions on the conflict from the same parties' opinions and positions in the day Israel has emerged.
Israel today recognizes the Palestinian right to a state in the land, as it did in 1948, promoting the vision of two states for two peoples, and on the other side the Palestinians are still opposing the existence of a Jewish state in the land, as they did in 1948.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

White is not a nation, American is, Jewish is.
Furthermore, the Jewish nation is native to its land, unlike the American nation.
Israel is the Israeli state (wow) and the Israeli state is a nation-state of the Jewish nation, the Jewish people, a Jewish state.

White ANGLO SAXON protestant Ie WASP

Israel is a state, with a population primarily made up of jewish people founded by jewish people, but it has a significant population who are not jewish, and by declaring it a Jewish state, does in effect make all non jews in Israel lesser citizens. This is not something a modern democratic state that is to respect the rights of all citizens within it should do.

Jewish is not a nation it is a religon/ethnicity, it is no more a nation then the Kurds, the Basques, the Moros of the Philipenes the Kashmir, or the hundreds of various ethnic groups in the world. Israel is the state, Israel is no more native to the land in which it is founded then the Anglo Saxons were to england.

 

[Apocalypse]

White ANGLO SAXON protestant Ie WASP

Israel is a state, with a population primarily made up of jewish people founded by jewish people, but it has a significant population who are not jewish, and by declaring it a Jewish state, does in effect make all non jews in Israel lesser citizens. This is not something a modern democratic state that is to respect the rights of all citizens within it should do.

I'm afraid your words are quite irrelevant here, from the mere reason that Israel has already declared itself to be a Jewish state over 62 years ago in 1948, and the majority of the international community already recognizes Israel as a Jewish state, yet Jews and non-Jews in Israel are still all equal in front of the law.

Therefore your insistence that once Israel would declare itself as such it would begin discriminating against non-Jews and label them as unequal citizens is absurd and bizarre.

Jewish is not a nation it is a religon/ethnicity, it is no more a nation then the Kurds, the Basques, the Moros of the Philipenes the Kashmir, or the hundreds of various ethnic groups in the world.

False.

The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎ "Yehudim" IPA: jɛhuːdiːm), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[6][7][8]

Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel is the state, Israel is no more native to the land in which it is founded then the Anglo Saxons were to england.

Israel is a state, Anglo-Saxons are an ethnic group.
Jews in general are a people, an ethnoreligious people.
The nativity of a people is declared by their emergence in one land or another, the Jewish people have emerged in the land of Israel and are hence native to the land.

 

[Tucker Case]

Just to clarify what seems to be a disagreement on semantics, The Anglo Saxons are a nation, and the Jewish people are a nation. Nations are not always defined by geographical borders.

In the context of an ethnicity/religion/culture, nation is defined as "A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language"

A Jewish person who lives in New York is just as much a member of the Jewish nation as they would be if they were living in Tel Aviv. They would not be equally a member of the Jewish Nation-state, though.

 

[Gardener]

Just to clarify what seems to be a disagreement on semantics, .

It's more than just a semantic disagreement. It is an intentional effort to delegitimize.

 

[Apocalypse]

Just to clarify what seems to be a disagreement on semantics, The Anglo Saxons are a nation, and the Jewish people are a nation. Nations are not always defined by geographical borders.

In the context of an ethnicity/religion/culture, nation is defined as "A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language"

A Jewish person who lives in New York is just as much a member of the Jewish nation as they would be if they were living in Tel Aviv. They would not be equally a member of the Jewish Nation-state, though.

It's not the first time (or the tenth) that we have a confusing here between nationality as citizenship and nationality as a nation member.