Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Driver

[ludin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

There is no public accommodation law which states that one may demand that a certain race, religion or gender of employee be assigned to serve them. If you think otherwise then please post a link to such a law.

I didn't say that anywhere. they cancelled her order for no reason. they cannot simply cancel her order simply because they do not like her views.
by canceling her order they are refusing her service.

(I am playing devils advocate here because these people want to pick and choose based on their political views who they think should receive service).

my personal opinion is if you want to argue public accommodation laws then it applies to everyone.
if you think that a business can pick and choose who their customers are then it gets to apply to everyone.

they want their cake and eat it as well. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy.

 

[ludin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Goodness, who denied anyone "service" here? Sure as hell wasn't Lowes!

they canceled her order. that is denying her service. did you not read the article I guess you didn't which is typical.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

There just is a difference between being intolerant of racist dirtbags, for example, and racist dirtbags. Some people would all the former and the latter 'bigots' which is fine, but there is no equivalency between them.



The Constitution doesn't forbid Congress to "infringe on religious practice." You appear to be a lawyer, so you know that if that was the case, then we each become a law unto ourselves because what is a "religious practice" is unique to each individual. Perhaps my religion requires me to beat my wife if she disobeys, or to stone adulterers. Etc.



The problem may be the example you're using here. There was no denial of service to this woman. The truck was in the process of delivering her goods. She has no right, constitutional or otherwise, to demand that she be served only by whites. I doubt she even has a contractual claim here, even if Lowes made some kind of oral agreement to have her stuff delivered by white guys only, since that kind of agreement is contrary to public policy. Even if not, she had an enforceable agreement to have her stuff delivered and Lowes substantially complies with that whether or she gets her two WHITE drivers or one white and one black. What possible damages did she suffer? None.



Government's power in this case is being exercised in protecting the rights of all its citizens in the marketplace. If you prefer, the government is making the kind of trade offs it does with every law. The "right" of the baker and anyone else in any line of business to discriminate against anyone she pleases versus the right of disfavored minorities to participate in commerce.



I'll just say that I'm very unimpressed with the idea that uttering "religious views!!" carries magical powers. If we are going to allow the baker to discriminate against gays because of "religion," then why should we not permit the Klansman to hang a "Whites Only! No Muslims! No Jews!" sign in his business? Obviously, in my view, if we allow the first we should allow the second.

And, again, Congress can obviously enact a law that interferes with a religious practice or there are no actual laws, just voluntary suggestions.

While a lot of what you say is true in its way, I guess the main difference is in our image of controlling government power. After all, we both would agree that in the 1960s civil rights laws were necessary even though, there is a certain slight is factually saying that all men are equal and women, Blacks and Jews must be treated the same way. While you seem to believe that laws adopted to correct grave unbalances in society may be justified by the 14 Amendment should be carried on after they are no longer very important, I think that the 14th should be relied on to unhinge the Constitutional rights of citizens sparingly and the door should be closed as soon as possible. Because it must be clear that in the case of the baker, we re in essence acting like Medieval societies, which is exactly the behavior for which many of the founding settlers left Europe.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I didn't say that anywhere. they cancelled her order for no reason. they cannot simply cancel her order simply because they do not like her views.
by canceling her order they are refusing her service.

(I am playing devils advocate here because these people want to pick and choose based on their political views who they think should receive service).

my personal opinion is if you want to argue public accommodation laws then it applies to everyone.
if you think that a business can pick and choose who their customers are then it gets to apply to everyone.

they want their cake and eat it as well. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy.

In actuality


Lowes did delivery the product, the manager was fired, for recalling the black driver who was on his way to make the delivery. What most people are saying is that Lowes should not have changed the driver, and let the customer decide if she wants the delivery or not with the black driver doing the delivery rather then change the driver

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Well I dont know if they can just flat out refuse, things may have been paid for. But if I was manager I'd send the black guy anyway, if she then refuses the order I have the black guy let her know refusal of delivery in this case is the same as canceling the order.

As far as releasing her name, i wouldn't do that personally but if it happened so be it.

I wouldn't have made this a political issue like many here are doing.

I would have called back the driver but not told him why. He didn't need to know.

The customer paid for her merchandise plus the delivery so why cause havoc when is was not necessary?

Nobody outside of the customer and the manager should have known anything about her fear of minorities.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I am impressed we need this much conversation on the matter. The manager made a colossal mistake, and it cost him. The lady continuing to act like the ignorant bigoted fool does not really change the discussion. There was zero need for a company to bend their employee assignments based entirely on a bigot. Lowes should have said "thanks but no thanks" to her business a very long way back. And best of luck to her getting Home Depot or Ace Hardware or anyone else to agree to her terms for commerce.

I renew my earlier comment about this manager; "the idiot of the year award goes to..."

What the hell else do we need to discuss on this matter? Anyone actually willing to support him?

If the black man showed up at her door, don't you think she could have made problems for not only the manager but also the driver by accusing him of something else.

The best thing to do was to make sure that driver did not interact with that lady, for everybody's good.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

She has the right to be a racist asshole, but Lowe's absolutely does not have the right to break the law to acquiesce to her demands.

What law was that?

 

[JasperL]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

they canceled her order for no reason. IE they refused to service what she ordered.

Well, no, they didn't refuse anything except her ridiculous demand that only white guys deliver the product.

What's pretty pathetic is this is what counts as "discrimination" for whites. "Oh, you'll sell me anything and agree to deliver it to my house, but I can't have only white boys deliver my stuff??!!! DISCRIMINATION!! OPPRESSION!! WAR ON WHITES!!!"

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I really can't even believe a person is THAT vile and disgusting in 2015. I mean wow the black guy wasn't even good enough to basically serve the lady? amazing that her bigotry and hatred was so mentally retarded and deep she didn't even want the guy on her property.

Whats funny reading the articles I bet the guy delivered to her before BUT the dumb bitch didnt actually have the it in her to say anythign once he was there so this time she called.

You don't know why she didn't want a black guy to deliver the item.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I would get the security camera footage blown up so you could recognize her and label it "racist" and put it on my wall by the register.

Political activism has no place in business. It just isn't worth it.

 

[ludin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Well, no, they didn't refuse anything except her ridiculous demand that only white guys deliver the product.

What's pretty pathetic is this is what counts as "discrimination" for whites. "Oh, you'll sell me anything and agree to deliver it to my house, but I can't have only white boys deliver my stuff??!!! DISCRIMINATION!! OPPRESSION!! WAR ON WHITES!!!"

the false outrage is false outrage.

the only people crying discriminations are liberals which is their typical mantra.
I have more sympathy for the manager that got fired for not really doing anything wrong.

more so since it seemed that she could have been protecting the driver from a possible dangerous situation.

I find it funny that you guys like to pick and chose whatever accommodations you think are needed based on political beliefs.
which swing wildly like a kite in a hurricane.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

People come in to homes to do X or Y and then scope them out for possible robbery targets. If all you white do-gooders are so upset with this get in your car and drive in the hood and see what happens to you. Any black living in an all black neighborhood would warn you not to do it. Why? Because blacks are racists, meaning they don't prefer your color in their part of town much like whites don't want blacks in their homes, also racist. It is called the truth despite liberal lies about how peace and harmony rule the country. Hatred, mistrust and paranoia exist and always will for generations to come. Don't like it? Too bad. Before you get on your high horse of righteousness tell me what gun sales are this years compared to the past. Tell what the prison population is compared to the past. Things are getting better? Blacks can't even sit in their own homes without getting shot to death as we have all witnessed. Stupid whites still think blacks should forget about slavery and look to the future but somehow that just does not set well, does it?

Are there any blacks in the US that remember slavery? Any at all?

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Long before i got into the management side, i sold cars for a couple of years (think early 80's time frame)

We would have customers come in.....and some of them wouldnt deal with white people, black people, or asian people

And we had all three types working on the sales floor

There are bigots in every color all over the place....and sometimes you find them in the strangest places

When we had a customer say that they would rather have "someone" else help them, the managers dealt with it

And yes, on more than one occasion, they coalesced and made the change for the customer

Was it right to do so? no....but the "customer is always right" policy took me by surprise back then

Twice over those years, that someone that was changed was me.....i lost the chance to make the sale, because the customer didnt want to deal with a white man

We dont allow that in any of the stores now. We dont "need" your business that badly. Someone down the street may, but we wont.

You should have gotten half that sale. It was your up in the first place.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

If the black man showed up at her door, don't you think she could have made problems for not only the manager but also the driver by accusing him of something else.

The best thing to do was to make sure that driver did not interact with that lady, for everybody's good.

Coddling someone's prejudices is not for "everybody's good." The best thing to do would have been to tell the lady they cannot guarantee who will be the delivery driver exclusively because of her prejudices. If she goes elsewhere for her business then so be it, in today's climate best wishes to her finding a business like Lowes that will bend their employee assignments to her prejudices.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

She's free to make the request and there's nothing wrong (from a business sense) with her ASKING for that special request.

What was wrong from a business sense was the manager acquiescing to her request when it violated store policy. In reality he should've told her they didn't offer that service. At which point she could either decide that she wanted to cancel her order or that she would simply accept whatever delivery person arrived.

That it is right and it was also wrong to tell the driver the reason. The manager didn't need to involve the employee in that nastiness.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I wouldn't have made this a political issue like many here are doing.

I would have called back the driver but not told him why. He didn't need to know.

The customer paid for her merchandise plus the delivery so why cause havoc when is was not necessary?

I agree. Just tell the woman that she'll get the drivers who are on the schedule, and some of them are black, and if that's not acceptable to try another store.

And the driver was going to know, give me a break.

Nobody outside of the customer and the manager should have known anything about her fear of minorities.

LOL.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I agree. Just tell the woman that she'll get the drivers who are on the schedule, and some of them are black, and if that's not acceptable to try another store.

And the driver was going to know, give me a break.



LOL.

The article said she refused to deal with other minorites inside the store, so maybe it wasn't just about blacks.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Are there any blacks in the US that remember slavery? Any at all?

Why does that matter?

 

[JasperL]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

That it is right and it was also wrong to tell the driver the reason. The manager didn't need to involve the employee in that nastiness.

Truck is one way to house. Gets called back. Black person gets taken off truck and replaced with white guy, so now two white guys on truck and they go and make delivery. Doesn't take detective skills to figure out what happened. And the way to not involve the employee in that "nastiness" is to not accommodate a nasty request.

BTW, the guy no one is talking about and should be is the black guy's white coworker who refused to make the requested "all white" delivery. If the manager had the same integrity, he'd still have a job.

 

[bicycleman]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I guess it was against corporate policy, so the manager was wrong to take on the customer. She was rather odd, but has every right to choose who may service her.

Had I been the manager and presented with such a request as hers, I would have replied that store policy forbids us to control, who makes the deliveries, but I would have assured her that all our drivers are top notch and are very careful in how they make their deliveries. Something similar happened to me at Woolworth's many years ago, when an irate black man came in and refused to allow a black girl to wait on him. Instead, he insisted on only white people helping him.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

The article said she refused to deal with other minorites inside the store, so maybe it wasn't just about blacks.

She's an equal opportunity racist?

 

[shrubnose]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

That might be ones opinion.

It doesn't mean that the person does not have the right to her's.

And saying she doesn't is as bigoted as the woman.

She has the right not to have anything delivered to her house.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Why does that matter?

This is what I was responding to "Stupid whites still think blacks should forget about slavery"

There isn't a person in the US that remembers slavery so there is nothing to forget.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

The article said she refused to deal with other minorites inside the store, so maybe it wasn't just about blacks.

Sure, she could have been an equal opportunity racist/bigot! Good point.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Truck is one way to house. Gets called back. Black person gets taken off truck and replaced with white guy, so now two white guys on truck and they go and make delivery. Doesn't take detective skills to figure out what happened. And the way to not involve the employee in that "nastiness" is to not accommodate a nasty request.

BTW, the guy no one is talking about and should be is the black guy's white coworker who refused to make the requested "all white" delivery. If the manager had the same integrity, he'd still have a job.

If you are a racist and only think about race, maybe that would be your take away.