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If Obama wins

iguanaman said:
And a "choice" can be taken away, so thanks for backing me up.
They have already proven that they want to take away that choice and ban health policies that offer it.
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You misunderstand so far as it being a choice. Its a choice to how to implement birth control ----at no point should society pay for that choice. Choices and responsibilities are left for individuals to pay for, most rights cost nothing at all. You are conflating paying for something and taking it away--nice try.
 
I figure once a woman gets pregnant, in these modern times with so much education and preventative measures, she has made her choice.

But that's just me.....
 
OpportunityCost said:
You misunderstand so far as it being a choice. Its a choice to how to implement birth control ----at no point should society pay for that choice. Choices and responsibilities are left for individuals to pay for, most rights cost nothing at all. You are conflating paying for something and taking it away--nice try.
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So you don't favor allowing employers to remove the choice of Birth control from their policies simply because they don't believe in it?
Cost is not the issue since it is cheaper to provide contraception than to pay for pregnancy.
 
iguanaman said:
You can't say that the Republicans won't ban Birth control. They have shown themselves to be totaly insensitive to the rights of women and easily swayed by their most radical members. The whole GOP is off the rails and won't be able to win until they find their way back and it's going to be a long road.
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No one is going to ban birth control. That is not even on the table. It is a made up issue by Democrats during an election year. That is all it is. To ban birth control is completely stupid in the first place. The idea is being brought up to force Republicans to defend a non-issue, and to put doubt in the minds of people not paying attention to what the hell is going on, but will vote anyway.
 
Porchev said:
No one is going to ban birth control. That is not even on the table. It is a made up issue by Democrats during an election year. That is all it is. To ban birth control is completely stupid in the first place. The idea is being brought up to force Republicans to defend a non-issue, and to put doubt in the minds of people not paying attention to what the hell is going on, but will vote anyway.
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This is from January but still it does tend to refute your claim that it is a "made up issue"

Santorum: States Should Have The Right To Outlaw Birth Control

One issue was Santorum’s opposition to the Supreme Court’s 1965 ruling that invalidated a Connecticut law banning contraception. Santorum said he still feels that a state should be able to make such laws.

“The state has a right to do that, I have never questioned that the state has a right to do that. It is not a constitutional right, the state has the right to pass whatever statues they have. That is the thing I have said about the activism of the Supreme Court, they are creating rights, and they should be left up to the people to decide,” he said.
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Paul Ryan and Todd Akin Partnered On Radical ‘Personhood’ Bill Outlawing Abortion And Many Birth Control Pills
 
Bobcat said:
you said that Ryan and cantor were radical right, the main issues those two are pushing is a balanced budget.
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you have to understand that the welfare socialist cradle to grave nannystaters think that eurosocialism should be the norm and anyone who despises the increase in dependent teat sucking is "radical right"
 
I know nothing will change in this part of the world
 
Somerville said:
This is from January but still it does tend to refute your claim that it is a "made up issue"

Santorum: States Should Have The Right To Outlaw Birth Control



Paul Ryan and Todd Akin Partnered On Radical ‘Personhood’ Bill Outlawing Abortion And Many Birth Control Pills
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Thankfully Santorum is not the candidate, however, basically all he was saying there is in defense of state's rights. As far as Ryan I didn't go to that link, I would have to see a less bias one. He is pro-life though, so what. The main focus this year should be the economy. Abortion is legal, and that won't change.
 
iguanaman said:
So you don't favor allowing employers to remove the choice of Birth control from their policies simply because they don't believe in it?
Cost is not the issue since it is cheaper to provide contraception than to pay for pregnancy.
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Work somewhere else. Choice. Funny how that works out. Out of pocket costs for most birth control is pretty low in any event.
 
If Obama wins I think a GOP candidate is almost guaranteed victory in 2016. Let's hope that the Democrats do not get a majority in all branches of government like they did for the last 2 years. Having a president not up for reelection with no checks and balances would be terrible in my opinion.

Also, if Obama wins I predict a further delayed economic recovery with much more spending and more moronic speeches.
 
Porchev said:
Thankfully Santorum is not the candidate, however, basically all he was saying there is in defense of state's rights. As far as Ryan I didn't go to that link, I would have to see a less bias one. He is pro-life though, so what. The main focus this year should be the economy. Abortion is legal, and that won't change.
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Why are you afraid of the "bias(ed) link? I take the time to read the rightie links and THEN using info from such 'biased' sites, look for either confirmation or denial on other sites. You really should try to expand your world view.

Now, another example of goal post moving: you claimed no Republicans were trying to ban birth control, I provided two examples - viola! "Oh, that's not relevant" and then you move on to the economy.

Yes, the economy is important but it is the right in America that is pushing social issues, often to the exclusion of economic matters.

GOP: The anti-woman warriors
 
Porchev said:
No one is going to ban birth control. That is not even on the table. It is a made up issue by Democrats during an election year. That is all it is. To ban birth control is completely stupid in the first place. The idea is being brought up to force Republicans to defend a non-issue, and to put doubt in the minds of people not paying attention to what the hell is going on, but will vote anyway.
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You haven't been keeping up with the news have you? SEVERAL states are attempting to ban birth control. Arizona HB2625 which states a woman has to inform her employer if she uses birth control, and what it is used for. If used for birth control and not a needed medical reason, the employer can terminate her employment because it's against their beliefs. Those areas were struck down and amended before passed into law, only because people were paying attention. If it weren't such an issue the last few years, this may have passed unacknowledged. So no, it's not a made up issue by Democrats. It's an issue alive and kicking all over the country that Democrats are fighting.
 
I say if Obama wins we are faced with the issue of Biden being a likely nominee in 2016 and that would be a tough race to win to be honest, but if he chooses to run it is hard to imagine the vice president losing the primary or winning the election.... Unless newt Gingrich runs against him.
 
To be honest, for me Republican Party are already dead. Maybe they will be able to nominate a better candidate in 2016, but congress is going to stay the same, hence it won't help much. What exactly has republicans done the last 4 years? A party that can't compromise is not a party that can bring reform.

Republicans have two factions. One is the religious nuts, and the other is the corrupt centrists. The corrupt rich centrists are going to win as they got the money. In the future the demographic tide is going to turn against them. 66% of all youth (18-29) voted for Obama in 2008, that is unprecedented. Youth are 18% of the electorate, so it is a big deal. And immigrants are voting for democrats too. It is going to get hard for Republicans to win. As nomination is mostly driven by the far right, then we are unlikely to see any massive shift to the left like the conservatives did in France. Hence they will just end up losing most elections.

However, I do have hope for Republicans at state level, but at national level I think they are going to remain weak. They are going to win again, like Schwarzenegger won California. But they will be unable to do anything.
 
Somerville said:
Why are you afraid of the "bias(ed) link? I take the time to read the rightie links and THEN using info from such 'biased' sites, look for either confirmation or denial on other sites. You really should try to expand your world view.

Now, another example of goal post moving: you claimed no Republicans were trying to ban birth control, I provided two examples - viola! "Oh, that's not relevant" and then you move on to the economy.

Yes, the economy is important but it is the right in America that is pushing social issues, often to the exclusion of economic matters.

GOP: The anti-woman warriors
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I've been following politics for a very long time from many different sources, and I don't waste my time with some sources anymore, because they are not worth it.

You didn't provide anything. No one is banning birth control. All you provided is something showing a failed candidate that defends states' rights. And that Ryan is pro-life. None of that is the same as pushing for banning basic birth control (which would be stupid no matter what).
 
EyesWideOpen said:
You haven't been keeping up with the news have you? SEVERAL states are attempting to ban birth control. Arizona HB2625 which states a woman has to inform her employer if she uses birth control, and what it is used for. If used for birth control and not a needed medical reason, the employer can terminate her employment because it's against their beliefs. Those areas were struck down and amended before passed into law, only because people were paying attention. If it weren't such an issue the last few years, this may have passed unacknowledged. So no, it's not a made up issue by Democrats. It's an issue alive and kicking all over the country that Democrats are fighting.
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About Arizona HB 2625, don't you mean that a religiously affiliated employer can refuse to pay for birth control through health insurance...so the individual would have to pay for such things as the birth control pill themselves? Just like people buy condoms at the store, people would have to pay for the birth control pill. That is not banning birth control, since it is very accessible.
 
Porchev said:
I've been following politics for a very long time from many different sources, and I don't waste my time with some sources anymore, because they are not worth it.

You didn't provide anything. No one is banning birth control. All you provided is something showing a failed candidate that defends states' rights. And that Ryan is pro-life. None of that is the same as pushing for banning basic birth control (which would be stupid no matter what).
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So, your basic stance is "They are librul, so they lie and I don't need to check - because I KNOW it" and "failed candidates" have no say in the present-day party.

On the health insurance front, most health plans don't provide free drugs, they do normally allow for large discounts on prescription costs. So far, I have not seen any documentation that the business owner who bans birth control coverage is saving any money by doing so - the health insurance costs remain the same, birth control or no birth control.

There are state legislators pushing bills that would allow an employer to examine the medical records of their employees and if they find anything that offends them, such as a single woman using birth control, that employee may be fired for that "moral offense"


NY Daily News too librul for ya?
Bill would allow Ariz. bosses to nix birth control

A Grand Canyon State senate panel has voted to give all employers the right to refuse coverage of contraception on their health insurance plans - a prerogative currently enjoyed by churches and faith-based institutions.

House Bill 2625, which has already been approved by the Arizona House and awaits senate approval.

Some advocates fear the wording of the legislation may open the door for employers to dismiss employees who take birth control, no matter where they get it.

“Whether an employer can actually fire a woman who is found to be taking birth control is unclear,” said Anjali Abraham, public policy director at the ACLU of Arizona. “But it leaves room for that possibility.”
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If Obama wins you might as well raise the hammer and sickle over the White House. :lol:
 
OpportunityCost said:
You must be an english or liberal arts major, eh?

The social wing of the GOP needs to go. Fiscal conservatism is a winning argument to the majority of the electorate. Social conservatism turns off more people than it garners and is a horrible optic every election.
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So you're more than willing to shut out Conservatives? Pathetic.
 
Somerville said:
So, your basic stance is "They are librul, so they lie and I don't need to check - because I KNOW it" and "failed candidates" have no say in the present-day party.

On the health insurance front, most health plans don't provide free drugs, they do normally allow for large discounts on prescription costs. So far, I have not seen any documentation that the business owner who bans birth control coverage is saving any money by doing so - the health insurance costs remain the same, birth control or no birth control.

There are state legislators pushing bills that would allow an employer to examine the medical records of their employees and if they find anything that offends them, such as a single woman using birth control, that employee may be fired for that "moral offense"


NY Daily News too librul for ya?
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What is this "librul" thing? Whatever.

Anyway, if you did some research you would realize that Arizona HB 2625 only allows religiously affiliated employers to opt-out of paying for some benefits based on the business owner’s beliefs. It doesn't mean anyone can be fired. Try to be more informed.
 
Bobcat said:
Can the GOP survive?

Comments---------
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It won't kill the party but it will force them to have to reorganize. I've said before that I believe the next prez will look good regardless because the economy is going to keep rebounding and pick up steam as the European economy stops dragging us down. It won't kill the GOP and I don't think that they will even face the cold winter of thawing they received after the FDR administration took them to the woodshed and they didn't hold a majority in congress for 40 years.

But I do think it will hurt them for a few election cycles.
 
Bobcat said:
Yes, thats the bottom line, a country that would give a failure like obama a second term is probably too stupid to survive.

But my question is on the republican party. If Romney cannot beat obama will the GOP die off and be replaced by some combination of conservative and tea party people? I think thats a real possibility.
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I just don't see that happening because the embedded nature of the two big parties. They don't have to fight for ballot access like third parties. The have organization from the federal to the state and all the way down to local organization. Third parties don't have these things so at worst what will happen to the GOP is that whatever dominating conservative voice will use the in place organization of the GOP and remodel it and it's vision. That, IMO, is the most drastic thing that could happen to the GOP.
 
those of us who are successful will still be successful and those who are losers will still be losers but even more bitter. I have noticed a shift in the Obama supporters (not the rich elite libertines, christian haters or trial attorneys but the ne'er do wells, the helpless and the untalented). In 2008 they were hoping Obama would lift them out of loserdom. Now they realize he won't and cannot but they support him on the hope that he will afflict the comfortable to make the untalented feel better about their failures
 
TurtleDude said:
those of us who are successful will still be successful and those who are losers will still be losers but even more bitter. I have noticed a shift in the Obama supporters (not the rich elite libertines, christian haters or trial attorneys but the ne'er do wells, the helpless and the untalented). In 2008 they were hoping Obama would lift them out of loserdom. Now they realize he won't and cannot but they support him on the hope that he will afflict the comfortable to make the untalented feel better about their failures
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You know for someone who talks about how successful he is... and how bitter losers are... you seem pretty damn bitter to me.
 
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