Do you flirt or get flirted with? With who, or by who? (2 Viewers)

[Gathomas88]

Of course I am. That's what most people you hang out with are playing at, not "most people" in the world. You're isolating yourself from things just as much as I am. We just spent pages going back and forth about your plan to try to "date" a girl by inviting her to an obvious hook-up situation, and when I pointed out the women you supposed want would be repelled by that, you couldn't argue with me.

You are choosing the company you keep. So am I.

Today's serious dating market is less formal, and less judgmental. I think that's good. It is not any different in the fundamentals of how you would go about getting to know someone for a relationship. It ultimately depends on how you work together, just the two of you. That's still true today.

To be fair here, it's somewhat unlikely that the kind of woman you're talking about would be working a job that pretty explicitly requires that she flirt with men in order to sell them useless trinkets they don't need in the first place, or would be coming on quite so strong as this one has.

In point of fact, she might actually be just the extremely extroverted sort of personality type to think a party would be a great idea as a first date.

Ya know... Just sayin'. :shrug:

In any case, however, that's besides the point. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

The fact of the matter remains, however, that today's dating market is a lot less serious than that of past generations. So much so, in fact, that I'd basically say that less intimate, and more "social," approaches have become the accepted "default" for many groups.

While I'm sure you could find like-minded people and go about building a little social "enclave" for yourself where that is not the case, it really doesn't change "mass-market" reality. I haven't made a conscious effort to either seek out or isolate myself from much of anyone (except for true weirdos, who tend to be somewhat rare). The less serious types simply happen to be who I most frequently encounter.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

To be fair here, it's somewhat unlikely that the kind of woman you're talking about would be working a job that pretty explicitly requires that she flirt with men in order to sell them useless trinkets they don't need in the first place, or would be coming on quite so strong as this one has.

In point of fact, she might actually be just the extremely extroverted sort of personality type to think a party would be a great idea as a first date.

Ya know... Just sayin'. :shrug:

In any case, however, that's besides the point. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

The fact of the matter remains, however, that today's dating market is a lot less serious than that of past generations. So much so, in fact, that I'd basically say that less intimate, and more "social," approaches have basically become the default for most groups.

While I'm sure you could find like-minded people and go about building a little social "enclave" for yourself where that is not the case, it really doesn't change "mass-market" reality. I haven't made a conscious effort to either seek out or isolate myself from much of anyone (except for true weirdos, who tend to be somewhat rare). The less serious types simply happen to be who I most frequently encounter.

I wouldn't write a person off on their job. I've done some jobs I had to hold my nose for, being too proud to ask for help -- admittedly not the type where I had to flirt.

But hey, if you don't think she's the serious type -- which is supposedly what you claim to want -- then why do you even care? Why are you bothering?

Yes, as a whole, it's less serious, because it's more acceptable for people to decide when or if they're ready for themselves, and some people will get there later than others, or not get there at all. Again, that's a good thing. It's better if people who are unprepared stay out of relationships, so that they don't hurt themselves and others.

But if you're not finding the people who are there -- and your own links showed over half of younger men are in serious relationships or married, so there's plenty -- you're either not looking, or you're not there yourself.

Everyone builds their social circle. You have too -- full of users and commitmentphobes. You perpetuate it by your approach to dating, which is exactly along that vein.

 

[Gathomas88]

I wouldn't write a person off on their job. I've done some jobs I had to hold my nose for, being too proud to ask for help -- admittedly not the type where I had to flirt.

But hey, if you don't think she's the serious type -- which is supposedly what you claim to want -- then why do you even care? Why are you bothering?

Kind of judgmental, no? Even if she is the more typically social type, that doesn't mean that she can't still be a viable candidate for a more serious relationship. It simply means that she would require a slightly different approach than a more introverted or inhibited girl would.

In any case, she's attractive, she seems interested, and I haven't got much else going on right now.

Why not give it a shot? :shrug:

Weren't you the one telling me to "man up" and make a go at it just like a page ago? :lol:

Yes, as a whole, it's less serious, because it's more acceptable for people to decide when or if they're ready for themselves, and some people will get there later than others, or not get there at all. Again, that's a good thing. It's better if people who are unprepared stay out of relationships, so that they don't hurt themselves and others.

But if you're not finding the people who are there -- and your own links showed over half of younger men are in serious relationships or married, so there's plenty -- you're either not looking, or you're not there yourself.

Everyone builds their social circle. You have too -- full of users and commitmentphobes. You perpetuate it by your approach to dating, which is exactly along that vein.

My "social circle" is mostly made up of guys in their early thirties and very late twenties, several of whom are either married or in committed relationships. I'm actually the second to youngest in the entire group. :lol:

I also wouldn't consider 27-30 (the age range with half of it's men in relationships) to be especially "young" either, and I tend to think all of this "finding yourself" nonsense is a lot of self-indulgent crap. Generally speaking, the young are confused, and largely irrational hormonally driven idiots, and that's exactly why social mores used to exist to guide them towards more productive and responsible paths in the first place. There's really no need to "reinvent the wheel" when someone else has already done so, after all.

Frankly, what we have today isn't much different anyway. The social mores, pressures, and expectations currently in vogue simply happen to be pointing in the complete opposite direction, and therefore actively serving to extend adolescence beyond its traditional limits regardless of whether most people could do better than that or not.

In any case, however, this is, again, besides the point.

I was simply pointing out that less formal or "committed," and more simultaneously "social" approaches to courtship, are, in fact, the social norm in today's youth culture more often than not. Enclaves and individuals who disregard that tend to be exceptions much more often than they are the rule.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Kind of judgmental, no? Even if she is the more typically social type, that doesn't mean that she can't still be a viable candidate for a more serious relationship. It simply means that she would require a slightly different approach than a more introverted or inhibited girl would.

In any case, she's attractive, she seems interested, and I haven't got much else going on right now.

Why not give it a shot? :shrug:

Weren't you the one telling me to "man up" and make a go at it just like a page ago? :lol:

My "social circle" is mostly made up of guys in their early thirties and very late twenties, several of whom are either married or in committed relationships. I'm actually the second to youngest in the entire group. :lol:

I also wouldn't consider 27-30 (the age range with half of it's men in relationships) to be especially "young" either, and I tend to think all of this "finding yourself" nonsense is a lot of self-indulgent crap. Generally speaking, the young are confused, and largely irrational hormonally driven idiots, and that's exactly why social mores used to exist to guide them towards more productive and responsible paths in the first place. There's really no need to "reinvent the wheel" when someone else has already done so, after all.

Frankly, what we have today isn't much different anyway. The social mores, pressures, and expectations currently in vogue simply happen to be pointing in the complete opposite direction, and therefore actively serving to extend adolescence beyond its traditional limits regardless of whether most people could do better than that or not.

In any case, however, this is, again, besides the point.

I was simply pointing out that less formal or "committed," and more simultaneously "social" approaches to courtship, are, in fact, the social norm in today's youth culture more often than not. Enclaves and individuals who disregard that tend to be exceptions much more often than they are the rule.

You're the one assuming that, not me. I'm the one saying not to write her off based on her job. If you think she's worth a shot, then do it.

Meh. The drop in domestic violence is enough for me, personally. I don't believe in forcing people into modes of living they aren't suited for. Truth is, you gotta work on yourself before you're ready for a real relationship.

You surround yourself with people who support your narrative, and nod their heads when you point yourself at dead ends to avoid rejection. Do something else, and watch the results change.

 

[Goshin]

Do you flirt or get flirted with? With who, or by who?

1. Yes.

2. By all ladies of maturity, discernment, and good taste. :mrgreen:

 

[Goshin]

Kind of judgmental, no? Even if she is the more typically social type, that doesn't mean that she can't still be a viable candidate for a more serious relationship. It simply means that she would require a slightly different approach than a more introverted or inhibited girl would.

In any case, she's attractive, she seems interested, and I haven't got much else going on right now.

Why not give it a shot? :shrug:

Weren't you the one telling me to "man up" and make a go at it just like a page ago? :lol:



My "social circle" is mostly made up of guys in their early thirties and very late twenties, several of whom are either married or in committed relationships. I'm actually the second to youngest in the entire group. :lol:

I also wouldn't consider 27-30 (the age range with half of it's men in relationships) to be especially "young" either, and I tend to think all of this "finding yourself" nonsense is a lot of self-indulgent crap. Generally speaking, the young are confused, and largely irrational hormonally driven idiots, and that's exactly why social mores used to exist to guide them towards more productive and responsible paths in the first place. There's really no need to "reinvent the wheel" when someone else has already done so, after all.

Frankly, what we have today isn't much different anyway. The social mores, pressures, and expectations currently in vogue simply happen to be pointing in the complete opposite direction, and therefore actively serving to extend adolescence beyond its traditional limits regardless of whether most people could do better than that or not.

In any case, however, this is, again, besides the point.

I was simply pointing out that less formal or "committed," and more simultaneously "social" approaches to courtship, are, in fact, the social norm in today's youth culture more often than not. Enclaves and individuals who disregard that tend to be exceptions much more often than they are the rule.

You're the one assuming that, not me. I'm the one saying not to write her off based on her job. If you think she's worth a shot, then do it.

Meh. The drop in domestic violence is enough for me, personally. I don't believe in forcing people into modes of living they aren't suited for. Truth is, you gotta work on yourself before you're ready for a real relationship.

You surround yourself with people who support your narrative, and nod their heads when you point yourself at dead ends to avoid rejection. Do something else, and watch the results change.

I think all of DP should chip in to a fund and buy you guys a house together.

You argue enough to be a married couple. :lamo

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I think all of DP should chip in to a fund and buy you guys a house together.

You argue enough to be a married couple. :lamo

Ugh, shoot me. :lol:

 

[Gathomas88]

Ugh, shoot me. :lol:

*Click, click* :lol:

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

*Click, click* :lol:

Aw, hell. Had to sell my damn gun...

Ah well. I'm still faster than your gangly ass. Iron skillet'll do.

 

[Gathomas88]

Aw, hell. Had to sell my damn gun...

Ah well. I'm still faster than your gangly ass. Iron skillet'll do.

 

[Bodi]

But if you dont try and spend some money, you wouldnt know if they are worth it. As a norm, the financial expense, if not burden, of dates, is for men to take. It will be a bit weird if girls do it. Stingy men do not deserve love from women.

It is not about being stingy... it is about wasting time and resources on somebody that already knows if you have a shot or not. If the woman is worth it she won't worry about being wined and dined. If not being presented with that leads her to think lowly of the man, as you apparently do, then that lady is not worth my time. If you can't get to know a person in a more real world scenario out on a walk or over coffee then that doesn't say much about either party. I have never taken a woman to dinner (nicer place) until we have had at least a few dates. Light picnics, walks, light mountain bike ride, coffee, drinks, Taco Mesa, etc. all work fine.

 

[Bodi]

If you start losing significant amounts of hair, just shave it off. Bald is pretty sexy on a lot of men. Well, that is, unless you dress like an 80 year-old, then bald is just old and bald. :lol:

I used to tell my dad that but he does a kinda comb over... luckily I have my moms side with thick hair. My brother keeps his locks wavy and thick... I buzz my head really short.

 

[Bodi]

It's not dumb, not in the part of the people that are bothered.

The only reason they are bothered is because it arouses feelings in them that they do not like. I don't think sexuality is black and white. And curiosity doesn't "kill the cat." It answers questions that would never get answered otherwise. Most likely these people aren't gay, they are simply bothered by these feelings.

It's fear most of all it manifests as anger or discomfort because fear is telling. I used to be frightened myself. I know how it feels.

Agreed. That is what I meant by dumb. Repressed feelings, uncertainty even when you are certain because why would a guy hit on me when I like women (kind of thing), etc.

 

[Bodi]

as someone with a growing bald spot, I approve this message. :thumbs:

Your avatar shows more than a "little" LOL

 

[Bodi]

Care to elaborate? I dont get why it works. Because baldness is special and bald men are brave as depicted by the films in which bald men tend to the army men or gangsters?

 

[Bodi]

I have literally seen men murder each other over women. Be glad you haven't had to peek behind the Vail and see the abyss.

I am glad you have never seen it and I hope you never will. It shakes you to your very core.

Knowledge is power my friend.

I am sure that Vail is not veil for some reason...

 

[Bodi]

And your modesty



I once gave this same advice to Gath, and he didn't believe me.

That is what I meant by humble... and yeah, it is not about being cheap it is just about understanding the complexities of attraction and that spending money is irrelevant, so why do it. Chatting all the bull**** while over a dinner doesn't lend to what the other person is really like. Being with them doing something is though...

 

[Goshin]

Every time I watch a Spurs game and see Manu Ginobilli, I just chuckle. Also, people joke about the receding hair line of Lebron James. How come muscular athletes will get bald? They dont lack androgens to power the growth of hair. Correct me if I am wrong.

Male pattern baldness is caused by too much testosterone, not too little.

So beware the bald man....

 

[lizzie]

I used to tell my dad that but he does a kinda comb over... luckily I have my moms side with thick hair. My brother keeps his locks wavy and thick... I buzz my head really short.

And buzz is cool too! It carries a sort of tough look with it.
I guess it's a little funny that hair is anything that even gets my attention, but after dh and I got together, I was the only person who ever cut his hair again, and he ALWAYS wanted the same thing. Just down over the ears a little, not too thin at the nape, front right above the eyebrows, everything layered to blend it all, and he just combed it back after a shower, and let it fall wherever it landed when it air-dried. For him it looked great, but over the years, it was getting more and more difficult to keep that receding hairline from being too obvious, but that's what he wanted, and that's how he was. Extremely dependable, extremely predictable, and not one to go for something new. I guess since that meant he wasn't going for new women either, that was something to appreciate, lol.

 

[lizzie]

Male pattern baldness is caused by too much testosterone, not too little.

So beware the bald man....

I knew there was a reason I loved bald men! :lol:

 

[lizzie]

I think all of DP should chip in to a fund and buy you guys a house together.

You argue enough to be a married couple. :lamo

I think I've seen them argue more in just the past few months, than dh and I argued in 29 years. :lol:

 

[Goshin]

I knew there was a reason I loved bald men! :lol:

Heh. I think there's a reason why a bald but otherwise healthy man is commonly perceived as sexy or tough... an instinctive thought that a man whose testosterone levels "burned off" ALL his hair in middle age must be one testosterone-fueled monster! :lamo

 

[Bodi]

And buzz is cool too! It carries a sort of tough look with it.
I guess it's a little funny that hair is anything that even gets my attention, but after dh and I got together, I was the only person who ever cut his hair again, and he ALWAYS wanted the same thing. Just down over the ears a little, not too thin at the nape, front right above the eyebrows, everything layered to blend it all, and he just combed it back after a shower, and let it fall wherever it landed when it air-dried. For him it looked great, but over the years, it was getting more and more difficult to keep that receding hairline from being too obvious, but that's what he wanted, and that's how he was. Extremely dependable, extremely predictable, and not one to go for something new. I guess since that meant he wasn't going for new women either, that was something to appreciate, lol.

I am a surfer and that is the main reason for the short hair. I couldn't stand shaking my hair free of water after every duck dive or wave... it drove me crazy. Now I love the "light" feeling of it. You have seen my picture and I just posted a new one in the Tavern Pics for an updated one. Just feels cleaner to be close cut hair but I also have not completely shaved my stubble/beard in 6 years. I trim head and beard to #2 setting every two weeks.

 

[lizzie]

And that's how it's supposed to be kids! Wisdom is a beautiful thing, Merry Christmas Lizzie.

Thanks Gringo (and what a great username lol)
I'm not sure it's a good thing, because I can't seem to do anything halfway, and it probably causes me as much pain as it does happiness, but I was apparently born that way. Once I've made up my mind, I'm in it for the long haul.

 

[Gathomas88]

I think I've seen them argue more in just the past few months, than dh and I argued in 29 years. :lol:

It's probably worth pointing out that my own parents' first date supposedly concluded with a heated argument that had him declaring "Any woman I marry is going to think like I do!" and her coming back with "You're not going to marry ME, pal!"

Just goes to show that you never can tell, I suppose. :lamo