Difference between With Kids and No Kids

[American]

Crosscheck, if you hate them that much, put them up for adoption. Gaaahd.

Don't take it out on us childless couples for not having kids.

I don't like kids. I'm agin' em, so I didn't have any. So I have to be a self-centered wimp? Actually, I'm very responsible, and made a decision, and it worked out for me.

I understand your anger. Some of the parents I know are constantly stressed and embarrassed by their bratty kids.

Anyhoo. Got to get back to my research. I'm looking for a nice cabin for my wife and I in the mountains. Just the two of us. We're going up on November 1st to the Smoky Mountains for a week. Not for stress relief, though. Just for fun.

Understand what you're saying, but this was an overstatement on your part. No one here hates kids, so let's just take that off the table. It's a discussion, no one is pointing fingers at you personally.

 

[Glinda]

It's a discussion, no one is pointing fingers at you personally.

Bull. The OP is pointing fingers directly at any person that didn't breed. WTF do you think this crap is?

I just find that those without kids become very self centered and always need to get away for a weekend for stress relief. And I think What Stress?

But I truly think if the only butt you ever wiped is your own then you have this strong tendency to be so self-centered and I hate to say it but "wimpy".

:roll:

 

[Arcana XV]

This thread explains why, even after having my kid, I hung out mostly with childless people. I must be the only parent who can't ****ing stand other parents.

 

[theangryamerican]

Just because a person isn't a parent doesn't mean they have nothing to do with children.

For instance, you're forgetting uncles and aunts who are child-free who look after their nephews and nieces. Just because they didn't give birth to those kids doesn't mean they're not family.

Also, a lot of teachers are child-free but spend just as much time with children than their parents do. That doesn't mean that teachers without children aren't "givers" or are selfish.

And just because someone doesn't have kids, or doesn't have nieces or nephews, or isn't a teacher doesn't mean you won't make a good mentor to someone. There's just some things that a kid can't relate to their parents about. I don't see anything wrong with a kid, especially as they age into their teenage years, have an "honorary uncle" as TVTropes puts it (as well as "honorary aunt") looking out for them.

Besides, I'm sure that those parents who have bred children appreciate the effort that those aunts and uncles, those teachers, and those honorary uncles and aunts put into the raising of those parents' children.

I'm not gonna say "it takes a village," but on the other hand parents aren't the only ones allowed to help nurture a child.

And children aren't the only ones that requires nurturing. Take, for example, the elderly and the mentally ill and mentally disabled and the physically disabled. Most people don't have the education or training required to take care of them, which is why we have social workers to work with them. And dealing with those groups can be just as stressful as dealing with children.

And just because a person has bred doesn't mean they are a "giver" or know how to nurture a child either. There's a big difference between being a father and a daddy, and there's a big difference between being a mother and a mommy.

And I should iterate that I feel that I'm under no obligation to have children in order to prove to others that I'm a giver. That's a recipe for disaster with someone's life, and shouldn't be done by anybody.

Don't mean to go on a rant, but I just wanted to put some other things in perspective. There's lots of ways to be a "giver" than being a parent, and there's more groups that need nurturing and love besides children.

Terrible comparison. Aunts, uncles, teachers etc., get time away from the children. They get free nights. They get weekends away from their jobs. Parenting is 24/7. I haven't had a day off since my rugrats were born.



That said, and as much as I sometimes want to put my head through a wall, I wouldn't trade 'em for the world. Until I became a parent, I never realized I could care so much for someone so small.

 

[rivrrat]

I just find that those without kids become very self centered and always need to get away for a weekend for stress relief. And I think What Stress?

We don't always need to. But the difference is, we can. Maybe it only seems as though your childless friends are "always" taking off weekends because you're unable to do what they do. You have kids and have accepted the fact that you can't do anything fun by yourself anymore. Your childless friends don't have that problem. They can go have fun whenever the hell they want.

Additionally... what stress?? Do you really think that having kids is the only stressor in the world? Or that somehow your stress is worse than a childless person's stress? How 'bout I put you in the back of a raft on my river at near flood stage with 6 tourons who are barely physically or mentally capable of putting their paddle in the water (because they're so wimpy from sitting around with their kids all the time and not actually DOING anything) and see if you experience any stress from being responsible for their lives for the next few hours and the 20 miles of class V whitewater you need to safely navigate them through despite their physical and mental inadequacies. Let's see if that's not stressful for you. Or throw you onto an ambulance where you need to save some lives. Or maybe ski patrol so you can try and take a sled by yourself carrying a 200lb man with a femur fracture down a black diamond mogul run to get him to the ambulance at the bottom.

Or maybe you're a manager of a company that's not doing too hot, but you really don't want to lay off any of the 300 souls you have employed. Each and every one of them needs their job, yet if you don't figure out how to fix things, some of them are going to have to go. See if that's not stressful.

Maybe go running into a burning building to save someone's child and see how stressful that is.

I fully realize that having kids is stressful, but it's a different kind of stress. And to wonder how anyone without kids could be stressed is just pure ignorance. Hell, the **** I do for FUN is more stressful than what most people experience.

But I truly think if the only butt you ever wiped is your own then you have this strong tendency to be so self-centered and I hate to say it but "wimpy".

Just my thought.

I'd also love for you to explain how your desire to bring a child into the world isn't centered around your wants and desires. Do you not want to raise your child? Did you not want one? If you did, then how was that decision not centered on what YOU wanted? Not to mention the fact there are plenty of people who don't have kids who have wiped many an ass.

As for wimpy? I honestly don't think a single person has EVER called me wimpy. Simply because I don't have children I'm wimpy? I beg to differ. The moms and dads I took down the river and picked up off the ski slopes were much more decidedly "wimpy" than I ever was. While you're wiping your little rugrats ass, I'm jumping out of planes and taking my boogie board over waterfalls.

"Wimpy". Pfffftttt I'll show you wimpy, 'daddy'. Come play with *me*, sometime.

 

[Laila]

I just find that those without kids become very self centered and always need to get away for a weekend for stress relief. And I think What Stress?

But I truly think if the only butt you ever wiped is your own then you have this strong tendency to be so self-centered and I hate to say it but "wimpy".

Just my thought.

Wtf? Those who haven't had kids must be self centered?

Don't blame us childless people for the stress you put yourself through (which btw I doubt is anything near what a Doctor would face in a surgery room ... just saying) :roll:

If deliberately choosing to have a biological child isn't selfish in many cases, I don't know what is.

 

[Manc Skipper]

To me, this photo seems to pretty much summarize what parenthood is like:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Oh, but they do. For the first time ever, this current set will be carrying their aging parents while they are still bringing up their kids, thanks to the bankers.


Of course, they get a lot bigger as they get older.
They still don't get down, though.

Oh, but they do. This current crop of kids will be unique in having to carry their aging parents, while bringing up their own kids at the same time, thanks to the bankers recklessness.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Oh, but they do. This current crop of kids will be unique in having to carry their aging parents, while bringing up their own kids at the same time, thanks to the bankers recklessness.

That's the way it's been for the vast majority of history and it largely wasn't a problem because the elder parents helped on a day to day basis.

That's a good thing.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

This thread explains why, even after having my kid, I hung out mostly with childless people. I must be the only parent who can't ****ing stand other parents.

I can't stand other parents very much.
The discipline most kids receive from them, is terrible, from my experience.
I'm not talking about beating them or anything but making sure the kid doesn't act like a wild buffoon and learns some respect.

 

[OscarB63]

I can't stand other parents very much.
The discipline most kids receive from them, is terrible, from my experience.
I'm not talking about beating them or anything but making sure the kid doesn't act like a wild buffoon and learns some respect.

We always get the "oh your kids are so well behaved" comments whenever we got out in public. how freakin hard is it to teach a kid to not act like a complete retard?

 

[Tucker Case]

I just find that those without kids become very self centered and always need to get away for a weekend for stress relief. And I think What Stress?

I currently have no children. I do have a kid on the way, but I don't deal with the stress of children ATM.

But I would say that I do deal with a lot of stress. Far more than most of my friends who do have children.

More on that in a minute.

But I truly think if the only butt you ever wiped is your own then you have this strong tendency to be so self-centered and I hate to say it but "wimpy".

I wipe the ass of a 200+ lb 59-year-old man on a daily basis (my father who suffered brain damage 4 /12 years ago).

In addition to taking care of my dad, I also take care of my 82 year-old grandmother everyday. Thankfully she can wipe her oiwn ass, but she is fairly addled and needs to be watched as she would blow up the house if she got the chance.

Since May, I've been gut remodelling two different homes after work (which is taking care of my father and grandmother) doing all of the work myself (this week I'm building a two-story back deck) except on the days that I go to school for my master's degree.

On top of that, I'm running a charity benefit for my best friend who suffers from the same liver disease that Walter Payton died from. He's on the waiting list for a liver transplant. We raised $18,000 for him just this past sunday.

Not only have I not had any type of vacation to speak of for about 5 years, I haven't even had a day off for over 4 months.

Over these past 4 months, I've typically been leaving my house at 6 am and getting back home again at around 10 PM everyday. Admittedly, since football season started, I've been slotting off the time that the Bears' games are on as a little bit of recreation time to myself.

So even though I don't have any children at the moment, I don't think anyone would call me self-centered. And nobody would think that I don't deal with stress.

The problem with your post, IMO, is that it presumes that the only "real" stress that exists is related to child-rearing.

I think that I deal with far more stress than most of my friends with kids do (I would say the lone exception is my friend who needs the liver transplant and his wife. They are dealing with serious stress right now, especially considering his wife was layed off recently. I consider myself very lucky that I'm not in their shoes, which is why I have done so much to help them over the last year or so.)

Another flaw in your post is that you presume that having kids has some relationship with being self-centered. I know of a few peopel who are very self-centered who do have children, and I know many people who are always giving of themselves who have none of their own.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

We always get the "oh your kids are so well behaved" comments whenever we got out in public. how freakin hard is it to teach a kid to not act like a complete retard?

Same here.

We were in ToysRus the other day, it reminded me again, why I don't like a lot of them.

 

[Arcana XV]

I can't stand other parents very much.
The discipline most kids receive from them, is terrible, from my experience.
I'm not talking about beating them or anything but making sure the kid doesn't act like a wild buffoon and learns some respect.

I was talking more about the parents who endlessly talk about their kids and how awesome it is to be a parent and how everyone who has no kids is missing out or totally selfish.. etc.. But, yeah, the ones you mean are the worst too. I got told repeatedly how my kid was so well behaved when she spent time at her little friends' houses like it was some kind of amazing thing to have a kid that doesn't act up all the time. Their kids were total brats except when they came to my house. They had no trouble at all following the rules then and were as well behaved as my daughter.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I was talking more about the parents who endlessly talk about their kids and how awesome it is to be a parent and how everyone who has no kids is missing out or totally selfish.. etc.. But, yeah, the ones you mean are the worst too. I got told repeatedly how my kid was so well behaved when she spent time at her little friends' houses like it was some kind of amazing thing to have a kid that doesn't act up all the time. Their kids were total brats except when they came to my house. They had no trouble at all following the rules then and were as well behaved as my daughter.

Totally understand the first part.
I don't ask anyone to have kids, that's a personal choice.

I see what Crosscheck is getting at.
I'd certainly say that Tucker is an exceptional example of a currently childless person.
He does do a lot that would put him under a lot of stress and I know life is full of those examples.

I guess I'm mostly am identifying with my wife's friends, many of them are childless and they act as if working alone is enough to warrant a grandiose vacation, which at times it can be a good excuse but not always.
I know what they go through pretty well and in my opinion they have it pretty easy.

Edit: I guess it would have been better for Crosscheck to note that some people without exceptional duties, have it easier.
Leave it vague enough to not indite everyone without kids.

 

[rivrrat]

I guess I'm mostly am identifying with my wife's friends, many of them are childless and they act as if working alone is enough to warrant a grandiose vacation, which at times it can be a good excuse but not always.
I know what they go through pretty well and in my opinion they have it pretty easy.

What difference does it make if they "have it easy", in your eyes? They work for a living, they have the time, money, and desire to take a "grandiose vacation", so why the hell shouldn't they? Why should they have to do something that in your mind "warrants" it? Isn't the desire to go somewhere and spend the money you work for enough? It's their money, they work for it, why should they have to justify to you or anyone else how they spend it?

Stress or no stress, I go where I want when I have the means to do so. I don't need to have some major stressor in my life to justify going to Bonaire or Belize, or Vegas, or wherever. Having the means and desire is all the justification needed.

Sounds to me more like jealousy. Like you guys think you deserve a vacation but others don't.

 

[Tucker Case]

Totally understand the first part.
I don't ask anyone to have kids, that's a personal choice.

I see what Crosscheck is getting at.
I'd certainly say that Tucker is an exceptional example of a currently childless person.
He does do a lot that would put him under a lot of stress and I know life is full of those examples.

I guess I'm mostly am identifying with my wife's friends, many of them are childless and they act as if working alone is enough to warrant a grandiose vacation, which at times it can be a good excuse but not always.
I know what they go through pretty well and in my opinion they have it pretty easy.

Edit: I guess it would have been better for Crosscheck to note that some people without exceptional duties, have it easier.
Leave it vague enough to not indite everyone without kids.

Crosscheck said "I just find that those without kids become very self centered and always need to get away for a weekend for stress relief. And I think What Stress?"

Which is the question that I answered.

Granted, I don't get weekends away for stress relief all that often nor have I been able to get a real vacation outside of my honeymoon. We got marrried a little more than 3 months after my dad's accident and he was still in a coma on the wedding day and when we went on our honeymoon, so that was a vacation I really, really needed at that point as I have to admit, I was very stressed out during that period of time.

I've since learned how to handle stress better than I did back then. I don't get away too often, though.

 

[Gray_Fox_86]

There may be something to what you say Crosscheck. I will say that I applaud people who realize that they aren't "givers" and choose to not have kids. Those types make poor parents.

That is just dumb of you. I am not a "giver" and I do not want to be. But I know if I were ever to become a parent I would not be a bad parent. It is also surprising how many of these "givers" belive themselves as good adults when their children will eventually use drugs, get a VD, have an eating disorder, etc, etc. And why is the root of this? Because of those "givers" who are not involved in their children's lives and instead of being parents they want to become like Stalin and Stalin is not good.

 

[Gray_Fox_86]

Having three children myself I have always been amazed the difference of people without kids. Let me preface that there isn't nothing wrong in choosing not to have kids. We have an ample number of kids already.

I just find that those without kids become very self centered and always need to get away for a weekend for stress relief. And I think What Stress?

In defense of childless couples we with kids are the ones with photos and lengthy discussion on little Billy's sports or muscial talent.

But I truly think if the only butt you ever wiped is your own then you have this strong tendency to be so self-centered and I hate to say it but "wimpy".

Just my thought.

I just have to share my thought.

I cannot help but realize how proud parents are of their children. Yet are unaware of how much damage they are doing to society and their children so I do not belive parents should be called "givers". Their only giving is the continuation of miseary and of people who are all not that impressive as their parents/friends would claim.

Just my thought.

 

[Orion]

I understand survival-related stress, but I don't get why some people wear their day-to-day stress as a badge of pride, and try to one-up other people with it. Everyone's life is different and even though you think you can tally your stress levels compared to theirs, you don't know the person. There have been some people I've met who I really admired because they all seemed composed and they had their **** together in life, but when I got to know some of them more deeply, they have a lot of issues and it's not quite that simple.

So yeah... surface level appearances? Not always the best way to judge how great a person's life is. I do have my own views though and I can't help but have them as I'm a flawed observer just like the rest.

My view of people who get married and have children a.s.a.p is that they are taking the easy way out. Social norms reward people who go that route and they get the nod of approval from society for doing it. Now, I don't know what the personal hells of some of these people might be like, but on a surface level it seems like doing something that nature designed to happen easily is not something to brag about. If your biggest accomplishment in life is that you knocked someone up or got knocked up, then I feel sad for you. People who brag about their kid-world and look down on others who don't have kids are, IMO, in deep denial about how little they've lived their own lives. When you have kids your own life is essentially over in that you are now secondary to them. I respect people who wait a long time until they have life experience, wisdom, and have personal accomplishments behind them before they do this. On the other hand, I have been friends with women who do this purposefully in their early 20's and it's a shame.

Maybe I am just more modern or something. Maybe I am forgetting that, until recently in history, putting off having kids was not really a luxury given the life spans of most people. But that's just it... we can afford to wait these days, so I don't see what the rush is. We have the opportunity to accumulate a great deal of wisdom that we can later offer to our children once we have them. Why have them when you are still a kid yourself?

But that's just my subjective take... one in the sea of many.

 

[Tucker Case]

I understand survival-related stress, but I don't get why some people wear their day-to-day stress as a badge of pride, and try to one-up other people with it. Everyone's life is different and even though you think you can tally your stress levels compared to theirs, you don't know the person. There have been some people I've met who I really admired because they all seemed composed and they had their **** together in life, but when I got to know some of them more deeply, they have a lot of issues and it's not quite that simple.

So yeah... surface level appearances? Not always the best way to judge how great a person's life is. I do have my own views though and I can't help but have them as I'm a flawed observer just like the rest.

My view of people who get married and have children a.s.a.p is that they are taking the easy way out. Social norms reward people who go that route and they get the nod of approval from society for doing it. Now, I don't know what the personal hells of some of these people might be like, but on a surface level it seems like doing something that nature designed to happen easily is not something to brag about. If your biggest accomplishment in life is that you knocked someone up or got knocked up, then I feel sad for you. People who brag about their kid-world and look down on others who don't have kids are, IMO, in deep denial about how little they've lived their own lives. When you have kids your own life is essentially over in that you are now secondary to them. I respect people who wait a long time until they have life experience, wisdom, and have personal accomplishments behind them before they do this. On the other hand, I have been friends with women who do this purposefully in their early 20's and it's a shame.

Maybe I am just more modern or something. Maybe I am forgetting that, until recently in history, putting off having kids was not really a luxury given the life spans of most people. But that's just it... we can afford to wait these days, so I don't see what the rush is. We have the opportunity to accumulate a great deal of wisdom that we can later offer to our children once we have them. Why have them when you are still a kid yourself?

But that's just my subjective take... one in the sea of many.

On one hanbd, yyou make a case for how everyone's stress levels are different and that we should nto judge based on surface appearances, and then on teh next you judge eople who have children younger instead of waiting based on surface appearances.

If people have children becuase they want to and that's what will make them happy, who are we to claim that they are "taking the easy way out"?

And why do you feel sad for people simply because their choices in life don't mirror yours? I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel sad for you because you don't have children.

Personally, I'm of the belief that people should do what makes them happy, regardless of how others will try to belittle thier choices becuase they disageree with them.

 

[Gray_Fox_86]

On one hanbd, yyou make a case for how everyone's stress levels are different and that we should nto judge based on surface appearances, and then on teh next you judge eople who have children younger instead of waiting based on surface appearances.

If people have children becuase they want to and that's what will make them happy, who are we to claim that they are "taking the easy way out"?

And why do you feel sad for people simply because their choices in life don't mirror yours? I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel sad for you because you don't have children.

Personally, I'm of the belief that people should do what makes them happy, regardless of how others will try to belittle thier choices becuase they disageree with them.

The Hawks are going to suck this season you should change your avatar from a champion to an old warrior who is nearing the end.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

About non-child having people I thought they dedicated more of their time to work - replacing the stress stress source (children and work) with another (even more work)

No - kids aren't 100% stress and frustration. My husband says he likes to come home, relax - then play with the kids. They're a source of happiness and sweetness which, without kids, you just don't get.

Of course - they're sweet and sour - but never having that sweetness leaves you with all the sour.

 

[Orion]

On one hanbd, yyou make a case for how everyone's stress levels are different and that we should nto judge based on surface appearances, and then on teh next you judge eople who have children younger instead of waiting based on surface appearances.

Well, I try my best to be fair, but I judge others just like anyone. Plus, I already said, in principle you can't really know a person based on surface level appearances, so I get that... but I still judge them... especially the people I have been friends with and know a little better.

If people have children becuase they want to and that's what will make them happy, who are we to claim that they are "taking the easy way out"?

I didn't say all people who have children. I was mostly talking about people who have barely started their adult lives and they are already looking to marry and settle. Yeah, their choice and all, but it seems kind of silly.

And why do you feel sad for people simply because their choices in life don't mirror yours? I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel sad for you because you don't have children.

I'm 25... if people think I'm sad for not having children, then they can go jump in a lake for all I care. I don't live in 1950. There is more to life than marriage and kids now and I intend to live it to the fullest before I someday have children.

And FYI, this is not about judging people based on my own choices. I tend to think in terms of what might be most beneficial to children... an experienced parent with life skills and knowledge behind them. People who hold off on having kids until, say, their early 30's, are usually in a better position to fulfill that. But yeah, everyone has a different biological clock and many don't control when they get pregnant, so I recognize the flaws in my opinion.

Personally, I'm of the belief that people should do what makes them happy, regardless of how others will try to belittle thier choices becuase they disageree with them.

Well yes, of course, but I don't personally believe that having a child in your early 20's is likely to deliver that.

 

[rivrrat]

About non-child having people I thought they dedicated more of their time to work - replacing the stress stress source (children and work) with another (even more work)

No - kids aren't 100% stress and frustration. My husband says he likes to come home, relax - then play with the kids. They're a source of happiness and sweetness which, without kids, you just don't get.

Of course - they're sweet and sour - but never having that sweetness leaves you with all the sour.

I get happiness and sweetness without kids just fine, thank you. And, I don't have "all the sour".

 

[American]

Bull. The OP is pointing fingers directly at any person that didn't breed. WTF do you think this crap is?



:roll:

I guess it just didn't seem that way to me.