California lawmakers approve hiking minimum wage to $15

[Groogrux]

Arguably, higher wages means more spending power, which means more business revenue, which means business can afford to pay the new minimum wage.

How can people making the current minimum wage in CA afford to buy luxury goods?

Just saying it's not as cut and dry as supply/demand economics. If you don't make enough money to afford survival goods then it falls to the government to provide, and then taxes go up. Raising the minimum wage is one way to transfer the burden from the general public/welfare to the private sector.

It doesn't work that way. Businesses aren't going to sit around and wait for an increase in revenue. They're going to protect their profits. When minimum wage goes up, hours get cut, full time positions get eliminated and hiring freezes go into effect.

 

[Neomalthusian]

On-going maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. I suspect the model for manufacturers of such devices would be to sell them at cost or low profit, and make up for it with maintenance contracts. It also means the RD cost would be lower: it's a great deal easier to design and build a reliable device that will be maintenanced monthly than one is "set and forget", or even user serviceable.

And yes, I did estimate numbers, but that is what is required to determine at what wage price point it makes sense to replace workers. Few people are professionally weaving fabric by hand anymore, because even million dollar industrial grade machines are more economical per unit cost.

Another example: it is eminently feasible to develop an automated lawn mower, sort of a beefed up roomba with blades. However, a reasonably reliable and safe one would probably cost multiple thousands if not tens, plus maintenance and operating costs. It's a hard sell when a 200 dollar mower and 20 bucks for a teenager will get your lawn cut every week for the foreseeable future.

Now, at 7.50 an hour, there doesn't seem to be an economic incentive to replace workers. At 15, certain classes of jobs it doesn't make sense not to replace them. We've seen that to some extent with cashiers, as well as bank tellers, and fast food places are ripe for that sort of mass adoption. After all, the order takers are essentially just hitting pictures on a touch screen. Most consumers could handle that. Hell, some places you can do your order via phone app or online, and just swing by to pick it up.

Exactly.

People often simplify this issue to fast food. One particular subsector. There are many other examples. Secretaries and bookkeepers and small finance departments, for example. Those tasks are fairly rapidly becoming automation-ready. Our phones can schedule things on our calendar almost as easily as picking up a phone and telling a secretary to do it. Financial and accounting software is rapidly becoming able to automatically receive money online and do most of the coding and recording of revenues and expenses. Between a subscription to a software company and its services, and electronic banking tools the big banks are increasingly offering, entire accounting, clerk, secretarial, bookkeeper job classes, and eventually entire departments, will eventually become automated.

And I'm not saying we should shun these advancements or cling to old inefficient ways of doing things. But if we push the minimum for labor up a lot faster, it will just expedite the exploration, adoption and investment in these more automated and computerized options. And hell, maybe that's a good thing, but it certainly flies in the face of the left wing's reasons for advocating minimum wage hikes, which often boil down to the welfare of the typical low wage worker.

 

[Kushinator]

thank you for showing that you were wrong.

Wrong about what? You made a claim that raising the minimum wage will lead to huge massive inflation. I am quoting your redundant comment word for word.

Trying to equate a singular instance to overall inflation fails on multiple accounts.

 

[Deuce]

You are. You're stuffing your head into the sand and insisting the price of labor has no effect on the decision to instead buy and use its alternative, and repeatedly claim everything that can be automated already is, and that everything that isn't, can't be. This is absurd flat away.

Yeah man when I told you the effect is non-zero what I was really saying is that it's zero. YOU FOUND ME OUT

 

[Deuce]

On-going maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. I suspect the model for manufacturers of such devices would be to sell them at cost or low profit, and make up for it with maintenance contracts. It also means the RD cost would be lower: it's a great deal easier to design and build a reliable device that will be maintenanced monthly than one is "set and forget", or even user serviceable.

And yes, I did estimate numbers, but that is what is required to determine at what wage price point it makes sense to replace workers. Few people are professionally weaving fabric by hand anymore, because even million dollar industrial grade machines are more economical per unit cost.

Another example: it is eminently feasible to develop an automated lawn mower, sort of a beefed up roomba with blades. However, a reasonably reliable and safe one would probably cost multiple thousands if not tens, plus maintenance and operating costs. It's a hard sell when a 200 dollar mower and 20 bucks for a teenager will get your lawn cut every week for the foreseeable future.

Now, at 7.50 an hour, there doesn't seem to be an economic incentive to replace workers. At 15, certain classes of jobs it doesn't make sense not to replace them. We've seen that to some extent with cashiers, as well as bank tellers, and fast food places are ripe for that sort of mass adoption. After all, the order takers are essentially just hitting pictures on a touch screen. Most consumers could handle that. Hell, some places you can do your order via phone app or online, and just swing by to pick it up.

What machine are you envisioning that costs $50k/year in maintenance? How much do you spend per year on your car?

I've operated aircraft with lower maintenance costs than that.

"Tens of thousands" for a souped up roomba? Are you serious? Again. Car.

 

[Moderate Right]

Giving low wage folks a raise does not seem like such a great plan to encorage them to move out of state.

In fact, these states and areas doing this are going to have an influx in workers coming across borders to get the higher wage, taking jobs away from those that already live in the area.

 

[Phys251]

 

[Henrin]

Wow, look at the long history of economic coercion by liberals.

 

[Phys251]

Wow, look at the long history of economic coercion by liberals.

Why are you opposed to child labor laws, equal pay for equal work laws, and other common-sense labor laws?

 

[Henrin]

Why are you opposed to child labor laws, equal pay for equal work laws, and other common-sense labor laws?

Simple.

Children have the right to work and employers have the right to pay people what they see fit.

 

[Phys251]

Simple.

Children have the right to work and employers have the right to pay people what they see fit.

So you'd be okay with returning to the days of nine-year-olds in factories, having them work at machines that from time to time would cut their fingers off?

 

[Henrin]

So you'd be okay with returning to the days of nine-year-olds in factories, having them work at machines that from time to time would cut their fingers off?

I'm opposed to a policy that bans a group of people from working. How am I not being clear on the matter?

 

[radcen]

I'm opposed to a policy that bans a group of people from working. How am I not being clear on the matter?

A simple "Yes" would have sufficed.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I'm opposed to a policy that bans a group of people from working. How am I not being clear on the matter?

I think being absolutist on this child labor issue gives credence to the left wing slippery slope argument that, if we don't have big government and big unions meddling in and encumbering every element of labor throughout the country, we'll regress to a period of rampant slavery and exploitation.

So I don't think you'll find a lot of support of this blanket opposition. This particular "group" isn't recognized as competent to contract with others. We don't let them do all sorts of things that adults can do. Society regards them as dependents and takes up guardianship of them if their parents fail in or abandon their responsibilities. The rights of a dependent are inherently different from the political rights of an adult. That distinction is important.

 

[rocket88]

So you'd be okay with returning to the days of nine-year-olds in factories, having them work at machines that from time to time would cut their fingers off?

As long as it isn't his kids, yes.

 

[Phys251]

I'm opposed to a policy that bans a group of people from working. How am I not being clear on the matter?

And no worker safety laws for children, either?

 

[mike2810]

and the people of Compton or Lodi are going yea. The ones in SanFran not so much.:mrgreen:

Even in CA the cost of living is not uniform. Stupid idea for CA to put it out State wide.

 

[radcen]

and the people of Compton or Lodi are going yea. The ones in SanFran not so much.:mrgreen:

Even in CA the cost of living is not uniform. Stupid idea for CA to put it out State wide.

California has always had a state-wide minimum.

Since it was initiated, of course.

 

[jet57]

California lawmakers approve hiking minimum wage to $15



The beginning of fairness.

Really. So $15 an hour in 2022 will be worth what, when we adjust for inflation?

 

[JoeTrumps]

California is a great example of what happens when liberals have total power. a total financial mess that borders on the ridiculous. and Obama has spent 7 years pushing the entire COUNTRY down the same fateful road. four years of Hillary will probably be enough to nail the coffin.

good times

 

[Mr Person]

A simple "Yes" would have sufficed.

That wouldn't sound (self-?)righteously anti-government, though.

 

[haymarket]

You are!

Because if you're like most of us, you're not going to flip burgers under crappy demeaning conditions seven days a week, for starvation wages and no benefits.

So now you're gonna' give a little back, for what you enjoy.

Sound fair?

You can always fire-up the Weber if you disagree ...

Best answer of the day. Well done.

 

[Master PO]

You are!

Because if you're like most of us, you're not going to flip burgers under crappy demeaning conditions seven days a week, for starvation wages and no benefits.

So now you're gonna' give a little back, for what you enjoy.

Sound fair?

You can always fire-up the Weber if you disagree ...

well most of us are not starting out in the job market which is where MW is, so anyone trying to create a life on their own from that kind of job in in the wrong place to begin with.

if people wish to paid more thats on them, however those that don't thats on the increase, a lost of business.

i don't live in CA, however my days of eating anything fast food is drawing closer to an end because of how expense it is, for what you get.

it will only take a short amount of time, to see what prices will come out of this, and from you already stated it going to be more "you're gonna' give a little back".

as for the disagree, its not the companies who would wants to raise prices, but action caused by the state legislature of the state, who think its their job to make peoples lives better.

 

[SDET]

Yes. I'm a supporter of comprehensive price and wage regulation. My concern with the minimum wage raisers is that they're in a vicious circle. Minimum wage hikes will simply be met by price increases, unless those also are restricted.

You must be a youngster. I remember Nixon and Ford's "Whip Inflation Now" (WIN). It just meant shortages and "inventing" new products such as weird meat cuts to circumvent the controls.

 

[Paleocon]

You must be a youngster. I remember Nixon and Ford's "Whip Inflation Now" (WIN). It just meant shortages and "inventing" new products such as weird meat cuts to circumvent the controls.

As far as I can tell from a Google search, WIN was a voluntary program. Of course it didn't work, as you can never get enough people on board with something like that voluntarily to matter.