• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Atheists Seek Chaplain Role in the Military

tryreading

tryreading

Steve
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
4,809
Reaction score
764
Location
Central Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Didn't see this posted anywhere else. Proper and open counseling for atheist troops. It seems fair and necessary to me, but the Chaplaincy? Is that the way to do this? I don't know...





Atheists Seek Chaplain Role in the Military


Strange as it sounds, groups representing atheists and secular humanists are pushing for the appointment of one of their own to the chaplaincy, hoping to give voice to what they say is a large — and largely underground — population of nonbelievers in the military.

...

At the same time, an atheist group at Fort Bragg called Military Atheists and Secular Humanists, or MASH, has asked the Army to appoint an atheist lay leader at the base. A new MASH chapter at Fort Campbell, Ky., is planning to do the same as are atheists at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida.

...

Atheist and secular humanist groups in the military are hardly new. But at some bases, they have become better organized and more vocal in recent years.

...

“I support the idea that religious soldiers need support from religious chaplains,” he said. “But there has to be a line between supporting religious soldiers and promoting religion.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/27atheists.html
 
What is the difference between atheist counseling and any old secular counselor?
 
LuckyDan said:
What is the difference between atheist counseling and any old secular counselor?
Click to expand...

The same one between religious counseling and any old religious counselor.


Having said that, I really don't think this is necessary. Atheism isn't a religion, it's merely a lack of a belief in a god - why should it be treated as more than it is?
 
iamitter said:
The same one between religious counseling and any old religious counselor.


Having said that, I really don't think this is necessary. Atheism isn't a religion, it's merely a lack of a belief in a god - why should it be treated as more than it is?
Click to expand...

Which is my point.

That said, why are secular counselors not sufficient for atheist service people?
 
LuckyDan said:
Which is my point.

That said, why are secular counselors not sufficient for atheist service people?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think they are, but if the quote
“I support the idea that religious soldiers need support from religious chaplains,” he said. “But there has to be a line between supporting religious soldiers and promoting religion.”
is accurate, well, that pretty much justifies it.
 
iamitter said:
I wouldn't think they are, but if the quote
“I support the idea that religious soldiers need support from religious chaplains,” he said. “But there has to be a line between supporting religious soldiers and promoting religion.”
is accurate, well, that pretty much justifies it.
Click to expand...

Chaplains accomodate people of faith. Not quite a promotion of faith. And even if so, what of it? What accomodations do atheists lack?
 
What's the difference between a Catholic and a Jewish chaplain? I'd imagine that's similar to the difference between a regular chaplain and a secular chaplain.
 
Befuddled_Stoner said:
What's the difference between a Catholic and a Jewish chaplain?
Click to expand...

A catholic, a jewish and an atheist chaplain walk into a bar...


We're doing religious jokes, right?
 
Last edited:
This is funny. I've always said atheism is a religion in itself and now they want their own ministers.
 
Tha hell do nonbelievers need chaplains for? What would an atheist service look like lol.
 
tryreading said:
Didn't see this posted anywhere else. Proper and open counseling for atheist troops. It seems fair and necessary to me, but the Chaplaincy? Is that the way to do this? I don't know...





Atheists Seek Chaplain Role in the Military


Strange as it sounds, groups representing atheists and secular humanists are pushing for the appointment of one of their own to the chaplaincy, hoping to give voice to what they say is a large — and largely underground — population of nonbelievers in the military.

...

At the same time, an atheist group at Fort Bragg called Military Atheists and Secular Humanists, or MASH, has asked the Army to appoint an atheist lay leader at the base. A new MASH chapter at Fort Campbell, Ky., is planning to do the same as are atheists at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida.

...

Atheist and secular humanist groups in the military are hardly new. But at some bases, they have become better organized and more vocal in recent years.

...

“I support the idea that religious soldiers need support from religious chaplains,” he said. “But there has to be a line between supporting religious soldiers and promoting religion.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/27atheists.html
Click to expand...



The official Military term for that is: Oxymoron.
 
X Factor said:
This is funny. I've always said atheism is a religion in itself and now they want their own ministers.
Click to expand...

That's part of the issue with the MASH thing. Atheism isn't a religion, so what does atheism have to do with religion or God or the Chaplaincy? Yet, how does it relate to anything but?
 
Athiesm is a religion that worships the belief that there is no God
 
Chaplains give far more than religious guidance. I don't think having an Atheist Chaplain is a good idea, but rather a general chaplain who isn't inherently tied to one religion. You don't have to believe in a particular faith to give spiritual comfort to someone who does, especially on the battlefield.
 
Bigfoot 88 said:
Athiesm is a religion that worships the belief that there is no God
Click to expand...

I have heard that before, but it usually comes from Christians.

Anyway, as somebody else on this site said before, saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.
 
This is just too ridiculous.

It's like a blind Forward Observer, a deaf Radio Telephone Operator, or a 'Marriage Councilor for People Who Never Intend to Marry or Cohabit'.
 
Goshin said:
This is just too ridiculous.

It's like a blind Forward Observer, a deaf Radio Telephone Operator, or a 'Marriage Councilor for People Who Never Intend to Marry or Cohabit'.
Click to expand...


Like priests?

Only those ignorant of atheism would make such non-statements. The title is "Chaplain", the role is not necessarily solely religious, but ALL-encompassing.
 
Last edited:
Manc Skipper said:
Like priests?

Only those ignorant of atheism would make such non-statements. The title is "Chaplain", the role is not necessarily solely religious, but ALL-encompassing.
Click to expand...

Many atheists are quite judgmental of people who have religious beliefs. Can you imagine what would happen if the chaplain was Scourge and a Christian soldier went to him for spiritual advice?
 
Befuddled_Stoner said:
What's the difference between a Catholic and a Jewish chaplain? I'd imagine that's similar to the difference between a regular chaplain and a secular chaplain.
Click to expand...

Actually in the military there's no difference whatsoever between a Catholic and Jewish chaplain except that they can hold services for their faith, all other functions like counseling, Soldier support, advice, etc etc are perform by chaplains to all service members regardless of that Soldiers faith, or lack of one. An atheist Soldier seeking advice on how to start a family for example can go to any chaplain and receive the same support he would as a religious Solder. The only difference there is that a chaplain could help a religious Soldier start a family under the rules and expectations of his religion, but since there are no such rules or expectations for atheists since its not a religion I could hardly see the need for an atheist Soldier to need someone close by who can give assistance in raising a family the atheist way.
 
Wiseone said:
Actually in the military there's no difference whatsoever between a Catholic and Jewish chaplain except that they can hold services for their faith, all other functions like counseling, Soldier support, advice, etc etc are perform by chaplains to all service members regardless of that Soldiers faith, or lack of one. An atheist Soldier seeking advice on how to start a family for example can go to any chaplain and receive the same support he would as a religious Solder. The only difference there is that a chaplain could help a religious Soldier start a family under the rules and expectations of his religion, but since there are no such rules or expectations for atheists since its not a religion I could hardly see the need for an atheist Soldier to need someone close by who can give assistance in raising a family the atheist way.
Click to expand...

But there are rules for everybody, and the atheist considers his as important to him as anybody else does.

So maybe the atheist wants an authority figure he can identify with, necessarily someone he can consult for advice who does not believe in a supernatural being, because there would be disconnect between them otherwise. He would seek out a person who operates and thinks on a secular basis, and who would provide guidance without claiming influence from a 'higher power.' Also, he would want a person who would never attempt to steer him toward a God or religion of any kind.
 
I expect it is a plan by some athiest cranks wanting to get some religous folks upset

Imagine being a priest who believes in god having to attend to an athiest comforting the athiest with the idea their is no god.


That paradox would I believe upset the cleric more then having to attend to a person of a different relgion.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I expect it is a plan by some athiest cranks wanting to get some religous folks upset

Imagine being a priest who believes in god having to attend to an athiest comforting the athiest with the idea their is no god.


That paradox would I believe upset the cleric more then having to attend to a person of a different relgion.
Click to expand...

You don't have to suspect, just read the article. There are troops who are either atheists or secular humanists who want the new service:

At the same time, an atheist group at Fort Bragg called Military Atheists and Secular Humanists, or MASH, has asked the Army to appoint an atheist lay leader at the base. A new MASH chapter at Fort Campbell, Ky., is planning to do the same as are atheists at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida.

...

Atheist and secular humanist groups in the military are hardly new. But at some bases, they have become better organized and more vocal in recent years.
 
I guess I don't really understand what a military chaplain's role is well enough to understand why atheists feel that they need them. Are they the military's version of psychiatric or family counselor's? Or are they basically just a priest or pastor in uniform?
 
I don't get it either . . . what does an atheist have to offer . . .
eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die ??
PS: how many toys have you collected ??



​
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom