Yes, I am partisan and a Leftist

YES, hell YES, I am partisan.

I am, after all, a liberal Snowflake, and a Canadian to boot.

Despite that, I voted for the Conservatives in our last provincial election (Ontario).

But all you get to hear on forums like this one is how corrupt the other side is. Downright evil, even. Hence why the States has problems we thankfully don't have (at least not to the degree Americans have).

Intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, and hyper-partisan where EVERYTHING my guy does or says is acceptable and EVERYTHING your guy says is foolish and stupid.

However, being the partisan leftie that I am, there is no equivalency. There might be some dishonest politicians on the Left, some corrupt ones, kooky ones. There might be some leftist views that might be seen as wonky. Woke. Too catering.

But NO WHERE is the outright dishonesty, the outright ugliness, the outright bigotry, the outright childishness MORE evident than on the Right.

Plain and simple, full stop.

I honesty believe they really DO want a police state where they can control women, tell private enterprises what they can or can not advertise, where they would gladly loosen laws on police brutality, and insert their religious beliefs into schools. They would not only ban abortions, but Drag shows, numerous books and movies, even gay marriage - IF they ever got complete control of all branches of government.

So, yeah, I am partisan. I am a Leftist. Because I don't want a country, whether mine or yours, to be run by people who are control freaks. I don't want a country where elections are deemed "stolen" if the vote isn't to their liking or where they would love to deny a whole swath of people the vote. And are willing to use violence to meet their ends.

Period.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I did label it "extreme." Do you think it is not?

The left has its problem with rights, too, namely those concerning speech and property. In fact, let’s look at extreme left ideology, Marxist socialism.

You said it, you own it.

 

[NatMorton]

You said it, you own it.

I own saying it, and I fully stand by it. It is an extreme left wing ideology, and it's led to the slaughter of 10s of millions of people over the last 100 years.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I own saying it, and I fully stand by it. It is an extreme left wing ideology, and it's led to the slaughter of 10s of millions of people over the last 100 years.

Yup, and the "left" in the US are Marxist. And the countries I listed are Marxist. I repeat: TO YOU anyone left of far right is Marxist.
Use words unwisely and it reflects on you, not your target.

You will double down now which is fine with me, I have other fish to fry. Cheers.

 

[NatMorton]

Yup, and the "left" in the US are Marxist. And the countries I listed are Marxist. I repeat: TO YOU anyone left of far right is Marxist.
Use words unwisely and it reflects on you, not your target.

You will double down now which is fine with me, I have other fish to fry. Cheers.

I suggest you read what I said and not base your opinions on what you merely imagine I said or mean.

I also said the left, and by that I mean today's American left, lacks proper respect for both speech and property rights, and I stand by that statement, too.

 

[jpevans]

I will repeat it again. As a generalization, conservatives think liberals are people with bad ideas. Liberals think conservatives are bad people with ideas. This axiom is proven out day after day here on DP.

& MAGA is Mean for the sake of being Mean. IMO

 

[NatMorton]

& MAGA is Mean for the sake of being Mean. IMO

Tell us about the mean people.

 

[Mr Person]

Everyone has political beliefs and wants those beliefs to prevail, not others. They are a "strong supporter" of their own beliefs. Who isn't, among people who are capable of deciding what to do and thus actually get out the door in the morning?

The idea that it's somehow bad to be strongly in favor of a set of beliefs and that it's good to be above-it-all and completely-neutral has always struck me as being deeply stupid.



What's bad is partisan hackery. That's different. That's an inherent dishonesty. A self-blinding. A repetition of whatever you're told by the narrow slice of media you consume (and if you're a partisan hack, you do consume just a narrow slice). Tribalism above all else. The worst I've seen is in Trumpism, but then today's Trumpists were yesterdays Tea Party. Etc.

Let's not conflate the two.

 

[NatMorton]

Everyone has political beliefs and wants those beliefs to prevail, not others. They are a "strong supporter" of their own beliefs. Who isn't, among people who are capable of deciding what to do and thus actually get out the door in the morning?

The idea that it's somehow bad to be strongly in favor of a set of beliefs and that it's good to be above-it-all and completely-neutral has always struck me as being deeply stupid.



What's bad is partisan hackery. That's different. That's an inherent dishonesty. A self-blinding. A repetition of whatever you're told by the narrow slice of media you consume (and if you're a partisan hack, you do consume just a narrow slice). Tribalism above all else. The worst I've seen is in Trumpism, but then today's Trumpists were yesterdays Tea Party. Etc.

Let's not conflate the two.

A quick test. Can you name a policy position, or two, you hold on a controversial matter that doesn’t neatly align with the narrow slice of opinions that can be found on, say, MSNBC or the Boston Globe’s editorial page?

 

[American]

A quick test. Can you name a policy position, or two, you hold on a controversial matter that doesn’t neatly align with the narrow slice of opinions that can be found on, say, MSNBC or the Boston Globe’s editorial page?

Leftism, by definition, is tribalism. They are made up of tribes cobbled together under the umbrella of VICTIMHOOD. It's their religion really. There's zero accountability in their religion. And their solution is always socialism.

 

[American]

YES, hell YES, I am partisan.

I am, after all, a liberal Snowflake, and a Canadian to boot.

Despite that, I voted for the Conservatives in our last provincial election (Ontario).

But all you get to hear on forums like this one is how corrupt the other side is. Downright evil, even. Hence why the States has problems we thankfully don't have (at least not to the degree Americans have).

Intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, and hyper-partisan where EVERYTHING my guy does or says is acceptable and EVERYTHING your guy says is foolish and stupid.

However, being the partisan leftie that I am, there is no equivalency. There might be some dishonest politicians on the Left, some corrupt ones, kooky ones. There might be some leftist views that might be seen as wonky. Woke. Too catering.

But NO WHERE is the outright dishonesty, the outright ugliness, the outright bigotry, the outright childishness MORE evident than on the Right.

Plain and simple, full stop.

I honesty believe they really DO want a police state where they can control women, tell private enterprises what they can or can not advertise, where they would gladly loosen laws on police brutality, and insert their religious beliefs into schools. They would not only ban abortions, but Drag shows, numerous books and movies, even gay marriage - IF they ever got complete control of all branches of government.

So, yeah, I am partisan. I am a Leftist. Because I don't want a country, whether mine or yours, to be run by people who are control freaks. I don't want a country where elections are deemed "stolen" if the vote isn't to their liking or where they would love to deny a whole swath of people the vote. And are willing to use violence to meet their ends.

Period.

We know, you didn't need to confess, though it's refreshing. I've always admitted I'm conservative, actually it's more like libertarian conservative. But I'm sure you could tell.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

They are made up of tribes cobbled together under the umbrella of VICTIMHOOD.

OMG, talk about irony!

We lost an election, it must have been rigged.
Teachers are providing books WE don't approve of.
WE want a say in how a woman decides what to do with her pregnancy.
We will storm our Capitol if our guy asks us to.
We believe Drag Queens are all groomers and LGBTQ people are freaks.
We want to take away school lunches and health care for the poor.

Sound familiar? Should I go on?

Now Hunter Biden has made a deal with the Feds, all I hear from Righties is how unfair the Justice Dept is and how biased they are and .............well................ endless whining.

And YOU think Liberals cobble together under the umbrella of VICTIMHOOD??

That is some serious irony right there!

 

[NatMorton]

Sound familiar? Should I go on?

Yes, please. It was really starting to get funny when you stopped.

 

[Perotista]

YES, hell YES, I am partisan.

I am, after all, a liberal Snowflake, and a Canadian to boot.

Despite that, I voted for the Conservatives in our last provincial election (Ontario).

But all you get to hear on forums like this one is how corrupt the other side is. Downright evil, even. Hence why the States has problems we thankfully don't have (at least not to the degree Americans have).

Intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, and hyper-partisan where EVERYTHING my guy does or says is acceptable and EVERYTHING your guy says is foolish and stupid.

However, being the partisan leftie that I am, there is no equivalency. There might be some dishonest politicians on the Left, some corrupt ones, kooky ones. There might be some leftist views that might be seen as wonky. Woke. Too catering.

But NO WHERE is the outright dishonesty, the outright ugliness, the outright bigotry, the outright childishness MORE evident than on the Right.

Plain and simple, full stop.

I honesty believe they really DO want a police state where they can control women, tell private enterprises what they can or can not advertise, where they would gladly loosen laws on police brutality, and insert their religious beliefs into schools. They would not only ban abortions, but Drag shows, numerous books and movies, even gay marriage - IF they ever got complete control of all branches of government.

So, yeah, I am partisan. I am a Leftist. Because I don't want a country, whether mine or yours, to be run by people who are control freaks. I don't want a country where elections are deemed "stolen" if the vote isn't to their liking or where they would love to deny a whole swath of people the vote. And are willing to use violence to meet their ends.

Period.

Perhaps all this negativity which fills our airways during any election campaign, tell us how corrupt, how evil the other side is, that they’re the worst scumbags on the face of the earth, even the universe is why very little Americans trust their own government regardless of which party is in power or who is president. Currently only 20% of all Americans have trust in their own government even though they elected them.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/06/06/public-trust-in-government-1958-2022/

If you take a look at our elected leaders, they all are looked at very negatively. As are the institutions of congress, the presidency and the SCOTUS.

RealClearPolitics - Favorability Ratings: Political Leaders

RealClearPolitics - Favorability Ratings: Political Leaders

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[NatMorton]

A quick test. Can you name a policy position, or two, you hold on a controversial matter that doesn’t neatly align with the narrow slice of opinions that can be found on, say, MSNBC or the Boston Globe’s editorial page?

@Mr Person, just a reminder that upstairs criticism directed at others needs to be credible. Will you be answering this question anytime soon?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

@Mr Person, just a reminder that upstairs criticism directed at others needs to be credible. Will you be answering this question anytime soon?

upstairs? this isn't the basement.

 

[NatMorton]

upstairs? this isn't the basement.

Um, ya. That's the point.

 

[JasperL]

I will repeat it again. As a generalization, conservatives think liberals are people with bad ideas. Liberals think conservatives are bad people with ideas. This axiom is proven out day after day here on DP.

There's a difference between "conservative" and, say, MAGAs. There are plenty of 'conservatives' who have I believe bad ideas but are intellectually honest and our differences are, essentially, in our priorities. I don't believe those people are bad, although I might disagree with some of their opinions.

What we are seeing today on the "right", which is the GOP headed up by Trump, simply is not a representation of 'conservative' ideas. Trump is the unquestioned leader of the GOP as we speak and he's simply not a conservative, and his rabid supporters aren't conservatives. Trump is defined by his determined ignorance, and his mean streak, and his narcissism, dishonesty, disregard for the rule of the law and any norms of society or governance. He's a bigot - straight up. A crook, liar, womanizer, serial adulterer. When in business, he's proud of having screwed small contractors by suing them, and jamming in cuts to agreed on services and prices by force, which shows the contempt he actually regards for working people - marks to be ****ed over whenever and however he can. He's a supposed billionaire with a BLANK SLATE for charitable giving. You can't name one charity he's supported that wasn't directly tied to advancing his own interests. His own foundation was a criminal scam, which of course isn't surprising at all to anyone who knows the man. His so-called university was scam that targeted vulnerable people - totally predictable. He's run several fundraising scams during and after office. Because of course he did - stealing money from the rubes is who he is. I can't recall a worse "person" to have ever occupied the White House, although there might be one in the distant past. A pretty shocking number of those HE APPOINTED to high office have the same opinion of him, and say so, publicly.

So if you define 'conservative' as a MAGAs or MAGA lites, sure, I think many are in fact bad people because they line up in support of a person I regard as a horrible human being, in basically every way related to ethics, principles, morals, human decency, empathy. I don't see how 'good' people line up behind such a bad person. This genuinely mystifies me. And the GOP, what you're calling 'conservatives' is running towards that overall world view versus against it.

So, yeah, if you want to understand the 'generalization' then understand what I just explained. It has nothing whatever to do with conservative ideas or those who hold them. It's the trend to remake the GOP the new MAGA party, that reflects the values or lack of them of the leader, Trump.

 

[NatMorton]

There's a difference between "conservative" and, say, MAGAs. There are plenty of 'conservatives' who have I believe bad ideas but are intellectually honest and our differences are, essentially, in our priorities. I don't believe those people are bad, although I might disagree with some of their opinions.

What we are seeing today on the "right", which is the GOP headed up by Trump, simply is not a representation of 'conservative' ideas. Trump is the unquestioned leader of the GOP as we speak and he's simply not a conservative, and his rabid supporters aren't conservatives. Trump is defined by his determined ignorance, and his mean streak, and his narcissism, dishonesty, disregard for the rule of the law and any norms of society or governance. He's a bigot - straight up. A crook, liar, womanizer, serial adulterer. When in business, he's proud of having screwed small contractors by suing them, and jamming in cuts to agreed on services and prices by force, which shows the contempt he actually regards for working people - marks to be ****ed over whenever and however he can. He's a supposed billionaire with a BLANK SLATE for charitable giving. You can't name one charity he's supported that wasn't directly tied to advancing his own interests. His own foundation was a criminal scam, which of course isn't surprising at all to anyone who knows the man. His so-called university was scam that targeted vulnerable people - totally predictable. He's run several fundraising scams during and after office. Because of course he did - stealing money from the rubes is who he is. I can't recall a worse "person" to have ever occupied the White House, although there might be one in the distant past. A pretty shocking number of those HE APPOINTED to high office have the same opinion of him, and say so, publicly.

So if you define 'conservative' as a MAGAs or MAGA lites, sure, I think many are in fact bad people because they line up in support of a person I regard as a horrible human being, in basically every way related to ethics, principles, morals, human decency, empathy. I don't see how 'good' people line up behind such a bad person. This genuinely mystifies me. And the GOP, what you're calling 'conservatives' is running towards that overall world view versus against it.

So, yeah, if you want to understand the 'generalization' then understand what I just explained. It has nothing whatever to do with conservative ideas or those who hold them. It's the trend to remake the GOP the new MAGA party, that reflects the values or lack of them of the leader, Trump.

Sorry, but I haven't found that a meaningful distinction when it comes to how the left see's the right. I do not support Trump and my observations absolutely pre-date 2015.

A garden variety progressive simply can't stand criticism of, for example, affirmative action for very long before he trots out a charge of racism. Question the effectiveness of the welfare state? You hate the poor. Prefer judges to interpret existing law and not manufacture new law? You're against minority rights and want to bring women back to the time of the Dark Ages. It seems to be a compulsion. If you express a political view that differs from theirs they simply must explain it away as a character flaw. You can pretty much set your watch by it as soon as the debate starts.

 

[JasperL]

Sorry, but I haven't found that a meaningful distinction when it comes to how the left see's the right. I do not support Trump and my observations absolutely pre-date 2015.

I can't control your opinions, or know what you believed in 2015 since you only started posting here in 2020, well into the MAGA era when Trump was and had been for years the leader of the Republican party. And you're making this observation in 2023, and I'm just telling you how in this era, and for the entire era you've been posting on DP and we can see your views in print, that there's a huge distinction between 'conservative' versus MAGA/GOP.

A garden variety progressive simply can't stand criticism of, for example, affirmative action for very long before he trots out a charge of racism.

How can I address that? I have no idea who is a garden variety 'progressive' and you don't quote anyone so you've erected this fictional character with made up views you've conjured into this discussion to smear generally all 'progressives.'

Just on that particular topic - 'affirmative action' - there are in fact examples of white Christian people who enjoyed basically CENTURIES of 'affirmative action, by law, all across my area of the country and now seem all upset that some black student gets preferential treatment on an application to the local university that in 1960 would have excluded every black applicant, by LAW.

It is 'racist' to oppose affirmative action? No, it's not, but when the same person basically doesn't even acknowledge the history of affirmative action for white straight Christians that operated in this country for 200 years, or the impact of that on society in general, including generations of people, then I don't much give a shit what they think about 'affirmative action' today. That's the anti-CRT complaint in a nutshell, and you might understand the intolerance for it, if you cared to think about it for a few minutes.

We had a since banned member on here who opposed 'affirmative action' but in the next breath defended legacy admissions to the Ivy League, that he admittedly benefitted from. So was he opposed to affirmative action, except for rich white legacy boys like him? Who knows, but you might understand the intolerance about THAT guy's views on affirmative action that amounted to - well, I the rich white straight male born into the lucky sperm club deserved it, but THEY do not!!

Question the effectiveness of the welfare state? You hate the poor.

Again, how can I address that because you quote no one. But I'll say this - if you oppose the 'welfare state' then at the least you should have some way society can deal with the poor that will always be with us. Take medical care - fine, oppose universal healthcare. Now then you tell me how a person working a low wage job without nice bennies at work and employer subsidized insurance with no bump in premiums for pre-existing conditions can afford $1,000/month or $2,000 per month for insurance for them and their children, or how they get medical care other than the ER then running out on the bill. If there are no ideas - let them beg maybe? - then do you 'hate' the poor? No, but you also have no way to address a critical problem facing the poor. If that's expressed in a way you interpret as an allegation you 'hate' them then that's too bad, but I have a feeling you're confused by those kinds of responses. Maybe the correct way to phrase it is you don't care enough about the 'poor' to give a damn how they get healthcare.

Prefer judges to interpret existing law and not manufacture new law? You're against minority rights and want to bring women back to the time of the Dark Ages.

Again, that determination is in the eye of the beholder. It's entirely possible that we sincerely believe on principle that laws criminalizing abortion, outlawing it, is in fact to drag women back to the Dark Ages when men got to decide what they, women, could do in matters critical to their own well being, the well being of their family, and more.

It seems to be a compulsion. If you express a political view that differs from theirs they simply must explain it away as a character flaw. You can pretty much set your watch by it as soon as the debate starts.

I'll believe you have a sincere belief about that when you start calling out the right wingers on here and how THEY refer to those with views left of them as Marxists, commies, woke, etc. Just on this thread we have a guy alleging schools, broadly, of teaching neo-Marxism and indoctrinating students to hate families, and themselves. Where's your outrage?

 

[The Mark]

I will repeat it again. As a generalization, conservatives think liberals are people with bad ideas. Liberals think conservatives are bad people with ideas. This axiom is proven out day after day here on DP.

Actually I think plenty of the GOP are currently bad people with bad ideas.
Not so sure about conservatives, I tend to think most actual conservatives are just people with ideas I usually disagree with.

But the current GOP aren't conservatives, they're just crazy.

 

[JasperL]

Actually I think plenty of the GOP are currently bad people with bad ideas.
Not so sure about conservatives, I tend to think most actual conservatives are just people with ideas I usually disagree with.

But the current GOP aren't conservatives, they're just crazy.

That's the point - the GOP as it exists in DC at least is not anything I'd recognize as conservative. It's MAGAs and MAGA apologists and MAGA cowards, so....bad people IMO. There are a few exceptions that the MAGAs, or as we call them today, the Republican core base, despise.

 

[NatMorton]

That's the point - the GOP as it exists in DC at least is not anything I'd recognize as conservative. It's MAGAs and MAGA apologists and MAGA cowards, so....bad people IMO. There are a few exceptions that the MAGAs, or as we call them today, the Republican core base, despise.

Over 74 million people voted for Trump in 2020. All bad people?

 

[The Mark]

Over 74 million people voted for Trump in 2020. All bad people?

Personally, I think most of them were misled into thinking he was the least worst of two terrible options.
But a decent chunk have bought into the bullshit narrative the nutjob wing of the GOP is pushing and I'm really not sure how to fix it.

 

[JasperL]

Over 74 million people voted for Trump in 2020. All bad people?

You do a very bad job of reading posts, or are deliberately missing the point. Either way, I obviously wasted my time actually taking your post seriously. You didn't bother to do the same in return, which I should have expected I guess. Shame on me for wasting my time!

For everyone else's benefit, I'm drawing a distinction between how I feel about MAGA morons, the Trump ass kissers, the Trump sycophants, the Trump enablers doing so for their own selfish interests, or those two cowardly to stand up to those idiots, versus actual conservatives, but you insist on pretending to be confused about that basic point.

 

[NatMorton]

You do a very bad job of reading posts, or are deliberately missing the point. Either way, I obviously wasted my time actually taking your post seriously. You didn't bother to do the same in return, which I should have expected I guess. Shame on me for wasting my time!

For everyone else's benefit, I'm drawing a distinction between how I feel about MAGA morons, the Trump ass kissers, the Trump sycophants, the Trump enablers doing so for their own selfish interests, or those two cowardly to stand up to those idiots, versus actual conservatives, but you insist on pretending to be confused about that basic point.

In your view, what’s the difference between a Trump voter and a “MAGA moron?” (And how do you tell them apart?)