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Would your opinion of democrats change if...

bongsaway

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?
 

tres borrachos

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

I hope they do. Not because I give a **** about this stupid wall, but because I'm tried of hearing about it.
 

Captain America

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Nope. They still suck, IMO. (Just not as bad as the Republican's suck, at this point in time.)
 

Stealers Wheel

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Yes, it would change. Our government was formulated specifically so that one man would not, could not, become a despotic dictator. Right now the senate is abdicating their responsibility to be a co-equal branch. The Dems in the House are the only thing standing between the president and total dictatorial rule.

If they cave, it means that from now on, all any president has to do to get their way on any legislation is simply shutdown the government until the opposition goes away. The Founding Fathers never intended the president to have this kind of power. That is why the House holds the purse strings.

While you may very well agree with Trump and his policies, do you really want to set a precedent for future presidents?
 

RetiredUSN

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Democrats are every bit as vile as the Republicans when it comes to honesty and integrity.

The wall won't change a thing IMO.
 

Threegoofs

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I hope they do. Not because I give a **** about this stupid wall, but because I'm tried of hearing about it.

If they do, you’ll really be sick of hearing what Trump extorts from them the next time. Ad the next time.

That’s why caving on this pinnacle of stupidity is a bad idea.
 

OrphanSlug

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

If this happened my opinion of Democrats would of course change, for the worse. They would by effect be complicit in hijacking the government.
 

armycowboy

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Yes, it would change. Our government was formulated specifically so that one man would not, could not, become a despotic dictator. Right now the senate is abdicating their responsibility to be a co-equal branch. The Dems in the House are the only thing standing between the president and total dictatorial rule.

If they cave, it means that from now on, all any president has to do to get their way on any legislation is simply shutdown the government until the opposition goes away. The Founding Fathers never intended the president to have this kind of power. That is why the House holds the purse strings.

While you may very well agree with Trump and his policies, do you really want to set a precedent for future presidents?

Agreed. Trump has no desire to govern, instead he wants to rule. If the Democrats in the House cave, they will be allowing Trump to rule.
 

ttwtt78640

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Nope, I would still insist that demorats, like republicants, are still determined to continue to allow US "job creators" to employ many millions of illegal immigrants and are unwilling to remove 12M (to 20M) illegal immigrants from the US interior.

It should be obvious to all that the primary motivation for illegal immigration is that US wages are many times that of wages in their homelands. It would be illogical for someone not to seek a US job (especially in a sanctuary state/city) which paid as much for one day of work as a similar job paid for one week of work in their homeland. Once we add UHC and "free" college to the benefits of US residency that draw will increase significantly.
 

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

My opinion would change if Dems stepped up to a microphone and were honest about why they now do not support a "wall". I mean, unvarnished and brutally honest.

"Yes, we voted repeatedly to fund the "wall" (fence), and yes, we repeatedly were in lock step with what Trump is saying now about needing border security to control illegal immigration. However, we hate Donald Trump with the heat of 1000 suns and are doing everything in our power to destroy him and any chance he has of winning in 2020, so we can get a Democrat back in the White House. Of course we realize we look like feckless hyper-partisans who have no cogent reason to reject a position we took for many, many years, but we don't value any of you enough to tell you that the only reason we've done a 180 is for political expediency. We know the wall isn't immoral. That's a bunch of baloney! But we care more about getting Trump out of office than we do your safety, your country and your tax dollars to make you Priority #1"

Oh, yes my opinion would change!
 

apdst

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Nope...
 

ttwtt78640

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I hope they do. Not because I give a **** about this stupid wall, but because I'm tried of hearing about it.

Would you say the same if demorats did the same for granting amnesty (or a "path to citizenship") to illegal immigrants - do as we demand or we will not fund (parts of) the federal government? The precedent that such actions would establish are frightening.
 

Captain America

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My opinion would change if Dems stepped up to a microphone and were honest about why they now do not support a "wall". I mean, unvarnished and brutally honest.

"Yes, we voted repeatedly to fund the "wall" (fence), and yes, we repeatedly were in lock step with what Trump is saying now about needing border security to control illegal immigration. However, we hate Donald Trump with the heat of 1000 suns and are doing everything in our power to destroy him and any chance he has of winning in 2020, so we can get a Democrat back in the White House. Of course we realize we look like feckless hyper-partisans who have no cogent reason to reject a position we took for many, many years, but we don't value any of you enough to tell you that the only reason we've done a 180 is for political expediency. We know the wall isn't immoral. That's a bunch of baloney! But we care more about getting Trump out of office than we do your safety, your country and your tax dollars to make you Priority #1"

Oh, yes my opinion would change!

You mean kinda like the GOP did to Obama? At least, the GOP admitted it so you do have a valid point.

Ain't payback a mother****er?
 

tres borrachos

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Would you say the same if demorats did the same for granting amnesty (or a "path to citizenship") to illegal immigrants - do as we demand or we will not fund (parts of) the federal government? The precedent that such actions would establish are frightening.

I answered the OP's question.
 

Mycroft

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

What's that old saying? Something about looking a gift horse in the mouth?
 

ttwtt78640

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I answered the OP's question.

Yes you did and I pointed out the likely consequences of getting tired of opposing a given policy demand and simply accepting it as the better (less tiring?) course of action.
 

tres borrachos

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Yes you did and I pointed out the likely consequences of getting tired of opposing a given policy demand and simply accepting it as the better (less tiring?) course of action.

Thank you. But again, I answered the OP"s question. I'm not talking about a slippery slope or what may happen, but I'm sure others would love to.
 

OlNate

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Yeah, it would...I'd think they were just as stupid as Trump is.
 

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They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Yes, to some degree. Five billion dollars is but a very small drop in the bucket and Democrats would have zero qualms about spending 5 billion dollars so the price tag is not the problem. The anti-Trumpness at any cost is the problem. Democrats need to get rid of the resistance and start running the country instead of having a policy of resistance. If they did that I would respect them more. I don't expect them to rubber stamp everything Trump but get rid of this resistance thing.
 

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Yes, it would change. Our government was formulated specifically so that one man would not, could not, become a despotic dictator. Right now the senate is abdicating their responsibility to be a co-equal branch. The Dems in the House are the only thing standing between the president and total dictatorial rule.

If they cave, it means that from now on, all any president has to do to get their way on any legislation is simply shutdown the government until the opposition goes away. The Founding Fathers never intended the president to have this kind of power. That is why the House holds the purse strings.

While you may very well agree with Trump and his policies, do you really want to set a precedent for future presidents?

That's totally ridiculous nonsense.
 

Moderate Right

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My opinion would change if Dems stepped up to a microphone and were honest about why they now do not support a "wall". I mean, unvarnished and brutally honest.

"Yes, we voted repeatedly to fund the "wall" (fence), and yes, we repeatedly were in lock step with what Trump is saying now about needing border security to control illegal immigration. However, we hate Donald Trump with the heat of 1000 suns and are doing everything in our power to destroy him and any chance he has of winning in 2020, so we can get a Democrat back in the White House. Of course we realize we look like feckless hyper-partisans who have no cogent reason to reject a position we took for many, many years, but we don't value any of you enough to tell you that the only reason we've done a 180 is for political expediency. We know the wall isn't immoral. That's a bunch of baloney! But we care more about getting Trump out of office than we do your safety, your country and your tax dollars to make you Priority #1"

Oh, yes my opinion would change!

Exactly. When Obama builds a wall it is fine, when Trump does it, it is because he is a racist, bigoted, dictator.
 

ttwtt78640

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Thank you. But again, I answered the OP"s question. I'm not talking about a slippery slope or what may happen, but I'm sure others would love to.

That "slippery slope or what may happen" is quite obvious - give the party with majority control of either the Senate or House and the POTUS whatever they want or the federal government will no longer be funded. In this case, it's "only" $5B of additional borrowing to pretend to keep a campaign promise - but I am looking ahead to much more costly (and radical?) campaign promises being kept by employing this (extortion?) "fund X or else" technique.
 

tres borrachos

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That "slippery slope or what may happen" is quite obvious - give the party with majority control of either the Senate or House and the POTUS whatever they want or the federal government will no longer be funded. In this case, it's "only" $5B of additional borrowing to pretend to keep a campaign promise - but I am looking ahead to much more costly (and radical?) campaign promises being kept by employing this (extortion?) "fund X or else" technique.

For the last time, I answered the OP. Will my opinion of the Democrats change if they offer $5 billion for the wall? The answer is yes, it will, because we can stop talking about the wall.

Please, ttwtt, engage someone else about the what ifs on my answer to a very simple question. Okay?
 

ttwtt78640

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Exactly. When Obama builds a wall it is fine, when Trump does it, it is because he is a racist, bigoted, dictator.

Adding 25% (220 miles?) to a partial border "wall" which can be gone over, under or around is not addressing visa overstays, requests for asylum or that illegal immigrants are rewarded with employment opportunity, free K-12 education (including ESL/ELL programs) and a decent chance of getting amnesty and/or UHC in the (near?) future.
 

bongsaway

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Nope, I would still insist that demorats, like republicants, are still determined to continue to allow US "job creators" to employ many millions of illegal immigrants and are unwilling to remove 12M (to 20M) illegal immigrants from the US interior.

It should be obvious to all that the primary motivation for illegal immigration is that US wages are many times that of wages in their homelands. It would be illogical for someone not to seek a US job (especially in a sanctuary state/city) which paid as much for one day of work as a similar job paid for one week of work in their homeland. Once we add UHC and "free" college to the benefits of US residency that draw will increase significantly.

By your reasoning would that infer the people who hire undocumented workers are as bad as congress?
 
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