Would your opinion of democrats change if...

[ttwtt78640]

By your reasoning would that infer the people who hire undocumented workers are as bad as congress?

One clearly depends on the other. If congress did not permit (the 100%) deduction of the cost of employing illegal immigrant labor then it would no longer be profitable to do so.

 

[bongsaway]

My opinion would change if Dems stepped up to a microphone and were honest about why they now do not support a "wall". I mean, unvarnished and brutally honest.

"Yes, we voted repeatedly to fund the "wall" (fence), and yes, we repeatedly were in lock step with what Trump is saying now about needing border security to control illegal immigration. However, we hate Donald Trump with the heat of 1000 suns and are doing everything in our power to destroy him and any chance he has of winning in 2020, so we can get a Democrat back in the White House. Of course we realize we look like feckless hyper-partisans who have no cogent reason to reject a position we took for many, many years, but we don't value any of you enough to tell you that the only reason we've done a 180 is for political expediency. We know the wall isn't immoral. That's a bunch of baloney! But we care more about getting Trump out of office than we do your safety, your country and your tax dollars to make you Priority #1"

Oh, yes my opinion would change!

Where to begin with that pack of double-talk? You don't want the dems to step up and say ok here's the money for you wall? You're more interested in hearing why they won't pay for it? Well, trump said mexico was paying. How is one in lock step with a person they hate with the heat of a thousand suns? That to me is where the dems and R's differ. The dems are willing to negotiate the republicans are willing to shut down the country for what they want. He repeatedly said mexico was paying, now he's telling you you're paying. If I said I just got a new car and you're paying, what would you think?

 

[bongsaway]

Would you say the same if demorats did the same for granting amnesty (or a "path to citizenship") to illegal immigrants - do as we demand or we will not fund (parts of) the federal government? The precedent that such actions would establish are frightening.

I posted a question a couple days ago. Republicans for whatever reasons only hear wall, wall, wall, they completely dismiss the part where mexico was paying. So I asked, hey neighbor I just got a new car and you're paying. What do ya' think my neighbors response would be? I got like two answers.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I posted a question a couple days ago. Republicans for whatever reasons only hear wall, wall, wall, they completely dismiss the part where mexico was paying. So I asked, hey neighbor I just got a new car and you're paying. What do ya' think my neighbors response would be? I got like two answers.

My issue is not with the cost, since it is minor in the grand scheme of our ever increasing federal (deficit) spending, but to the technique being used to get that additional (deficit) spending added.

The larger issue, of course, is that we are going about solving the problem of illegal immigration or contraband (mainly highly profitable recreational drugs) entering the country in a very inefficient manner.

 

[bongsaway]

One clearly depends on the other. If congress did not permit (the 100%) deduction of the cost of employing illegal immigrant labor then it would no longer be profitable to do so.

So your argument is it's legal and people hiring them are doing it so they don't have to pay a living wage to an american worker? Cheaper labor. Well see to me, there's legal and there's what's the right thing to do.

It's like the iowa farmers who vote republican hire undocumented workers and then vote for trump and support the wall and then hope ICE doesn't show up at their farm. Maked no sense.

 

[bongsaway]

My issue is not with the cost, since it is minor in the grand scheme of our ever increasing federal (deficit) spending, but to the technique being used to get that additional (deficit) spending added.

The larger issue, of course, is that we are going about solving the problem of illegal immigration or contraband (mainly highly profitable recreational drugs) entering the country in a very inefficient manner.

How about we start cutting down on the drug issue by legalizing cannabis for a start?

 

[independentusa]

They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

Depends what they get for it. Permanent status for DACA and I do not give a damn about the stupid wall. I would be against spending any more on it in the future and once he gets his 5.7 billion and decides he has won, I don't think Trump will go after any more.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So your argument is it's legal and people hiring them are doing it so they don't have to pay a living wage to an american worker? Cheaper labor. Well see to me, there's legal and there's what's the right thing to do.

It's like the iowa farmers who vote republican hire undocumented workers and then vote for trump and support the wall and then hope ICE doesn't show up at their farm. Maked no sense.

It's simply a business decision to many "job creators" who see profits rise if labor cost growth can be controlled (limited?). It is also a business decision on the part illegal immigrants - why not move to the US if they can make as much by working one day there as they could by working a week in their homeland?

The chances of ICE showing up are slim since we have about 10X as many federal airport nannies (TSA agents) as we do ICE/ERO agents patrolling the entire US interior. The name, address and SSN/ITIN of all (W-2 and 1099) employees in the US is known to IRS already - how hard would it be to run that personnel data through E-Verify and simply change the federal income tax code to deny the "job creator" any direct labor cost tax deduction for using illegal immigrant labor?

 

[bongsaway]

It's simply a business decision to many "job creators" who see profits rise if labor cost growth can be controlled (limited?). It is also a business decision on the part illegal immigrants - why not move to the US if they can make as much by working one day there as they could by working a week in their homeland?

The chances of ICE showing up are slim since we have about 10X as many federal airport nannies (TSA agents) as we do ICE/ERO agents patrolling the entire US interior. The name, address and SSN/ITIN of all (W-2 and 1099) employees in the US is known to IRS already - how hard would it be to run that personnel data through E-Verify and simply change the federal income tax code to deny the "job creator" any direct labor cost tax deduction for using illegal immigrant labor?

Job creators for undocumented workers and then you call it a business decision and then moan about those same 'illegal workers'. Which one is it? And does our federal government use the same false info workers at trump's places of business use?

 

[ttwtt78640]

How about we start cutting down on the drug issue by legalizing cannabis for a start?

That would do little except change the product line to favor more heroin (or other synthetic opiates), cocaine, ecstasy and meth. The rationale of many would likely become - if the government has lied to us for decades about the extreme danger of marijuana's (currently a class I dangerous substance) recreational use then they were likely lying about the dangers of using other recreational drugs as well.

 

[bongsaway]

That would do little except change the product line to favor more heroin (or other synthetic opiates), cocaine, ecstasy and meth. The rationale of many would likely become - if the government has lied to us for decades about the extreme danger of marijuana's (currently a class I dangerous substance) recreational use then they were likely lying about the dangers of using other recreational drugs as well.

That's what I like about the folks who support republican-ish issues. It's better to do nothing than try anything. Don't upset the balance just moan and groan about it and say if you do that then this negative will happen.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Job creators for undocumented workers and then you call it a business decision and then moan about those same 'illegal workers'. Which one is it? And does our federal government use the same false info workers at trump's places of business use?

I am unable to decipher that word salad. For the most part these illegal immigrant workers are "documented" - in the sense that they have supplied name, address, photo ID and SSN/ITIN information to both their employer and to IRS. It should not be incumbent on the employer to verify the validity of that federally required information.

 

[bongsaway]

I am unable to decipher that word salad. For the most part these illegal immigrant workers are "documented" - in the sense that they have supplied name, address, photo ID and SSN/ITIN information to both their employer and to IRS. It should not be incumbent on the employer to verify the validity of that federally required information.

So the 'illegal immigrant workers' are documented. If they are illegal how did they get into america and become documented?

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's what I like about the folks who support republican-ish issues. It's better to do nothing than try anything. Don't upset the balance just moan and groan about it and say if you do that then this negative will happen.

I am perfectly willing to try removing prohibition of all recreational drugs - so long as it is not coupled with a mandate to treat recreational drug abuse (addiction) as a medical problem demanding public funding.

 

[Acadia]

Where to begin with that pack of double-talk? You don't want the dems to step up and say ok here's the money for you wall? You're more interested in hearing why they won't pay for it? Well, trump said mexico was paying. How is one in lock step with a person they hate with the heat of a thousand suns? That to me is where the dems and R's differ. The dems are willing to negotiate the republicans are willing to shut down the country for what they want. He repeatedly said mexico was paying, now he's telling you you're paying. If I said I just got a new car and you're paying, what would you think?

Dems approved funding, in fact, MORE funding for MORE wall.
Look, IF they agree on an amount to fund the 'wall', it'll come with more bs talking points.

My point, which you seemed to have missed, is that I would like above all else, honesty. You see, it's one thing to piss on my leg and tell me that it's raining. It's quite another to take a bloody great **** all over me without the courtesy of a weather report.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So the 'illegal immigrant workers' are documented. If they are illegal how did they get into america and become documented?

Many overstayed 'temporary' visas and others use fake (fraudulent) IDs. Perhaps you have heard of identity theft.

Many immigrants have ITINs. People who do not have a lawful status in the United States may obtain an ITIN.

https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...out-individual-tax-identification-number-itin

Nearly 60 million Americans have been affected by identity theft, according to a 2018 online survey by The Harris Poll. That same survey indicates nearly 15 million consumers experienced identity theft in 2017.

https://www.lifelock.com/learn-identity-theft-resources-how-common-is-identity-theft.html

 

[HumblePi]

There's a whole host of problems that will not be resolved by keeping the government shut down. These are things that will take months to hammer out, if they ever are. The 800k people affected absolutely cannot be put off much longer or there will be some serious consequences for both parties. I keep thinking over and over, this is exactly what Putin strove for and has achieved.

Trump doesn't really care one way or another about illegals, he doesn't really care about a wall, about DACA or about anything. 'Trumpism' is a psychology, not an ideology. There's only one goal for Trump, money and power at any cost. There has been only one goal for Russia, divide the U.S. and weaken them.

All this stuff about DACA, the Wall, Amnesty, Budget, Crisis, Caravans and blah blah blah, is noise. The noise had to be loud enough to deafen, divert and blind the American public as to what was really happening in this country and was that it has been hijacked. It was hijacked by rich men with power that want to be richer men with more power. That's the bottom line and it's not changing any time soon.

 

[Lycanthrope]

My opinion of the Democratic Party wasn't great to begin with, but if they given that bloated con man 5 billion dollars in US taxpayer money to fund this boondoggle they've proven themselves no better than him.

And don't think for a moment that you give Donald 5 billion and the wall is magically funded. They'll be asking for a another 5 billion down the line. And another, and another.

 

[bongsaway]

I am perfectly willing to try removing prohibition of all recreational drugs - so long as it is not coupled with a mandate to treat recreational drug abuse (addiction) as a medical problem demanding public funding.

That's a step forward. However with that thinking, I can see the private prison industry booming. With all the hard drugs we have sitting around this country as evidence we could supply addicts with their drugs or provide them for little cost compared to them running around robbing everything in sight and then finally going to prison where the taxpayer still pays. That seems like a no win situation. Every time an addict comes in for their drug they should be encouraged to get treatment and hopefully end their addiction.

 

[bongsaway]

There's a whole host of problems that will not be resolved by keeping the government shut down. These are things that will take months to hammer out, if they ever are. The 800k people affected absolutely cannot be put off much longer or there will be some serious consequences for both parties. I keep thinking over and over, this is exactly what Putin strove for and has achieved.

Trump doesn't really care one way or another about illegals, he doesn't really care about a wall, about DACA or about anything. 'Trumpism' is a psychology, not an ideology. There's only one goal for Trump, money and power at any cost. There has been only one goal for Russia, divide the U.S. and weaken them.

All this stuff about DACA, the Wall, Amnesty, Budget, Crisis, Caravans and blah blah blah, is noise. The noise had to be loud enough to deafen, divert and blind the American public as to what was really happening in this country and was that it has been hijacked. It was hijacked by rich men with power that want to be richer men with more power. That's the bottom line and it's not changing any time soon.

Everyone who hasn't and is able should watch...'get me roger stone'.

 

[bongsaway]

Many overstayed 'temporary' visas and others use fake (fraudulent) IDs. Perhaps you have heard of identity theft.



https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...out-individual-tax-identification-number-itin



https://www.lifelock.com/learn-identity-theft-resources-how-common-is-identity-theft.html

So the wall is going to stop identity theft also? And people overstaying their visas didn't 'break into the country illegally' will the wall stop people from overstaying their visas?

 

[Cardinal]

They stepped up to the microphone and announced for the benefit of the country we have decided to give the president his five billion for the wall?

After that, would there even be a Democratic Party anymore?

Anybody who believes this is only about re-opening government or a wall has an exceptionally one-dimensional understanding of this conflict.

 

[Cardinal]

I hope they do. Not because I give a **** about this stupid wall, but because I'm tried of hearing about it.

There are three things I can promise will happen if Democrats give him his wall:

1) There will be more shutdowns.
2) You will arrive at the conclusion that endless, back-to-back shutdowns are a whole lot more nauseating than a wall.
3) You will miss the day that Congress was an equal branch within the Federal government.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's a step forward. However with that thinking, I can see the private prison industry booming. With all the hard drugs we have sitting around this country as evidence we could supply addicts with their drugs or provide them for little cost compared to them running around robbing everything in sight and then finally going to prison where the taxpayer still pays. That seems like a no win situation. Every time an addict comes in for their drug they should be encouraged to get treatment and hopefully end their addiction.

You seem to have gone from decriminalization (legalization?) to free or subsidized supply of recreational drugs at taxpayer expense in a very short time span. This is why many "Progressives" tend to scare folks. First make X not a crime, then declare X to be a "right" and finally demand that "access to" X be subsidized by the taxpayers.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So the wall is going to stop identity theft also? And people overstaying their visas didn't 'break into the country illegally' will the wall stop people from overstaying their visas?

Absolutely not which is why building the Great Wall Of Trump (now only 220 miles of it?) is a foolish idea.