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Why does the world allow ISRAEL to "GET AWAY WITH IT" ??

Nexus

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doughgirl said:

The world seems to be ganging up on Israel arent they? Just watch the news on television, listen to the radio.

when Israel retaliates and kill civilians………they are the ones who look bad. Hezbollah knows full well that they are endangering their own people……….BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Israel has a right to defend themselves. They have a right to hit targets where the enemy is, even if that is among civilians.

Look how Israel is portrayed in this article?

Now tell me where I exaggerated?……….I posted quotes from people denouncing Israel. People who want to destroy them.

That's about the way I read it. How the media can be manipulated so easily is beyond my comprehension.

You see it's all Israel's fault for building those bomb shelters and protecting their citizens. If there were no bomb shelters, they would be more Israeli bodies. Now Hezbollah on the other hand, places no value on the lives of women and children so there is no need for bomb shelters. They are worth much more dead than alive for propaganda purposes.
 

doughgirl

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“The middle east simply does not want all jews dead. period. We can dance around and talk about extremists and specifics groups, or even polls but any way you look at it the Middle East does not want all jews dead. So please don't try to lecture me after making a statement like that.”

And how do you know this? The only thing I will change about my comment is to say…………..”majority” of them want Jews dead.


Radical Islamic terrorists have said there will never be peace for the West until the Palestinians achieve their objectives. And what are those objectives?

They will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals. Palestinians terrorists have learned very well how to use civilians as both swords and shields. They target Israeli and Jewish citizens and then hide behind Palestinian civilians when the Israeli army comes after them. Just happened yesterday. They use noncombatants as an aide to combatants. The result…..israel must choose between employing self-defense tactics, like air strikes that risk killing large numbers of noncombatants among whom the combatants are hiding or employ tactics such as door-to-door combat that risk the lives of their own soldiers. What should they do? You do what is in the best interest of your soldiers not the enemy.

Why did we bomb Pearl Harbor? To show weakness or strength? I think the US government wanted to finish the war quickly.... with minimal casualties. No ones knows for sure but it probably saved lives on both sides. So what should Israel do? show weakness or strength? should they listen to the world by backing off? IMO no, not if they want to survive.

I just dont know what the answer is.....I certainly am no military strategist.

I also don’t care what you say, today Israel is the only hub of the free world in the Middle East and its battling for survival surrounded by hostile dictatorships and terrorists.

Until 9-11 the Middle East really never was an issue in America. We didn’t need to know about what went on over there. It really didn’t concern us. And until the events of the Gulf war and now the war against terrorism, the map of the middle east just did not matter. I doubt the majority of Americans could even identify where Afganistan was…. And probably most couldn’t do it today. However we as a nation know now that we are directly involved. What happens in the Middle East does matter and we had better not hide our heads in the sand and take pro-active ways to protect ourselves. Why wait until we face another 9-11 and we make world headlines again. The Middle East affects our security and we had better as a country start learning about the religion of Islam, what the religion is and why it acts as it does. 9-11 made it very clear that we in the West can no longer live in isolation from the East. We had better understand why the Israli-Palestinian conflict is at the center of the problems in the MiddleE…. and that future is tied directly to our future.

Israel is our only dependable ally in the Middle East. We must show solidarity with them.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Auftrag said:
Stop giving me your bullshit. Israel has oppressed the Palestinian people and broken countless UN resolutions, it is perfectly clear and logical to understand and assert that what Israel has done in Lebonan and in Palestine has flamed muslim aggression.

Furthermore, tell me, is bombing a house and killing 40 people, 21 of them children in proportion?
Can't handle truth, can you. This is growing tiring. You consistently avoid topics and refuse to substantiate. As someone who, obviously, has been taught anti-Jew rhetoric, I recognize that you will not change your views. It would be nice, however if you could substantiate a few of them. You use words like 'oppression' without understanding their meaning or looking at the big picture.

Let's start from the beginning...I'll try to be as brief as possible:

The Ottoman Empire ruled Palestine, until defeated after WWI. At that point, based on the Palestine Mandate, passed by the League of Nations, Great Britian was to administrate Palestine and secure a homeland for Jews. The Balfour Declaration identifies this and both discussed the Jewish homeland and the fact that civil and religious rights of both non-Jews in the Jewish state and Jews in orhter parts of Palestine would be upheld. Jewish immigration then proceeded (the popuation was already 11% Jewish). As anti-Semitism grew in Europe, it spread to the Middle East. Jews were often terrorized in Arab countries or forced to leave. They were treated poorly by many of the Arabs they lived along side of in Palestine and by the Brittish.

During WWII, The Brittish refused immigration of Jews escaping Nazi extermination to Palestine. The Brittish tended to be pro-Arab in many of the conflicts both due to their concerns of the instability of many of the Arab countries, elimination of Arab support for the Allies, and, especially, reduction/elimination of oil support. The Jewish cause was not helped by terrorist attacks and assasinations on Brittish soldiers and politicians.

After WWII, with increasing U.S. pressure, the Brittish decided to terminate the madate in 1948. At this point, UNSCOP was formed, the organization that was to decide the fate of Palestine. The came up withthe partition plan, whereas part of Palestine was to be the Jewish homeland and part was to be Arabian. The proposal recognized that there would end up being Jews in the Arab partition and Arabs in the Jewish partition. They indicated that these two groups needed each other economically and that working together helped both groups. They did not recommend anyone move. The Jewish Agency in stating their case to the U.N. encourage continued Arab residency and stated that no Arabs would be displaced by the partition (UNSCOP report, Chap. 2 Sect. D Para, 133 & 134). Arabs rejected the UNSCOP report and the U.N. resolution it spawned. Since Arabs refused to accept this, an Arab state of Palestine was never created.

Even after the 1948 war, where Arab countries attacked Israel, unprovoked (again, as stated in the U.N. resolution, no Arabs were required to leave). Palestinian Arabs were again told that they were not required to leave, just to "live in peace with their neighbors". This is stated in U.N. Resolution 194, a resolution rejectd by all Arab states. Israel has been accused of oppressing Palestinian Arabs a refusing to allow them to live in Israel or to have "the right of return". The resolution is clear on this; if they agree to live in peace with their neighbors. Palestinian Arabs and all Arab countries, at the time, were committed to the destruction of Israel. Doesn't sound like wanting to "live in peace with their neighbors" to me. It is certain that many Arab Palestinians left Israel. Some were, undobtedly expelled. It is improtant to note that one would not encourage someone, aimed at your destruction, to live in your country.

The plight of Palestinian Arabs is a direct result of their refusal to abide by UNSCOP or by Resolution 194. Israel has consistently responded to Arabic aggression.

I hope this educates you on this situation. I do not expect you to 'get it', but to, rather retort with some anti-Jewish rhetoric which, only shows biased, undocumented facts which you seem infamous for.

Here are the links to non-biased UN documents:

UNSCOP
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/07175de9fa2de563852568d3006e10f3!OpenDocument

Resolution 194
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/a06f2943c226015c85256c40005d359c/c758572b78d1cd0085256bcf0077e51a!OpenDocument

BTW, you never answered my question. Define 'proportional response'.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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tecoyah said:
In proportion to What? Your Racism is clouding your limited capability to set a point Auftrag, and making you seem even more ignorant than normal (hard to imagine). Isreal is at War with an aggressor, Just as the proclaimed enemy is at war with them. In a war....you try to win, by killing the enemy. If by chance the enemy hides within a civilian infrastructure as a means of protecting its Military Machine....civilians will Die....Deal with it.
Take a close look at our current war in Iraq, or your fearless Hero Hitler for a lesson on what War actually means. Is it pretty...Hell No. But this is the reality faced in this conflict, that you decide to "Blame" one side because of racism, is telling of the rediculous limits in a corrupted mind.

Just a heads up .....if Uncle ever decides to finish this joke of a debate, and lives up to his promise to leave. You are my next target, unless of course you would rather just Get Out of here before this becomes a requirement.

This site does not care for blatant Racism....And Yes:

I'll be your Huckleberry


I'm not big enough..to put up with trash in my living room

Come on tecoyah. Let me have a turn removing a racist. I'l just go 'superhero' on him. :mrgreen:
 

Auftrag

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
This coming from an easily manipulated sheep with a submissive personality.

What on earth do you mean?
 

Auftrag

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tecoyah said:
And yours is blinded....which is far worse. It is self imposed.

Blinded by what exactly?
 

Auftrag

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CaptainCourtesy said:
Can't handle truth, can you.

You haven't provided me with any. You and your jewish comrades have done nothing except regurgitate jewish propaganda.

BTW, you never answered my question. Define 'proportional response'.

To be quite frank, I don't really care whether Israel blows Lebonan into the ground or vice versa.

However, what I meant was, when a terrorist organisation fires rockets at Israel, blowing up a residential building full of civilians is not a proportional response.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Ya not in '48 buddy and I know it's not the same the third reich was the aggressor nation Israel is defending themselves from Islamic-fascist scum and btw Israel was attacked by Lebanon, syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt and a outgunned a mere 1/2 million Jews managed to defeat the arab nations with populations numbering over 40 million.

And; furthermore, in the following wars launched against the Israelis the Arabs had the backing of the soviets so u.s. backing was not the deciding factor.

I'm not denying that jews aren't resiliant and whether they are superior to Muslims is, quite frankly, entirely inconsequential to me.

Needless to say, the world will be better place when they have smashed each other into the ground. If only the west would just leave them to it.

Jews and muslims fighting each other, it really does get old.
 

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Auftrag said:
However, what I meant was, when a terrorist organisation fires rockets at Israel, blowing up a residential building full of civilians is not a proportional response.


Hisb'allah is a genocidal organization that enjoys popular support among the Lebanese, with only 7% of the population wanting them disarmed. The PROPORTIONAL response, therefore, would be to commit genocide upon the Lebanese, or at leat 93%.

Obviously, the Israelis are not indulging in a proportional response.

I wonder, though. What is the proportional response to those who insist upon polluting discussion boards with their moronic hate speech?
 

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“Needless to say, the world will be better place when they have smashed each other into the ground. If only the west would just leave them to it.”

We are. You think the U.S or anyone else is calling the shots for Hezbollah or Israel? If so, who?

“Obviously, the Israelis are not indulging in a proportional response.”

When we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, was that a “proportional” response?
Why and who says they have to respond in a “proportional” way? Isn’t the object of war to win? If not what is the point.

The world doesn’t realize what dangers Israel faces today and have faced on a daily basis before this conflict began. When they attempt to defend themselves their actions are seen as acts of aggression.

They never should have agreed to cease fire……….they should have finished the job when they had the opportunity like we did in Japan.
 

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Auftrag said:
You haven't provided me with any. You and your jewish comrades have done nothing except regurgitate jewish propaganda.

You mean that we haven't done anything except state the facts?
 

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Auftrag said:
You haven't provided me with any. You and your jewish comrades have done nothing except regurgitate jewish propaganda.

More unsubstantiated rhetoric covering a failed argument. Show how the UN documents I have provided are 'Jewish propoganda'. It's amazing at how your racism leads to denial.



To be quite frank, I don't really care whether Israel blows Lebonan into the ground or vice versa.

However, what I meant was, when a terrorist organisation fires rockets at Israel, blowing up a residential building full of civilians is not a proportional response.[/quote]

All those civilians dying is horrible. But if we are talking about a 'proportional' response, the Israeli's were not targeting civilians, something that Hezbollah does do. Therefore, what Israel did was a less than 'proportional' response. If, however, Israel targeted civilians (which they did not), this would be a proportional response to Hezbollah's civilian targeting. Remember the Israeli hospital from a few days ago. Hezbollah certainly hids in civilain areas, creating the danger to the people of Lebanon. This is different from Israeli civilians being targeted in a place that cannot be confused for, what the UN calls, a dual-purpose facility.

Starting to get it yet?
 

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I admit, I have been rather lazy in providing evidence for my "rhetoric" but, well, your jews. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what you thought of my arguments.

Take that as you will.
 

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BudLizard101 said:
You mean that we haven't done anything except state the facts?

Quite.

What I mean is, you've stated facts insofar as the "jewish truth" goes.
 

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AUFTRAG.....said, "I admit, I have been rather lazy in providing evidence for my "rhetoric" but, well, your jews. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what you thought of my arguments.

Take that as you will."

Excuse me but I am a Christian, thank you.
 

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Auftrag said:
Blinded by what exactly?

Well, I was going to say Ignorance. But, After reading the last few posts, I'm going with Hatred infused Retardation of A Diseased Mind
 

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tecoyah said:
Well, I was going to say Ignorance. But, After reading the last few posts, I'm going with Hatred infused Retardation of A Diseased Mind

Does it make it easier for you to understand and rationalise my beliefs by telling yourself that I'm blinded and have a retarded diseased mind? It makes it "bareable" doesn't it?
 

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Auftrag said:
Does it make it easier for you to understand and rationalise my beliefs by telling yourself that I'm blinded and have a retarded diseased mind? It makes it "bareable" doesn't it?

Proclaiming outright that you're a racist doesn't help to dispell these opinions about you either ya know.
 

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Auftrag said:
I admit, I have been rather lazy in providing evidence for my "rhetoric" but, well, your jews.

I do applaude you for taking responsibility for not providing evidence. It is nice to see a small semblance of integrity in an otherwise propaganda-type debate style.
 

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Auftrag said:
Quite.

What I mean is, you've stated facts insofar as the "jewish truth" goes.

Again, I challenge you to show how UNSCOP is a 'Jewish truth'. These are facts that show the differences in how both the Israelis and Arabs have dealt with the situaiton in the Middle East for nearly 60 years. No major powers were part of the committee. Both Jewish and Arab positions were heard and debated. If you read the text, carefully, you can see that neither side was favored; all subsequent inequities have been caused by Arab refusal to accept UNSCOP's parameters and failure to accept certain provisions of Resolution 194.
 

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Crispy said:
Proclaiming outright that you're a racist doesn't help to dispell these opinions about you either ya know.

Actually, it makes him easier to understand and refute, since most racists debate from emotion and propaganda rather than facts. I do admire his intergrity with admitting it, though. Some around here consistently deny it, while, at the same time, their rhetoric is similair to Auftrag's. Those posters are worse.
 

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Crispy said:
Proclaiming outright that you're a racist doesn't help to dispell these opinions about you either ya know.

Being a racist is not the same as being mentally ill. I think you would find it impossible to get someone in the medical profession to confirm that opinion.
 

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Auftrag said:
Being a racist is not the same as being mentally ill. I think you would find it impossible to get someone in the medical profession to confirm that opinion.

Wow, something we agree on.
 

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Auftrag said:
Being a racist is not the same as being mentally ill. I think you would find it impossible to get someone in the medical profession to confirm that opinion.

Oh but we can make it way worse, only a man with a deficient self worth, a lack of assertiveness, and a delibertating submissive personality can be warped to the point that he espouses white power.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Oh but we can make it way worse, only a man with a deficient self worth, a lack of assertiveness, and a delibertating submissive personality can be warped to the point that he espouses white power.

I'm confident you don't actually believe any of that. Even you have the intelligence to see how illogical that assertion is. There is absolutely no link between my personality and my political beliefs and any suggestion to the contrary is ad hominem and should be ignored.

I also don't "espouse white power".
 
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