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Who thinks the state made the case for a murder2 conviction?

Has the case been made for a murder conviction?


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Grim17

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If it went to the jury today, would Zimmerman be convicted of Murder?
 

ric27

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If it went to the jury today, would Zimmerman be convicted of Murder?

No...not even for *disturbing the peace*

I have seen/heard, the testing of the evidence and the state did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. There's doubt....too much doubt to send a man to prison for 16 years to life

Jury must acquit George Zimmerman
 

pbrauer

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If it went to the jury today, would Zimmerman be convicted of Murder?

Admittedly I haven't followed this case very close at all, but I've always felt murder was a high bar to climb. So no, I don't think the state has made the case for a murder charge. I am open to a manslaughter though. I don't think Z life was in danger, his use of deadly force was not needed, IMO.
 

ttwtt78640

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The TM fan club will never concede that GZ is not guilty (of at least manslaughter). They will forever insist that under no circumstances is it "right" for an unarmed teenager to be killed, regardless of what forcible felony that they may choose to commit. They continue to view the use of deadly force, even in self defense, as a privilege reserved for the police and not a right of the average citizen.
 

Oceandan

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Admittedly I haven't followed this case very close at all, but I've always felt murder was a high bar to climb. So no, I don't think the state has made the case for a murder charge. I am open to a manslaughter though. I don't think Z life was in danger, his use of deadly force was not needed, IMO.

You might not think it was, in retrospect it may NOT have been medically speaking, in fact in hindsight it would be logical for MANY people to believe it was not. NONE of that matters LEGALLY. What matters LEGALLY and SPECIFICALLY in this case is, did George. Case law also supports George.

We are all entitled to opinions, that's not the LAW.
 

ttwtt78640

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Admittedly I haven't followed this case very close at all, but I've always felt murder was a high bar to climb. So no, I don't think the state has made the case for a murder charge. I am open to a manslaughter though. I don't think Z life was in danger, his use of deadly force was not needed, IMO.

I does not matter what you think. What matters is Florida law, which does not require that one's life be in danger in order to use deadly force in self defense.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
 

Oceandan

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The TM fan club will never concede that GZ is not guilty (of at least manslaughter). They will forever insist that under no circumstances is it "right" for an unarmed teenager to be killed, regardless of what forcible felony that they may choose to commit. They continue to view the use of deadly force, even in self defense, as a privilege reserved for the police and not a right of the average citizen.

Probably the MOST accurate statement I've heard. The facts don't matter, the law doesn't matter. For those who are TM fans, the only thing that matters is he didn't have a gun, George did and TM is dead. It wouldn't matter to them that TM was high on THC, that he was ONLY in Sanford because he was expelled from school for.......... a fistfight, that he ambushed someone instead of just going home, that he called George a "creepy ass cracker". None of that matters, in fact I'd be willing to wager even if George was in a coma in the hospital from the encounter they STILL wouldn't think he had the right to shoot TM.
 

Grim17

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What seems to be missing from this poll so far, are Martin supporters... Wonder why?
 

pbrauer

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You might not think it was, in retrospect it may NOT have been medically speaking, in fact in hindsight it would be logical for MANY people to believe it was not. NONE of that matters LEGALLY. What matters LEGALLY and SPECIFICALLY in this case is, did George. Case law also supports George.

We are all entitled to opinions, that's not the LAW.

I does not matter what you think. What matters is Florida law, which does not require that one's life be in danger in order to use deadly force in self defense.



Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Thank you folks for you information. If this is such a sure case as you seem to think it was, why didn't the judge end it yesterday?
 

Grim17

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Thank you folks for you information. If this is such a sure case as you seem to think it was, why didn't the judge end it yesterday?

For the same reason charges were filed in the first place.... It's too politically charged.
 

Oceandan

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Thank you folks for you information. If this is such a sure case as you seem to think it was, why didn't the judge end it yesterday?

Sigh......you are aware the "motion to acquit" following the state resting is, for all intents an purposes, a scripted part of a trial? The Judge wants the jury to rule, not herself. It's basically a way to pass the buck. Does it happen?? Sure. Was there truly a chance the Judge would grant the motion in THIS case?? LOL If you believe that I have a TON of oceanfront property in eastern Arizona at bargain prices!! Hurry before it's gone! (-;
 

grip

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The prosecution made it's biggest error in going for the M2 conviction and should've tried a case based on manslaughter. It would've been much more plausible and possible, now they appear to have overreached and missed big time.
 

Smeagol

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Civilly liable, yes. He decided police dispatch recommendations not to pursue was a bad idea. He ignored neighborhood watch training material and followed Martin. He never identified himself as a neighborhood watch captain leading Martin to understandably presume Zimmerman was a criminal threat and he needed to defend himself. The Sanford PD allowed him too much behind the scenes access to police headquarters average citizens do not have, feeding his fantasy of a cop wannabe. But I don't see criminal guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in my casual following of the case, so far. Of course, I'm not on the jury so I've missed most of the trial proceedings so I cannot say what the jury is thinking based on better information but based on my limited observations, an acquittal would be just then sue the crap out of Zimmerman, the HOA and the Sanford PD. All everybody has to do is hold a fundraiser on a conservative media outlet spun to make it out to be an anti-Al Sharpton pledge drive.
 

ttwtt78640

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Thank you folks for you information. If this is such a sure case as you seem to think it was, why didn't the judge end it yesterday?

The same reason that the state initially ignored the wishes of local prosecutors/police (who declined to bring charges) - political pressure. This case became about racial profiling and the private use of guns for self defense outside of one's home. If the state were to dismiss the case then they would be accused of racism and allowing "vigilantes" to use guns to execute thugs that did not "deserve to die". Since TM would likely have received at most a one year sentence for felony assault/battery, as a juvenile in Florida, these TM fans want the law to use deadly force against "young thugs" ignored/overturned.

The plain truth is that TM simply picked the wrong "creepy ass cracker" to "open a can of whoop-ass on" - you do not bring Skittles and an attitude to a gunfight twice.

Terani Law Firm - Juvenile Assault Battery, Criminal Defense
 

Oceandan

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Civilly liable, yes. He decided police dispatch recommendations not to pursue was a bad idea. He ignored neighborhood watch training material and followed Martin. He never identified himself as a neighborhood watch captain leading Martin to understandably presume Zimmerman was a criminal threat and he needed to defend himself. The Sanford PD allowed him too much behind the scenes access to police headquarters average citizens do not have, feeding his fantasy of a cop wannabe. But I don't see criminal guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in my casual following of the case, so far. Of course, I'm not on the jury so I've missed most of the trial proceedings so I cannot say what the jury is thinking based on better information but based on my limited observations, an acquittal would be just then sue the crap out of Zimmerman, the HOA and the Sanford PD. All everybody has to do is hold a fundraiser on a conservative media outlet spun to make it out to be an anti-Al Sharpton pledge drive.

Just so you know....
There were NO facts presented by the state in the ACTUAL case George disregarded NEN saying not to pursue. George responded affirmative.
There were NO facts presented by the state in the ACTUAL case George followed Trayvon for long than the FEW seconds on the recording when George said he was following and the NEN said we do not need you to do that.
There were NO facts presented by the state in the ACTUAL case George had an opportunity to "identify himself" due to being sucker punched after TM ambushed him and said "what's your problem m effer
There were NO facts presented by the state in the ACTUAL case George was given "behind the scenes access to the police department average citizens do not have".

While it was shown George took law enforcement courses, ONE of the instructors DID testify George wanted to be a lawyer and prosecutor, not a police officer.

At least you came to the conclusion George did not commit a crime.

I'd differ with you on the civil suit. I believe once acquitted there are a NUMBER of parties George can sue civilly, including NBC and CNN, spike lee, al sharpton et al.
 

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The prosecution made it's biggest error in going for the M2 conviction and should've tried a case based on manslaughter. It would've been much more plausible and possible, now they appear to have overreached and missed big time.

How do you figure, with Manslaughter being a lesser included offense?
 

grip

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How do you figure, with Manslaughter being a lesser included offense?

Because they based most of their evidence, proof and testimony on proving the worst of the offenses allowing the defense to easily rebuff their efforts and giving less credence to the lesser charges. If they had focused on proving the lesser of these crimes it would've made the evidence more believable and plausible, instead of a more heinous motive of M2. They lost credibility reaching too far making their own prosecution motive look less like unbiased justice.
 

Excon

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Because they based most of their evidence, proof and testimony on proving the worst of the offenses allowing the defense to easily rebuff their efforts and giving less credence to the lesser charges. If they had focused on proving the lesser of these crimes it would've made the evidence more believable and plausible, instead of a more heinous motive of M2. They lost credibility reaching too far making their own prosecution motive look less like unbiased justice.
Fair enough appraisal.
 

justabubba

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sharon needs to be invited to this thread

not like her to stay away and withhold her studied analysis
 

Josie

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I cannot imagine any jury - even a previously biased one - convicting Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder.
 

j-mac

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I don't see it...2nd degree was a huge overcharging in this.
 

MaggieD

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I don't see it...2nd degree was a huge overcharging in this.

I don't either. But if he's convicted of manslaughter, in this case the punishment is about the same.
 

sharon

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Probably the MOST accurate statement I've heard. The facts don't matter, the law doesn't matter. For those who are TM fans, the only thing that matters is he didn't have a gun, George did and TM is dead. It wouldn't matter to them that TM was high on THC, that he was ONLY in Sanford because he was expelled from school for.......... a fistfight, that he ambushed someone instead of just going home, that he called George a "creepy ass cracker". None of that matters, in fact I'd be willing to wager even if George was in a coma in the hospital from the encounter they STILL wouldn't think he had the right to shoot TM.

TM wasn't expelled.. He was suspended for ten days.

If GZ had followed me.. I might have called him a broadway b**stard.
 

Grim17

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TM wasn't expelled.. He was suspended for ten days.

If GZ had followed me.. I might have called him a broadway b**stard.

Thank you for voting yes sharon, because you just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that your beliefs are ideological and have nothing to do with the facts.
 
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