Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response? [W:377]

[matchlight]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

I have already shown that almost universally the decision is held as a moral travesty and un-Constitution just as Dred Scoot and Plessy were... they were later overturned when challenged and when this is eventually challenged it will be over turned as well...

Who would dare question the conclusion of someone who knows that "Dred Scoot" was "un-Constitution?" Drawing on your undoubted knowledge of constitutional law, you have shown us benighted souls that Korematsu "almost universally" is "held as a moral travesty." So if you expect the Court to overrule it, it must be a done deal. After all, that decision has only been around for seventy-one years.

 

[Excon]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Your reply to me is as odd as it is irrelevant because it does not refute anything I said.
But I will address it anyways.

I have already shown that almost universally the decision is held as a moral travesty and un-Constitution ...

No, you did not show any such thing. You provided an author who believed such, Matt Ford at the Atlantic.

So you definitely showed that is what the author believed, but neither you nor he showed it was "universally", "almost universally" or even "almost uniformly" accepted as such. And it is understandable why it wasn't shown given the needed space required to show the research let alone the time and effort it would take to do it.

Again, the point being that you did not show any such thing, not that the substance of the claim can't be shown, just that it wasn't. But again that is irrelevant to what I have said, so it matters not.

and when this is eventually challenged it will be over turned as well...

Eventually challenged?
Unless under Martial Law, (which couldn't be challenged), it is unlikely that this would ever be done again because of the advancements in surveillance.

So, under what possible circumstance do you see this ever becoming an issue again for it to be challenged?
I ask because your own link pretty much told you why it wont ever be challenged again.

Congress passed the Non-Detention Act in 1971, which unequivocally states, “No citizen shall be imprisoned or otherwise detained by the United States except pursuant to an Act of Congress,” to prevent future presidents from attempting it again.​

The law basically closes all avenues to such circumstances ever existing again in which it a challenge could even arise.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

At the time of the decision those were the right decisions and if reversed, would have caused great upheaval to this country.

That is just complete bull****. The decision to round up Japanese-American citizens because of mass hysteria that they are all Japanese citizens was not the right decision back then at all.

Mass hysteria should not ever trump due process.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

That is just complete bull****. The decision to round up Japanese-American citizens because of mass hysteria that they are all Japanese citizens was not the right decision back then at all.

Mass hysteria should not ever trump due process.

I am referring to slavery. At the time, the decision was fully justified.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

I am referring to slavery. At the time, the decision was fully justified.

Justifying an action is completely different from whether or not that action is right, which is my main point.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Justifying an action is completely different from whether or not that action is right, which is my main point.

And it was right, at the time.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

And it was right, at the time.

No, it was not. And the vast majority of people acknowledge that fact.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

No, it was not. And the vast majority of people acknowledge that fact.

If you took opinion polls at the time, most people overwhelmingly would have voted in support of slavery, including the slaves themselves. Slaves were viewed as inferior beings and prevalent thought which was accepted as a fact, at the time.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

If you took opinion polls at the time, most people overwhelmingly would have voted in support of slavery, including the slaves themselves. Slaves were viewed as inferior beings and prevalent thought which was accepted as a fact, at the time.

Wow. Just wow.

So in other words, it's a-ok because people thought they were racially superior?

And there were a good number of people who didn't think that was the case either.

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

If you took opinion polls at the time, most people overwhelmingly would have voted in support of slavery, including the slaves themselves. Slaves were viewed as inferior beings and prevalent thought which was accepted as a fact, at the time.

Leaving aside the stupidity at the end, did you know that the word "right" and the word "popular" mean entirely different things?

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Wow. Just wow.

So in other words, it's a-ok because people thought they were racially superior?

And there were a good number of people who didn't think that was the case either.

The slaves themselves thought they were racially inferior. That was simply how life was at the time.

Freeing the slaves would have caused bedlam. Where would the slaves have gone? With at least under their masters they had a roof under their head and were fed.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

The slaves themselves thought they were racially inferior. That was simply how life was at the time.

Freeing the slaves would have caused bedlam. Where would the slaves have gone? With at least under their masters they had a roof under their head and were fed.

So your claiming slavery was good, because "at least the slaves were fed and had a roof over their heads".

Wow.

Just when you think people can't get any lower.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

So your claiming slavery was good, because "at least the slaves were fed and had a roof over their heads".

Wow.

Just when you think people can't get any lower.

It was good because slaves if free, would have been killed and murdered. At least under the master's control they were protected. We are talking about the 1800's, a completely different time and era. You need to look at this from a historical perspective. Slavery was the morally acceptable and right thing to do. It kept America together and this country from falling apart... of course, at the time.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

It was good because slaves if free, would have been killed and murdered. At least under the master's control they were protected. We are talking about the 1800's, a completely different time and era. You need to look at this from a historical perspective. Slavery was the morally acceptable and right thing to do. It kept America together and this country from falling apart... of course, at the time.

Uh huh. Under the master's control, the slaves were "protected". :roll:

You obviously don't understand what slavery was like. At all.

Slavery isn't a morally acceptable thing to do, period. My historical perspective tells me that only those who were already vastly wealthy sought to keep slavery intact for the sake of making money.

And, of course, they've got their 21st century shills like you.

**** off.

Man, I hate people some days.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Uh huh. Under the master's control, the slaves were "protected". :roll:

You obviously don't understand what slavery was like. At all.

Slavery isn't a morally acceptable thing to do, period. My historical perspective tells me that only those who were already vastly wealthy sought to keep slavery intact for the sake of making money.

And, of course, they've got their 21st century shills like you.

**** off.

Man, I hate people some days.

If the slaves were freed in or 1857 or anytime before bedlam would have ensued and the country would likely cease to exist. Slavery was good because it was structured, it held the country together. After the civil, the necessary steps were taken to abolish slavery and slowly integrate blacks into our societies as equals.

Slavery was definitely a good thing. Without it, America would not exist.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

If the slaves were freed in or 1857 or anytime before bedlam would have ensued and the country would likely cease to exist. Slavery was good because it was structured, it held the country together. After the civil, the necessary steps were taken to abolish slavery and slowly integrate blacks into our societies as equals.

Slavery was definitely a good thing. Without it, America would not exist.

Oh, you have got to be ****ing with me.

Slavery most definitely didn't "hold the country together."

And America certainly would still exist.

 

[Bucky]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Oh, you have got to be ****ing with me.

Slavery most definitely didn't "hold the country together."

And America certainly would still exist.

Our economy was dependent on slavery, particularly in the agriculture and cotton field:

Let’s start with the value of the slave population. Steven Deyle shows that in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. cotton crop and forty-eight times the total expenditure of the federal government that year.” As mentioned here in a previous column, the invention of the cotton gin greatly increased the productivity of cotton harvesting by slaves. This resulted in dramatically higher profits for planters, which in turn led to a seemingly insatiable increase in the demand for more slaves, in a savage, brutal and vicious cycle.Let’s start with the value of the slave population. Steven Deyle shows that in 1860, the value of the slaves was “roughly three times greater than the total amount invested in banks,” and it was “equal to about seven times the total value of all currency in circulation in the country, three times the value of the entire livestock population, twelve times the value of the entire U.S. cotton crop and forty-eight times the total expenditure of the federal government that year.” As mentioned here in a previous column, the invention of the cotton gin greatly increased the productivity of cotton harvesting by slaves. This resulted in dramatically higher profits for planters, which in turn led to a seemingly insatiable increase in the demand for more slaves, in a savage, brutal and vicious cycle.

The Role Cotton Played in the 1800s Economy | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Our economy was dependent on slavery, particularly in the agriculture and cotton field:



The Role Cotton Played in the 1800s Economy | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross

The Southern economy, at least, was tied to agricultural production, true; but rapidly the northern economy was much manufacturing based thanks to the Industrial Revolution.

Not to mention most people didn't even own slaves.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

The Southern economy, at least, was tied to agricultural production, true; but rapidly the northern economy was much manufacturing based thanks to the Industrial Revolution.

Not to mention most people didn't even own slaves.

It was the top 1% that mainly owned slaves in the South.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

It was the top 1% that mainly owned slaves in the South.

Yep. Though one of the bigger ironies of the whole period was that there were African American slave owners as well.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Yep. Though one of the bigger ironies of the whole period was that there were African American slave owners as well.

There were? I've only ever heard of African slave owners, but they weren't in America to begin with.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

There were? I've only ever heard of African slave owners, but they weren't in America to begin with.

There were very few, and mostly in the earliest years of America and colonial days, but they were around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Louisiana_Native_Guard_(CSA)

These guys were just plain weird

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

There were very few, and mostly in the earliest years of America and colonial days, but they were around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Louisiana_Native_Guard_(CSA)

These guys were just plain weird

The more you know the better, I guess.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

The more you know the better, I guess.

True that.

 

[phattonez]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

I'm not a fan of internment by any means.

But I'm not going to be so bold as to just say no. At best I'll say I don't know. It's morally wrong if there's no threat, but with the threat that really changes the circumstances. I'd still lean toward no, because many innocent people were interred, but probably some real threats were interred as well.