Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday

[Airyaman]

Any acceptable compromise will have to include DACA protections. Republican Senators might not go for that, though.

I don't think there have been too many Republican senators against DACA legislation, that has been historically the "Freedom Caucus" nitwits in the House. Now that they've been neutered, the only one really standing in the way of DACA legislation is Stephen Miller.

 

[danarhea]

Full article title: Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says





Source: (CNN) Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says

Alright, with CNN citing a "senior administration official here - I'm a bit suspect. My suspicion is this will be little of substance in the way of "an offer". It will likely be an "offer" to negotiate in a manner politically advantageous for Trump.

But hey, who knows? If it gets dialogue going, it's a good thing right?

So, what do you think?

If Trump wants to declare a national emergency, Congress has 6 months to overturn it. My suspicion is that they will do it in 6 minutes. Also, Trump declaring a national emergency won't pass muster in SCOTUS, since the Constitution clearly states that it is Congress that controls the purse.

 

[Chomsky]

fify.

Don't forget, Trump is the negotiator.

Well, so far he managed to negotiate himself down from 25B earlier in the year, to 5B now. So you might be right.

He should have taken the 25B when it was there ...

 

[bongsaway]

My thought is that Trump has been exceptionally reasonable during all of this, and now apparently he continues his good behavior, which should be rewarded if we want to see more of it.

There must be fairness in the games otherwise instead of having games this society breaks down in to violence and chaos.

With as mentally ill as we are now and with as much firepower is out there that will really suck.

Trump caused the shutdown, he claimed it loudly and clearly. What do you mean he's been exceptionally reasonable? It is not reasonable to shut down the federal government because of ann coulter and rush limbaugh calling him a failed president without the wall he promised MEXICO would pay for.

 

[Chomsky]

I think CNN's paid "official", Joe the Janitor, is giving CNN what they want so they can sell their viewpoint. CNN would be better off if they just wait and see what Trump says.

In any case, Sanders already said what Trump is going to do:

Well I admit it's become apparent to me that CNN appears to be the only source. Other orgs are sourcing it back to CNN. So we shall see ...

 

[Chomsky]

Trump seems unbending. The democrats seem unbending. Trump will get the border security improvement with or without them. That is one of the biggest projects tens of millions of patriotic Americans hired him to get done in the first place.

Yeah, that's why I have no real faith in the CNN article. Well, also because Trump is far too mercurial.

 

[Chomsky]

No amnesty deal will be made because not only will people not show up to vote for Trumps re-election they wont show up and vote for their Republican senator. Amnesty deal on DACA can only be had after a wall is already built or with a big immigration reform bill. Both are not likely to happen for at least a while. If Trump caves on the wall tomorrow, himself and the Republicans lose elections massively in 2020. So the only thing they can do is get a compromised bill that Democrats vote for that also has money for his wall or a national emergency announcement.

That makes a lot of sense in terms of mainstream thought, though I'm not so sure the majority of Trump supporters are really so steadfast. They've had to lay back on this wall for two years. I'm beginning to wonder if this "not budging" effect is at least partly driven by far-Right media personalities.

For example, Trump recently decided to raise H1B quotas and give them a path to citizenship now, claiming the country needs more imported tech workers and citizens. There was hardly a peep from the base.

“H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship,” he wrote. “We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.”

Source: (Fox Business) Trump floats citizenship for H1B visa holders

 

[Chomsky]

The Republicans came down from $25B to $5.7B. **** the Democrats; they aren't serious AT ALL about border security.

Is DACA included in that 5.7B?

 

[Chomsky]

If Trump wants to declare a national emergency, Congress has 6 months to overturn it. My suspicion is that they will do it in 6 minutes. Also, Trump declaring a national emergency won't pass muster in SCOTUS, since the Constitution clearly states that it is Congress that controls the purse.

I disagree. I doubt the GOP would go against Trump. It will take the courts.

And I believe whatever Trump announces today, if anything, will be the result of his recent McConnell meeting in the White House.

 

[armycowboy]

A majority of Americans are against building a wall. A majority of Americans blame Trump for the shutdown. Meanwhile, the CEC continues to pressure Trump to stand firm in his bid to get a wall out of this shutdown. There's really no path to victory for Trump here.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yeah man, I'm torn on this.

It's my natural nature to be a compromiser. I think independently and draw my own conclusions in life, but when faced with conflict with others I try to be fair and accommodating. However here, I'm torn because I do not agree with compromising with hostage or ransom taking - EVER.

I'm trying to get around my hostage taking mantra, by looking at "political realities" and "the greater good". But, it ain't easy!

"It ain't easy" because a lot of us already understand Trump's true nature! It's that simple.
Even a child can understand the problem with Donald Trump, and we're all adults, but just for fun, let's look at it from the point of view of a child for a second.

Remember the movie "Hook"? Remember the scene where "Pan" finally agrees to fight Hook, and he beats him soundly, even to the point of sweeping the wig off his head, and Hook is defeated on the ground, and he entreats Pan to just give him back his dignity?

Pan gives him back his wig, and his kids say, "Daddy, we just want to go home, he's just a mean old man without a Mommy."
Pan says, "I want you to take your ship, and get out of here, and I never want to see you in Neverland again," and he turns and starts to walk away with his kids.
And what does Hook do???

In the immortal words of Howard Cosell: "Let's go to the video tape!"



That basically IS Trump's nature, he's like Captain Hook, he's a pirate in the service of a bigger pirate, Captain Vladimir Putin.
And if we ever turn our back on Trump, I guarantee you he'll backstab us first chance he gets, because that is what he does.
He's written entire chapters about it in his books, he takes joy in stabbing people in the back.

It's time to deliver Trump to the crocodile, that's all there is to it.

 

[Deuce]

My thought is that Trump has been exceptionally reasonable during all of this, and now apparently he continues his good behavior, which should be rewarded if we want to see more of it.

There must be fairness in the games otherwise instead of having games this society breaks down in to violence and chaos.

With as mentally ill as we are now and with as much firepower is out there that will really suck.

Shutting down the government until you are given what you want is not good behavior.

 

[Taylor]

Any acceptable compromise will have to include DACA protections. Republican Senators might not go for that, though.

Isn't that how you know it's a compromise? If both sides come out kind of pissed off?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

My hunch is that when everything is said and done, the Democrats will give Trump a border security package that includes minimal wall funding.

It all goes back to the hostage taking. Most people already had more than their fill of that nonsense before, when Obama was in the White House. And now we're supposed to get duped by that crap again, and fall for it the same way?
And then what? What happens in a few weeks when Trump wants something else and can't get it the normal way via the democratic process in the legislature?
He takes ANOTHER hostage, because it worked out so well for him a few weeks ago, that's what he does.

No. It doesn't even matter anymore WHAT he wanted. It is WHAT HE DID when he couldn't get his way, that IS what this is all about at this point.

Again, repeating myself...it all boils down to a dog that won't stop crapping in the house. The dog must be housebroken.
We are not supposed to be forced to live knee deep in dog crap, and we're not supposed to be forced to grovel with a hostage taker.

This is not about five billion dollars for a wall anymore, it hasn't been since he shut down the government. That is when it CEASED to be about his wall.

 

[poweRob]

Chomsky, if there's one thing that's certain, it's that Republicans are going to think twice before playing one of these games again.

No matter what they get, they've turned 58% (at least) of the public against them for a long time. This shutdown is different from ones of past. Because of the changing of majority controls in Congress, people were paying more attention to DC than normal, and were actually able to see how unreasonable Republicans were being in real time. When Trump said "It will be MY shutdown, I will take the mantle!" in front of the press, the public was listening, and a large majority were pissed off.

Nothing they get will undue that damage.

Even if the Democrats gave away the store (which I doubt at this point) they'll be the heroes, because the public WILL see them as the ones to end the shutdown.

My hunch is that when everything is said and done, the Democrats will give Trump a border security package that includes minimal wall funding.

Dems are about to pass a $1 billion package now for border security. It's not for a wall though.

As part of a package of six spending bills, House Democrats next week will vote on $1 billion for additional border security measures, according to a Democratic source.

The $1 billion would not include money for the border wall, as Democrats are trying to make the case there are other border security measures that are more effective.

The money includes port security measures as well funding for immigration judges who could help with cases of migrants crossing the US-Mexico border seeking asylum, the source told CNN.

This package including the $1 billion will be the 10th measure House Democrats vote on in an effort to reopen the government since the new session of Congress began. So far, the House has approved seven of those bills, with a re-vote scheduled for the eighth bill on Tuesday that is expected to pass.

link...​

When the GOP turns their back on that, it will prove they don't give a **** about border security.

 

[Mr Person]

I'm skeptical. Most likely a stunt, like everything else he does. It'll be some vague offer of something they didn't really want anyway designed so that he can command his minions to keep blaming the Democrats for his shutdown while claiming credit for nothing. He has to know that only a shrinking percentage of his base still blames Democrats for his shutdown. He wants to give people willing to lie something to work with. So as I said, most likely this will be a completely non-serious offer, a tacky show.

I suppose that even though it would risk encouraging the GOP to keep doing this (this is, what, the 4th or 5th time they've done this to try to get their way), I'd settle for exchanging DACA for the entire stupid wall. The Dems offered that before, back when Trump wasn't shutting down government to demand that the GOP give him 5 billion for a wall.

 

[Taylor]

Dems are about to pass a $1 billion package now for border security. It's not for a wall though.

As part of a package of six spending bills, House Democrats next week will vote on $1 billion for additional border security measures, according to a Democratic source.

The $1 billion would not include money for the border wall, as Democrats are trying to make the case there are other border security measures that are more effective.

The money includes port security measures as well funding for immigration judges who could help with cases of migrants crossing the US-Mexico border seeking asylum, the source told CNN.

This package including the $1 billion will be the 10th measure House Democrats vote on in an effort to reopen the government since the new session of Congress began. So far, the House has approved seven of those bills, with a re-vote scheduled for the eighth bill on Tuesday that is expected to pass.

link...​

When the GOP turns their back on that, it will prove they don't give a **** about border security.

It's good that Trump has forced Democrats to think about border security. Maybe they can work some these ideas into the compromise.

 

[Chomsky]

"It ain't easy" because a lot of us already understand Trump's true nature! It's that simple.
Even a child can understand the problem with Donald Trump, and we're all adults, but just for fun, let's look at it from the point of view of a child for a second.

Remember the movie "Hook"? Remember the scene where "Pan" finally agrees to fight Hook, and he beats him soundly, even to the point of sweeping the wig off his head, and Hook is defeated on the ground, and he entreats Pan to just give him back his dignity?

Pan gives him back his wig, and his kids say, "Daddy, we just want to go home, he's just a mean old man without a Mommy."
Pan says, "I want you to take your ship, and get out of here, and I never want to see you in Neverland again," and he turns and starts to walk away with his kids.
And what does Hook do???

In the immortal words of Howard Cosell: "Let's go to the video tape!"



That basically IS Trump's nature, he's like Captain Hook, he's a pirate in the service of a bigger pirate, Captain Vladimir Putin.
And if we ever turn our back on Trump, I guarantee you he'll backstab us first chance he gets, because that is what he does.
He's written entire chapters about it in his books, he takes joy in stabbing people in the back.

It's time to deliver Trump to the crocodile, that's all there is to it.

Point taken. But unfortunately, the America body politic is involved, and they like to see compromise.

 

[Chomsky]

Trump has already attempted the "compromise" route. Chuck and Nancy just say no...and leave town.

That only leaves one possible course of action: National emergency.

Of course, the Dems will howl when he does that. All Trump has to do is point to the hundreds of thousands of government workers who's lives will be getting back to normal. That'll make him the good guy.

FWIW, CNN online is now reporting a DACA for Wall deal is expected to be offered by Trump.

(CNN) Trump expected to propose extending DACA, TPS protections in exchange for wall funding

 

[Cardinal]

Full article title: Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says





Source: (CNN) Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says

Alright, with CNN citing a "senior administration official here - I'm a bit suspect. My suspicion is this will be little of substance in the way of "an offer". It will likely be an "offer" to negotiate in a manner politically advantageous for Trump.

But hey, who knows? If it gets dialogue going, it's a good thing right?

So, what do you think?

It's possible, but only if he offered Democrats our largest priority, like HR1. Biggest priority for biggest priority.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It's good that Trump has forced Democrats to think about border security. Maybe they can work some these ideas into the compromise.

I don't think I am alone when, as a Democrat, I say I am okay with doing more about border security, even if includes building some more walls. That is not what Trump has "forced" me to do however. You just don't get it, do you?

The only thing Trump has forced me to think about (and again, I doubt I am alone) is that I refuse to allow myself to be forced to grovel with a hostage taker who shuts down the government when he can't get his way via the ordinary democratic process in the legislature.

And that's because I know he will do the same thing again and again and again and again and again.
Nope, I won't allow that to happen.
Twumpy is going to have to allow the government to reopen before he gets any compromise whatsoever.
No more hostage dramas...ever again. That stops now.

 

[Chomsky]

dems are about to pass a $1 billion package now for border security. It's not for a wall though.

as part of a package of six spending bills, house democrats next week will vote on $1 billion for additional border security measures, according to a democratic source.

The $1 billion would not include money for the border wall, as democrats are trying to make the case there are other border security measures that are more effective.

The money includes port security measures as well funding for immigration judges who could help with cases of migrants crossing the us-mexico border seeking asylum, the source told cnn.

This package including the $1 billion will be the 10th measure house democrats vote on in an effort to reopen the government since the new session of congress began. So far, the house has approved seven of those bills, with a re-vote scheduled for the eighth bill on tuesday that is expected to pass.

link...​

when the gop turns their back on that, it will prove they don't give a **** about border security.

FYI -

(CNN) Trump expected to propose extending DACA, TPS protections in exchange for wall funding

 

[Chomsky]

It's possible, but only if he offered Democrats our largest priority, like HR1. Biggest priority for biggest priority.

Exactly. Trump came up with his thing. There's nothing wrong with Dems asking for their thing. The shutdown is global. Other topics are fair game; it need not be immigration related.

 

[SheWolf]

Full article title: Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says





Source: (CNN) Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says

Alright, with CNN citing a "senior administration official here - I'm a bit suspect. My suspicion is this will be little of substance in the way of "an offer". It will likely be an "offer" to negotiate in a manner politically advantageous for Trump.

But hey, who knows? If it gets dialogue going, it's a good thing right?

So, what do you think?

He will probably tell them to fund the wall or he will declare a national emeregency. That's how Trump negotiates

 

[Birdzeye]

I'm skeptical. Most likely a stunt, like everything else he does. It'll be some vague offer of something they didn't really want anyway designed so that he can command his minions to keep blaming the Democrats for his shutdown while claiming credit for nothing. He has to know that only a shrinking percentage of his base still blames Democrats for his shutdown. He wants to give people willing to lie something to work with. So as I said, most likely this will be a completely non-serious offer, a tacky show.

I suppose that even though it would risk encouraging the GOP to keep doing this (this is, what, the 4th or 5th time they've done this to try to get their way), I'd settle for exchanging DACA for the entire stupid wall. The Dems offered that before, back when Trump wasn't shutting down government to demand that the GOP give him 5 billion for a wall.

I’m not getting my hopes up. The Dems did indeed, early last year, offered trump $20B for the wall in exchange for DACA provisions. Trump rejected it. It may be necessary for Pelosi compromise - give trump something for his stupid wall in exchange for concessions on DACA. - in order to end the shutdown. I’m just not optimistic that trump will begin to negotiate, never mind negotiate in good faith.