Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday

[Chomsky]

I don't think I am alone when, as a Democrat, I say I am okay with doing more about border security, even if includes building some more walls. That is not what Trump has "forced" me to do however. You just don't get it, do you?

The only thing Trump has forced me to think about (and again, I doubt I am alone) is that I refuse to allow myself to be forced to grovel with a hostage taker who shuts down the government when he can't get his way via the ordinary democratic process in the legislature.

And that's because I know he will do the same thing again and again and again and again and again.
Nope, I won't allow that to happen.
Twumpy is going to have to allow the government to reopen before he gets any compromise whatsoever.
No more hostage dramas...ever again. That stops now.

Exactly.

He cannot be allowed a win, here. He must leave the field politically wounded and hobbling, having accepted the least of worse fates. He must be left with no incentive to do this again. Otherwise, let him suffer at his own hands until he's ready to capitulate.

 

[MovingPictures]

It all goes back to the hostage taking. Most people already had more than their fill of that nonsense before, when Obama was in the White House. And now we're supposed to get duped by that crap again, and fall for it the same way?
And then what? What happens in a few weeks when Trump wants something else and can't get it the normal way via the democratic process in the legislature?
He takes ANOTHER hostage, because it worked out so well for him a few weeks ago, that's what he does.

No. It doesn't even matter anymore WHAT he wanted. It is WHAT HE DID when he couldn't get his way, that IS what this is all about at this point.

Again, repeating myself...it all boils down to a dog that won't stop crapping in the house. The dog must be housebroken.
We are not supposed to be forced to live knee deep in dog crap, and we're not supposed to be forced to grovel with a hostage taker.

This is not about five billion dollars for a wall anymore, it hasn't been since he shut down the government. That is when it CEASED to be about his wall.

Sorry, my original reply was lost when the server was down.

I agree that hostage games shouldn't be tolerated, they are destroying America in the long run.

The difference between this shutdown and ones of past is that people have paid close attention to the facts, mostly because of the changing of majority control in the House. The public got to see first hand how reasonable the Democrats were, and how unreasonable the GOP have been, and you can bet that will have electoral consequences in 2020.

This time the GOP paid a serious political price for what they did. The icing on the cake will be them crawling on their knees pleading for scraps from Pelosi (we've already seen some of that), hoping maybe she'll give them a **** sandwich they can sell to their base.

Just imagine the commercials in 2020 of Republicans trying to primary Trump and McConnell, showing them defeated and at Pelosi's feet. :mrgreen:

 

[Chomsky]

He will probably tell them to fund the wall or he will declare a national emeregency. That's how Trump negotiates

I dunno'. I think he's going toss-out a bone, or the appearance of a bone, from what I'm seeing in the media.

 

[Chomsky]

I’m not getting my hopes up. The Dems did indeed, early last year, offered trump $20B for the wall in exchange for DACA provisions. Trump rejected it. It may be necessary for Pelosi compromise - give trump something for his stupid wall in exchange for concessions on DACA. - in order to end the shutdown. I’m just not optimistic that trump will begin to negotiate, never mind negotiate in good faith.

I can never imagine Trump negotiating in good faith.

 

[ClaraD]

Full article title: Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says





Source: (CNN) Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says

Alright, with CNN citing a "senior administration official here - I'm a bit suspect. My suspicion is this will be little of substance in the way of "an offer". It will likely be an "offer" to negotiate in a manner politically advantageous for Trump.

But hey, who knows? If it gets dialogue going, it's a good thing right?

So, what do you think?

sorry, but after this stunt...if he wants his border wall...I would make him offer full amnesty.

 

[ClaraD]

You only need 13 of them for a deal.

Graham, Gardner, Murkowski, Collins, McSally, Tillis, and Ernst have all openly supported DACA protections, so that leaves only half a dozen clowns to flip.

You will never get McConnell to allow it on the floor

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Exactly.

He cannot be allowed a win, here. He must leave the field politically wounded and hobbling, having accepted the least of worse fates. He must be left with no incentive to do this again. Otherwise, let him suffer at his own hands until he's ready to capitulate.

Because if we think this shutdown is damaging now, wait till the next 349,875,009,785,408,733 shutdowns happen, so to speak. He will shut down the government each and every time he doesn't get his way. He will shut it down if Melania doesn't sex him the way he likes. He will shut down the government every time Ann "Hitler with Tits" Coulter impugns his manhood.
He will shut down the government because Rush Limbaugh implied that he's a *****.
He will shut down the government because Nancy Pelosi disrespected him by not groveling appropriately.
He will shut down the government because Mitch McConnell told him it's the right thing to do.

There is no end to the list of reasons Donald Trump will shut down the government once he is convinced that it is a workable tactic.
And each and every time he does it, he will claim it's his idea before flipping 180 degrees and blaming the Democrats.

Why? Because we gave him PERMISSION.

Well, permission denied.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The icing on the cake will be them crawling on their knees pleading for scraps from Pelosi (we've already seen some of that), hoping maybe she'll give them a **** sandwich they can sell to their base.

Trump: "Why can't I get a deal with the Democrats?"

BECAUSE YOU HAD A HISSY FIT AND SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT FOR A GODDAMN MONTH.

 

[Cardinal]

The pre-buttal, per dem aide: "Dems were not consulted on this and have rejected similar overtures previously." Calls Trump's anticipated DACA/TPS deal "a non-serious product of negotiations among WH staff."

https://twitter.com/anniekarni/status/1086690156445356032

 

[Chomsky]

The pre-buttal, per dem aide: "Dems were not consulted on this and have rejected similar overtures previously." Calls Trump's anticipated DACA/TPS deal "a non-serious product of negotiations among WH staff."

https://twitter.com/anniekarni/status/1086690156445356032

Damn!. They ARE playing hardball.

Anyone that thinks Pelosi wasn't the right person for the job, is probably eating those words. She's herding cats in a way John Boehner could only dream of.

 

[upsideguy]

Full article title: Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says





Source: (CNN) Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday speech, official says

Alright, with CNN citing a "senior administration official here - I'm a bit suspect. My suspicion is this will be little of substance in the way of "an offer". It will likely be an "offer" to negotiate in a manner politically advantageous for Trump.

But hey, who knows? If it gets dialogue going, it's a good thing right?

So, what do you think?

The normal way to negotiate is get the key players in a room. If you need a mediator, so be it, but you generally do this directly. Trump once again shows no negotiation savvy. Instead, Trump has spent most of his time talking to Republicans and listening to Fox News. I really don't see how this goes anywhere.

Frankly, this appears to be a panic move on his part. My guess is that he is deluded into thinking he can sway the public to give him better leverage. That did not work last week, why would he think it would work this time? Unfortunately Trump has almost no ability to sway anything other than his base and maybe 3% of the electorate. Its not enough for anyone to care.

I think Trump is going stir crazy right now, having taken himself hostage in the cold of a Washington winter. He can't do his campaign rallies, so this is the next best thing. His second national address in a month?

The problem for Trump is that he is dying on the wrong hill. He is waging a fight that few care about and most are more than happy to see him get his head handed to him. You pick your battles in life; he picked wrong.

He got it right before Christmas when he agreed to the CR. If he really wanted this wall (and he really doesn't), he would have traded for it. He could have had it before but he screwed up the opportunity. I think this whole shut down thing is to keep his mind and the mind of the American people off the fact that the law is closing in on the President.

That all said, I hope I am wrong. I really want this whole notion that you shutting down the government is what you do when your legislative agenda is a failure to stop.

 

[upsideguy]

I dunno'. I think he's going toss-out a bone, or the appearance of a bone, from what I'm seeing in the media.

I agree he will try something he thinks is a bone with the idea that he looks like the guy that is negotiating. If it were a real negotiation, however, he would not do it on national television, but behind close doors.

He is doing this because he knows he is losing the PR war. Unfortunately for him, Trump has almost zero ability to sway national opinion. In fact, going on TV is likely overplaying his hand, which many people will see it for what it is. For every person that sways his way he is likely to turn away two that see this whole thing as pathetic. IMHO.

 

[Chomsky]

The normal way to negotiate is get the key players in a room. If you need a mediator, so be it, but you generally do this directly. Trump once again shows no negotiation savvy. Instead, Trump has spent most of his time talking to Republicans and listening to Fox News. I really don't see how this goes anywhere.

Frankly, this appears to be a panic move on his part. My guess is that he is deluded into thinking he can sway the public to give him better leverage. That did not work last week, why would he think it would work this time. Unfortunately Trump has almost no ability to sway anything other than his base and maybe 3% of the electorate. Its not enough for anyone to care.

Trump is dying on the wrong hill. He got it right before Christmas when he agreed to the CR. If he really wanted this wall (and he really doesn't), he would have traded for it. He could have had it before but he screwed up the opportunity.

Well said, insightful, and accurate, IMO.

Trump is a NYC Reality TV Star & Impresario. He's used to manipulating the media, and swaying public opinion. And he has had an aiding and abetting Republican Party controlling Congress, performing his every whim as President.

Now an opposition party is in control of 1/2 of Congress, and his PR & bullying techniques no longer work. We saw this in the recent election.

A new day has dawned for Mr. Trump. I'm sure he's very perplexed, as to why his previous techniques don't work. And he's got to be furiously pissed a women has such power over him. This was shown by his pulling Pelosi's Congressional trip.

 

[Mr Person]

I’m not getting my hopes up. The Dems did indeed, early last year, offered trump $20B for the wall in exchange for DACA provisions. Trump rejected it. It may be necessary for Pelosi compromise - give trump something for his stupid wall in exchange for concessions on DACA. - in order to end the shutdown. I’m just not optimistic that trump will begin to negotiate, never mind negotiate in good faith.

According to WaPo, he is thinking of giving "temporary protections" to previous DACA people. No thanks. Not good enough.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...5fed1b7a081_story.html?utm_term=.bc92e0919f1b

 

[Chomsky]

I agree he will try something he thinks is a bone with the idea that he looks like the guy that is negotiating. If it were a real negotiation, however, he would not do it on national television, but behind close doors.

He is doing this because he knows he is losing the PR war. Unfortunately for him, Trump has almost zero ability to sway national opinion. In fact, going on TV is likely overplaying his hand, which many people will see it for what it is. For every person that sways his way he is likely to turn away two that see this whole thing as pathetic. IMHO.

I'll bet you ten to one, he's found a new caravan somewhere! :lamo

 

[Chomsky]

According to WaPo, he is thinking of giving "temporary protections" to previous DACA people. No thanks. Not good enough.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...5fed1b7a081_story.html?utm_term=.bc92e0919f1b

Yeah, permanent wall for temporary DACA. What a deal!

Sounds like the GOP permanent corp tax cuts, for temporary citizen tax cuts, doesn't it?

 

[SLC]

If I were Trump I'd declare a National Emergency and use the 14 billion set aside for California fires and Puerto Rico and force Congress to replace that money. Trump won't win California people that live in Puerto Rico can't vote. Let Congress have to re-budget those funds.

 

[upsideguy]

I'll bet you ten to one, he's found a new caravan somewhere! :lamo

Yes, I had to deal with this with poster yesterday that tried to tell me Pelosi was going to see the light when this new caravan ran the border....

I think I replied asking him how the last one worked out and whether he believed in the Great Pumpkin. To which he told me I was snarky, but mark his words, Nancy was going to learn her lesson about the border. So, that caravan thingy seems to excite his base, but its tired and old to the independents.

Trump's fundamental problem is that while he can excite his base, he turns off everyone else. He isn't a good speaker, has no command of the issues and facts, and his happy to make stuff up as he goes along. Most of the country sees this so the man has very little credibility. There is no point in watching him.

Trump would be far more effective and have far more credibility if he rarely spoke and rarely tweeted. He is the personification of "..better to sit quietly in the corner and appear a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt..." That is a lesson I wish he would learn.

 

[upsideguy]

If I were Trump I'd declare a National Emergency and use the 14 billion set aside for California fires and Puerto Rico and force Congress to replace that money. Trump won't win California people that live in Puerto Rico can't vote. Let Congress have to re-budget those funds.

I agree. I would love for him to do that.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Trump caused the shutdown, he claimed it loudly and clearly. What do you mean he's been exceptionally reasonable? It is not reasonable to shut down the federal government because of ann coulter and rush limbaugh calling him a failed president without the wall he promised MEXICO would pay for.

Government shut downs have always been proof of failure of leadership in Washington, a failure that is on full display everyday and has been for many many year, long before WE THE PEOPLE sent Trump.

 

[Eclipze]

If I were Trump I'd declare a National Emergency and use the 14 billion set aside for California fires and Puerto Rico and force Congress to replace that money. Trump won't win California people that live in Puerto Rico can't vote. Let Congress have to re-budget those funds.

Yes. This is the best solution I’ve heard to date. Please do this Trump.

 

[Deuce]

Government shut downs have always been proof of failure of leadership in Washington, a failure that is on full display everyday and has been for many many year, long before WE THE PEOPLE sent Trump.

Trump has failed to lead, correct.

 

[Deuce]

If I were Trump I'd declare a National Emergency and use the 14 billion set aside for California fires and Puerto Rico and force Congress to replace that money. Trump won't win California people that live in Puerto Rico can't vote. Let Congress have to re-budget those funds.

We know you would. Trumpism is about harming people. That's why you'd do it. That's why you'd declare a fraudulent national emergency.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Trump has failed to lead, correct.

Trump has not been allowed to lead....after NOV 9 and "NOT MY PRESIDENT!" he became a victim.

Who knows if he could have been a good President, we will never know now.

 

[Chomsky]

Yes, I had to deal with this with poster yesterday that tried to tell me Pelosi was going to see the light when this new caravan ran the border....

I think I replied asking him how the last one worked out and whether he believed in the Great Pumpkin. To which he told me I was snarky, but mark his words, Nancy was going to learn her lesson about the border. So, that caravan thingy seems to excite his base, but its tired and old to the independents.

Trump's fundamental problem is that while he can excite his base, he turns off everyone else. He isn't a good speaker, has no command of the issues and facts, and his happy to make stuff up as he goes along. Most of the country sees this so the man has very little credibility. There is no point in watching him.

Trump would be far more effective and have far more credibility if he rarely spoke and rarely tweeted. He is the personification of "..better to sit quietly in the corner and appear a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt..." That is a lesson I wish he would learn.

Oh man, this is too funny.

I just saw footage on Fox of Trump getting on his helicopter. He stopped to talk to the press. What do you think he was pushing? The "new" caravan coming for our border. I kid you not! Can't make it up!