Trump plans to make Democrats an offer to end shutdown, not declare national emergency, in Saturday

[Chomsky]

I suspect the IQ of a three year old is greater than Trump Nation; I doubt I have seen anything close to this deliberate ignorance. So steeped in the cult, even when presented with facts from the US government, Trump Nation believes what Trump says against what the evidence shows.

Here we are amidst the longest government shut down in US history (no other nations have this feature) designed and delivered by a man who said he would be "proud" to shut down the government.

Now that he has delivered on that threat, Trump Nation blames Hillary Clinton.

I will never again believe anything a Republican says. You will know I was and still am in opposition to much of what Obama did, especially "you can keep your plan" and the drinking water he faked in Flint.

However the Republicans gleefully hounded Hillary spending millions of taxpayer dollars in hearings and investigations - three years of an onslaught...but now, where Trump has his dick in the wrong hole they scream "unfair" from the rooftops; the only argument they have to maintain power is the false fears of a replacement.

Dr. Martin Luther King was fond of the concept of "character over color" and in this two year stint Republicans have none, no character and proven they are unfit for anything requiring honesty.

Seriously, their groveling support is the most sickening thing I have seen since Kennedy was shot

Well if you remember, I was a big Obama fan - still am! And in our discussions you were pretty down on him, with one of your biggest complaints being that Obama wasn't uniting the country in the manner you desired. However now with some perspective over time, it seems there are worse fates in this regard.

And your point in regards to the GOP hypocrisy is seriously legit. I've been calling them out for many years. It's good to see many others catching-up with me in this. Since early last year, I also claimed they (GOP) are getting pretty infested with Russian money and coercion. We'll see how long it takes for others to catch-up in that regard, too.

The Dems are fighting a much larger and important war here, than many realize.

 

[cabse5]

Well if you remember, I was a big Obama fan - still am! And in our discussions you were pretty down on him, with one of your biggest complaints being that Obama wasn't uniting the country in the manner you desired. However now with some perspective over time, it seems there are worse fates in this regard.

And your point in regards to the GOP hypocrisy is seriously legit. I've been calling them out for many years. It's good to see many others catching-up with me in this. Since early last year, I also claimed they (GOP) are getting pretty infested with Russian money and coercion. We'll see how long it takes for others to catch-up in that regard, too.

The Dems are fighting a much larger and important war here, than many realize.

Prove the GOP is infested with Russian money..and Russian coercion? I assume you mean Russian coercion since every politician seems to be coercive.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Well if you remember, I was a big Obama fan - still am! And in our discussions you were pretty down on him, with one of your biggest complaints being that Obama wasn't uniting the country in the manner you desired. However now with some perspective over time, it seems there are worse fates in this regard.

And your point in regards to the GOP hypocrisy is seriously legit. I've been calling them out for many years. It's good to see many others catching-up with me in this. Since early last year, I also claimed they (GOP) are getting pretty infested with Russian money and coercion. We'll see how long it takes for others to catch-up in that regard, too.

The Dems are fighting a much larger and important war here, than many realize.

Yes I did rip Obama a new one for his early stances, his "enemies" comment and stand by that criticism. He was the tail end of a growing problem that was dividing America, he created a them and us arrangement and rarely met with individual congressmen.

What it shows is that America doesn't care about being united, the hate runs so deep that a cream puff thinker like Trump can take over and bully everyone in his path.

My opinion of Obama has risen a great deal, as you pointed out the contrast and how Trump is pressing that agenda. But, also how he has risen since leaving office. Looking back the last year and a half of his administration was well run, mostly clean, but its record buried beneath the "Never Ending Investigation of Hillary Clinton which last four years and appears to be being brought up again.

My opinion has also risen about Nancy Pelosi. I held her in contempt for the fiascos and attitudes of the early days and the stupidity of rushing Obamacare into existence in way the country felt was being rammed down their throats. Now, she's showing us her "Iron Lady" side, the perfect foil for the immature brat.

And I will not allow you bragging rights on calling out Republicans on their two or more faces, I first posted that before Donald had won the nomination and predicted they would re-open the Hillary probe.

Lastly, you are absolutely correct, and this will get a lot of reaction, the Democrats along with all of Europe and Canada know EXACTLY what is at stake here, a thing called democracy and human rights. Making Angry & Greedy Americans is already attacking the two terms limit at his rallies "I will cancel the 2020 elections....if you want me to. I would be great of Americans decided the extend the greatest presidency in history!"

We're all on alert.

 

[Chomsky]

Prove the GOP is infested with Russian money..and Russian coercion? I assume you mean Russian coercion since every politician seems to be coercive.

Well you've got the $6M run through the NRA to Trump, and the Mueller investigation looking into it and other Butina-NRA matters. Then of course you've got the GOP embrace of Maria Butina herself, and her reaches and influence deep into the leadership of the Republican Party. Not to mention Dana Rohrabacher's ties to Torchin & Assange (all three currently under investigation).

So yeah, there's a lot of Russian influence within the Republican Party. Enough so, that they've adopted a more pro-Russia party platform.

 

[cabse5]

Well you've got the $6M run through the NRA to Trump, and the Mueller investigation looking into it and other Butina-NRA matters. Then of course you've got the GOP embrace of Maria Butina herself, and her reaches and influence deep into the leadership of the Republican Party. Not to mention Dana Rohrabacher's ties to Torchin & Assange (all three currently under investigation).

So yeah, there's a lot of Russian influence within the Republican Party. Enough so, that they've adopted a more pro-Russia party platform.

Currently under investigation doesn't mean guilty (unless you want it to).

 

[Chomsky]

Currently under investigation doesn't mean guilty (unless you want it to).

Or unless given the totality of the big picture, it leads me to believe so. Which is looking quite possible, here.

 

[cabse5]

Or unless given the totality of the big picture, it leads me to believe so. Which is looking quite possible, here.

(You hope).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Yes I did rip Obama a new one for his early stances, his "enemies" comment and stand by that criticism. He was the tail end of a growing problem that was dividing America, he created a them and us arrangement and rarely met with individual congressmen.

What it shows is that America doesn't care about being united, the hate runs so deep that a cream puff thinker like Trump can take over and bully everyone in his path.

My opinion of Obama has risen a great deal, as you pointed out the contrast and how Trump is pressing that agenda. But, also how he has risen since leaving office. Looking back the last year and a half of his administration was well run, mostly clean, but its record buried beneath the "Never Ending Investigation of Hillary Clinton which last four years and appears to be being brought up again.

My opinion has also risen about Nancy Pelosi. I held her in contempt for the fiascos and attitudes of the early days and the stupidity of rushing Obamacare into existence in way the country felt was being rammed down their throats. Now, she's showing us her "Iron Lady" side, the perfect foil for the immature brat.

And I will not allow you bragging rights on calling out Republicans on their two or more faces, I first posted that before Donald had won the nomination and predicted they would re-open the Hillary probe.

Lastly, you are absolutely correct, and this will get a lot of reaction, the Democrats along with all of Europe and Canada know EXACTLY what is at stake here, a thing called democracy and human rights. Making Angry & Greedy Americans is already attacking the two terms limit at his rallies "I will cancel the 2020 elections....if you want me to. I would be great of Americans decided the extend the greatest presidency in history!"

We're all on alert.

Do you have a link to Mr. Trump actually saying "I will cancel the 2020 elections....if you want me to. I would be great of Americans decided the extend the greatest presidency in history!"?

Admittedly about 60% of the surveyed Republicans say that they would be OK with him doing that, but I can't find a link to him actually saying that.

PS - One of the hallmarks of "banana republics" and "totalitarian regimes" is their propensity for "delaying" elections until they are 100% certain that "The Right People" will get elected.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Currently under investigation doesn't mean guilty (unless you want it to).

Unless, of course, your name is "Hillary Clinton" when "just being accused, even though the accusations are not being investigated because they have already been investigated and found false, is more than enough to mean that you are **G*U*I*L*T*Y**!!!!".

 

[cabse5]

Unless, of course, your name is "Hillary Clinton" when "just being accused, even though the accusations are not being investigated because they have already been investigated and found false, is more than enough to mean that you are **G*U*I*L*T*Y**!!!!".

Two wrongs make a (W)right, eh?

 

[Chomsky]

Yes I did rip Obama a new one for his early stances, his "enemies" comment and stand by that criticism. He was the tail end of a growing problem that was dividing America, he created a them and us arrangement and rarely met with individual congressmen.

What it shows is that America doesn't care about being united, the hate runs so deep that a cream puff thinker like Trump can take over and bully everyone in his path.

My opinion of Obama has risen a great deal, as you pointed out the contrast and how Trump is pressing that agenda. But, also how he has risen since leaving office. Looking back the last year and a half of his administration was well run, mostly clean, but its record buried beneath the "Never Ending Investigation of Hillary Clinton which last four years and appears to be being brought up again.

My opinion has also risen about Nancy Pelosi. I held her in contempt for the fiascos and attitudes of the early days and the stupidity of rushing Obamacare into existence in way the country felt was being rammed down their throats. Now, she's showing us her "Iron Lady" side, the perfect foil for the immature brat.

And I will not allow you bragging rights on calling out Republicans on their two or more faces, I first posted that before Donald had won the nomination and predicted they would re-open the Hillary probe.

Lastly, you are absolutely correct, and this will get a lot of reaction, the Democrats along with all of Europe and Canada know EXACTLY what is at stake here, a thing called democracy and human rights. Making Angry & Greedy Americans is already attacking the two terms limit at his rallies "I will cancel the 2020 elections....if you want me to. I would be great of Americans decided the extend the greatest presidency in history!"

We're all on alert.

All great points here, my friend. I wish I had more to add and critique, but you did an excellent job here so I'll let your points simply stand.

But I will add that your last paragraph is the most chilling, and has the gravest and most overarching implications. We are seeing that law - and simple adherence to law - is not enough for a smooth and functioning society. We have over time developed social and governmental conventions and protocol, outside of and in addition to the menial adherence to the law. It's why I say "excuse me", if I accidentally bump you in the street, even though there's no legal requirement to do so. It's why Presidents tried to show respect for all their citizens, even though there's no law requiring them to do so.

Well, now those unwritten societal and governmental conventions have been broken and are being eschewed. And we can see, losing the unwritten glue that binds us, and the unwritten lubricants that facilitated our interactions, was far more important than we realized. Now we are being told a President can collude with an enemy power, because it's not illegal, as well as being told it is fine for a teenager to stare-down and intimidate and old man, again because it's not illegal.

We're hurting here. We cant regulate and assign statutes to cover every possible social and governmental situation, so we depend upon mutual respect and one's desire to attempt to do what society broadly believes is the right thing. Trump is tearing down and destroying these societal & governmental conventions. He is leading the charge from the top, and there's always going to be a slice of society that is susceptible to go against societal norms.

It's no coincidence that the Alt-Right and hate crimes are on the rise. And it's no coincidence our government has not just ceased to function, but has indeed shut-down! It's for these reasons that I am working politically to impede Trump from attaining a second term. And also for these reasons I rejoined the Democratic Party (after many years!), and support Nancy Pelosi stopping Trump. The first step was to stop the damage. That was (mostly) accomplished in 2018. Next, we turn it around. That's what 2020 is about, and I'm optimistic.

 

[Fearandloathing]

All great points here, my friend. I wish I had more to add and critique, but you did an excellent job here so I'll let your points simply stand.

But I will add that your last paragraph is the most chilling, and has the gravest and most overarching implications. We are seeing that law - and simple adherence to law - is not enough for a smooth and functioning society. We have over time developed social and governmental conventions and protocol, outside of and in addition to the menial adherence to the law. It's why I say "excuse me", if I accidentally bump you in the street, even though there's no legal requirement to do so. It's why Presidents tried to show respect for all their citizens, even though there's no law requiring them to do so.

Well, now those unwritten societal and governmental conventions have been broken and are being eschewed. And we can see, losing the unwritten glue that binds us, and the unwritten lubricants that facilitated our interactions, was far more important than we realized. Now we are being told a President can collude with an enemy power, because it's not illegal, as well as being told it is fine for a teenager to stare-down and intimidate and old man, again because it's not illegal.

We're hurting here. We cant regulate and assign statutes to cover every possible social and governmental situation, so we depend upon mutual respect and one's desire to attempt to do what society broadly believes is the right thing. Trump is tearing down and destroying these societal & governmental conventions. He is leading the charge from the top, and there's always going to be a slice of society that is susceptible to go against societal norms.

It's no coincidence that the Alt-Right and hate crimes are on the rise. And it's no coincidence our government has not just ceased to function, but has indeed shut-down! It's for these reasons that I am working politically to impede Trump from attaining a second term. And also for these reasons I rejoined the Democratic Party (after many years!), and support Nancy Pelosi stopping Trump. The first step was to stop the damage. That was (mostly) accomplished in 2018. Next, we turn it around. That's what 2020 is about, and I'm optimistic.

It is the first step in any take over. Bring hate to the table, feed it, and stand back and watch. And when the riots start you call out the army to "restore order"

It's what Putin did when he first won the presidency decades ago. It's what Stalin did, Hitler and Mussolini also.

All you have to do is exploit people's natural fears, magnify them, stage some phony evidence and you have the gold medal in dictatorship.

 

[Chomsky]

It is the first step in any take over. Bring hate to the table, feed it, and stand back and watch. And when the riots start you call out the army to "restore order"

It's what Putin did when he first won the presidency decades ago. It's what Stalin did, Hitler and Mussolini also.

All you have to do is exploit people's natural fears, magnify them, stage some phony evidence and you have the gold medal in dictatorship.

Yep, classic authoritarian techniques.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It is the first step in any take over. Bring hate to the table, feed it, and stand back and watch. And when the riots start you call out the army to "restore order"

It's what Putin did when he first won the presidency decades ago. It's what Stalin did, Hitler and Mussolini also.

All you have to do is exploit people's natural fears, magnify them, stage some phony evidence and you have the gold medal in dictatorship.

Step 1 - Create a problem.
Step 2 - Make the problem worse.
Step 3 - Blame the problem on a powerless group.
Step 4 - Declare that the problem is an emergency.
Step 5 - Give yourself "emergency powers".
Step 6 - Rule by decree.
Step 7 - Create a new problem.
Step 8 - (reset at Step 2).