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Trump-Clinton spar over economic plans

Your ideologies grip on politics is over. The base will be dead in 30 years, and the shift in demographics alone will push the country more to the left. The Donald as the face of the GOP is just the beginning of the end.

See ya! :2wave:

Then so is this country as my ideology is based upon what our Founders created and that is a limited central govt. with power at the states, not the current 19.4 trillion dollar debt and massive central govt. today that has destroyed incentive and individual risk taking. I find your face to be the one that is scary not Trump's as you do not seem to understand human behavior and the damage that liberalism has done to this country. There is never going to be enough spending for people like you and that makes this country worse than Greece. You simply cannot or will not see the forest for the trees. I wonder how many people you have employed in your career? It does appear that the number is zero as you do not understand human behavior at all but can only read charts
 
Then so is this country

Your expired opinion is of no consequence. It's ****ing over! You will likely be angry, pissed off..., whatever. This is the fault of your failed ideology and the hyper-partisan imbeciles that pushed fear, aggression, and oppression as their message for your party.
 
Your expired opinion is of no consequence. It's ****ing over! You will likely be angry, pissed off..., whatever. This is the fault of your failed ideology and the hyper-partisan imbeciles that pushed fear, aggression, and oppression as their message for your party.

As you have said over and over again YOU DON"T KNOW ME. I live in TX now the best move of my life, spent 35 years in the business world, employed hundreds and hundreds over the years, fired hundreds as well because that liberal attitude of showing up late, if it feels good do it, stealing and drugs aren't an issue, and they were here for the customer to serve them. That is what the leftwing has created today and you are too blind to see it.

Read your charts and watch this country implode from within. Am I partisan, you bet, partisan to the principles upon which this country was built, not the liberal principles of today. Too bad people like you never admit when wrong and when proven wrong it is too late. I quite frankly don't give a damn what you think because what you think isn't rooted in reality.
 
As you have said over and over again YOU DON"T KNOW ME. I live in TX now the best move of my life, spent 35 years in the business world, employed hundreds and hundreds over the years, fired hundreds as well because that liberal attitude of showing up late, if it feels good do it, stealing and drugs aren't an issue, and they were here for the customer to serve them. That is what the leftwing has created today and you are too blind to see it.

Read your charts and watch this country implode from within. Am I partisan, you bet, partisan to the principles upon which this country was built, not the liberal principles of today. Too bad people like you never admit when wrong and when proven wrong it is too late. I quite frankly don't give a damn what you think because what you think isn't rooted in reality.

:lol:

Great Response!
 
I guess you call over the past 8 yrs under Obama we end up with a GDP just over 1 percent and the worst recovery sense the 1940's a success. Add that to more on food stamps, wages stagnate, the rich getting richer expanding the disparity between the rich and the middle class. Christ I could outline a laundry list of economic failures of Obama's policies. But you champion failure at all cost.

The point was whether the stimulus failed. It did not. A stimulus is not designed to re-arrange the economic infrastructure; its to keep the economy from sliding and by turning it around toward growth. 85% of our top economists said it did to that...

As to all your other points, they are separate discussions. Most of those discussions would involve economic infrastructure (including works of previous governments) and the characteristics of the American economy (including demographics) more than they would be indictments of Obama economic policy.
 
The point was whether the stimulus failed. It did not. A stimulus is not designed to re-arrange the economic infrastructure; its to keep the economy from sliding and by turning it around toward growth. 85% of our top economists said it did to that...

As to all your other points, they are separate discussions. Most of those discussions would involve economic infrastructure (including works of previous governments) and the characteristics of the American economy (including demographics) more than they would be indictments of Obama economic policy.

Please tell me how a stimulus that wasn't fully implemented in 2009 brought us out of a recession four months after it was implemented? Your revisionist history is stunning. It was TARP that brought us out of that recession, not the stimulus. I can give you a number of top economists that disagree with your assessment and those who credit the stimulus. By the way can you offer me a verifiable site that captures saved jobs??
 
Look, if you would like to debate the issue get off the emotional opinions and post some actual data and facts to support your claim. I have done it over and over again which of course confuses you as it doesn't support your narrative. What is it in the Clinton economic proposals that are accurate and factual and what is it about Trump's actually do you disagree with, NAFTA, the illegals, the tax structure and code, sanctuary cities, entitlements? All were addressed but you ignored them

Wrong again, Trump has made lots of claims and promises, he has yet to provide any actual details on how he would accomplish any of them. Sorry but you have posted nothing more than your opinion, unfortunately you believe your opinion to be fact, a common mistake made by those that believe they actually know what they are talking about. Still curious how a Conservative backs a Liberal for the Whitehouse, me thinks you do not know that fact either.
 
Wrong again, Trump has made lots of claims and promises, he has yet to provide any actual details on how he would accomplish any of them. Sorry but you have posted nothing more than your opinion, unfortunately you believe your opinion to be fact, a common mistake made by those that believe they actually know what they are talking about. Still curious how a Conservative backs a Liberal for the Whitehouse, me thinks you do not know that fact either.

Did you ever learn any logic and common sense. The choice is Hillary or Trump and Trump is more conservative than the habitual liar and incompetent Hillary. Like it or not Trump has created jobs. Like it or not Trump has leadership and management experience. Like it or not, Trump is an outsider with no political experience and for that reason he is my choice over Hillary. You obviously have paid no attention to what Trump has said or proposed. Suggest you listen for a change
 
The Trump and the Clinton economic plans are to use the presidency to increase their personal wealth significantly. Donald Trump hopes to be as rich as he claims to be and Sen. Clinton hopes to raise above being flat broke.
 
Please tell me how a stimulus that wasn't fully implemented in 2009 brought us out of a recession four months after it was implemented? Your revisionist history is stunning. It was TARP that brought us out of that recession, not the stimulus. I can give you a number of top economists that disagree with your assessment and those who credit the stimulus. By the way can you offer me a verifiable site that captures saved jobs??

Again, I posted a ton of links from experts on the subject. You should read them as you have zero expertise in this area. Maybe I am old school, but I find when you listen to experts on subjects you know little about, you actually get to learn something. When you do not listen to experts, you perpetuate your ignorance and look foolish to others...

Congressional Budget Office defends stimulus - The Washington Post
Did the stimulus work? A review of the nine best studies on the subject - The Washington Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/opinion/sunday/what-the-stimulus-accomplished.html?_r=0
Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com
Once again: Yes, the stimulus worked. - LA Times
http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/end-of-great-recession.pdf
Poll Results | IGM Forum
http://economics.mit.edu/files/7102
http://projects.propublica.org/tables/stimulus-spending-progress

Yes, if 80% of all economists agree the stimulus worked, there will be some (20% --- a 4 to 1 minority) that will tell you it did not. Normally, the logical conclusion when people tell you something at the rate of 4 to 1 is that is true. The "1" might have a point, but the point is probably not that the "4" were wrong, its that he sees measures success differently.

Net-Net, you might have a basis of an argument that the stimulus did not work, but its a minority opinion likely based on an atypical definition of success.
 
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Again, I posted a ton of links from experts on the subject. You should read them as you have zero expertise in this area. Maybe I am old school, but I find when you listen to experts on subjects you know little about, you actually get to learn something. When you do not listen to experts, you perpetuate your ignorance and look foolish to others...

Congressional Budget Office defends stimulus - The Washington Post
Did the stimulus work? A review of the nine best studies on the subject - The Washington Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/opinion/sunday/what-the-stimulus-accomplished.html?_r=0
Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com
Once again: Yes, the stimulus worked. - LA Times
http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/end-of-great-recession.pdf
Poll Results | IGM Forum
http://economics.mit.edu/files/7102
http://projects.propublica.org/tables/stimulus-spending-progress

Yes, if 80% of all economists agree the stimulus worked, there will be some (20% --- a 4 to 1 minority) that will tell you it did not. Normally, the logical conclusion when people tell you something at the rate of 4 to 1 is that is true. The "1" might have a point, but the point is probably not that the "4" were wrong, its that he sees measures success differently.

Net-Net, you might have a basis of an argument that the stimulus did not work, but its a minority opinion likely based on an atypical definition of success.

So, let's see we spend 842 billion dollars and employment goes from 142 million to 139 million in two years and that is a success? I don't give a damn what the CBO says because they take their orders from the Congress. There is no verifiable source that captures saved jobs, that is a pie in the sky marketing term. You believe what you want to believe whereas I look at actual data and there isn't even the GDP Growth to support those articles so to me they are a waste of time

by the way love how you quote economists and ignore the public opinion. Obama lost the House in 2010, didn't regain it in 2012, and lost the Congress in 2014. Does that look like a success to you? The people have spoken and all you can do is post articles from economists who are out of touch with reality
 
The point was whether the stimulus failed. It did not. A stimulus is not designed to re-arrange the economic infrastructure; its to keep the economy from sliding and by turning it around toward growth. 85% of our top economists said it did to that...

As to all your other points, they are separate discussions. Most of those discussions would involve economic infrastructure (including works of previous governments) and the characteristics of the American economy (including demographics) more than they would be indictments of Obama economic policy.

I can only assume that the economists you want to give credit to for calling the stimulus a success pay absolutely no attention to the actual results

The Five Biggest Failures From President Obama's Stimulus Law | US News Opinion
 
I can only assume that the economists you want to give credit to for calling the stimulus a success pay absolutely no attention to the actual results

The Five Biggest Failures From President Obama's Stimulus Law | US News Opinion

Obviously you did not read one item of what I set forth... one piece set forth 9 definitive studies on the subject...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...n-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html

One particular study, done by the University of Chicago, one of the foremost schools of economics in the world listed, with bios, the 100 or so Ivy league economists and what each had to say about the stimulus. 4 of 5 said it worked.

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_cw5O9LNJL1oz4Xi

Your counter article, an editorial by Rence Pribus, was interesting.... but was almost non-responsive. Surely you recognize partisan rhetoric (isn't Rence paid to say the Democrats can't do anything right?) does not superceed expert opinion. Try again. Had you actually looked at the material I provided, you would have found more powerful arguments against the stimulus working than what you came up with. You should have read them.

So apparently you are not particularly interested in any information that is contrary to your world view. You are more than happy to live in the dark room of ignorance. That is fine. But it is not fine to insult those that do not want to live in that darkness with you.

You can not like the stimulus, but you can not say definitively that it did not work. The experts overwhelmingly say "yes" and you are but a lay person that agrees with Rence Pribus. Your problem is the you want to define what "works" means. You lack the expertise to do so.

You are no match, sir.
 
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Obviously you did not read one item of what I set forth... one piece set forth 9 definitive studies on the subject...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...n-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html

One particular study, done by the University of Chicago, one of the foremost schools of economics in the world listed, with bios, the 100 or so Ivy league economists and what each had to say about the stimulus. 4 of 5 said it worked.

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_cw5O9LNJL1oz4Xi

Your counter article, an editorial by Rence Pribus, was interesting.... but was almost non-responsive. Surely you recognize partisan rhetoric (isn't Rence paid to say the Democrats can't do anything right?) does not superceed expert opinion. Try again. Had you actually looked at the material I provided, you would have found more powerful arguments against the stimulus working than what you came up with. You should have read them.

So apparently you are not particularly interested in any information that is contrary to your world view. You are more than happy to live in the dark room of ignorance. That is fine. But it is not fine to insult those that do not want to live in that darkness with you.

You can not like the stimulus, but you can not say definitively that it did not work. The experts overwhelmingly say "yes" and you are but a lay person that agrees with Rence Pribus. Your problem is the you want to define what "works" means. You lack the expertise to do so.

You are no match, sir.

Regardless of the author, it is the content that matters and the disconnect that you aren't willing to address which is Obama losing the House and then Congress so the American people don't feel the success of the stimulus and the results back my statement not yours.
 
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So, let's see we spend 842 billion dollars and employment goes from 142 million to 139 million in two years and that is a success? I don't give a damn what the CBO says because they take their orders from the Congress. There is no verifiable source that captures saved jobs, that is a pie in the sky marketing term. You believe what you want to believe whereas I look at actual data and there isn't even the GDP Growth to support those articles so to me they are a waste of time

by the way love how you quote economists and ignore the public opinion. Obama lost the House in 2010, didn't regain it in 2012, and lost the Congress in 2014. Does that look like a success to you? The people have spoken and all you can do is post articles from economists who are out of touch with reality

1) whether a stimulus worked or did not work is NOT a matter of public opinion no more than the closing price of the Dow Jones is a matter of public opinion. Its a matter of econometrics, which 90% of the population has no idea what that is, much less what is involved in econometric modeling. The public is about as informed in economics as it is micro-biology. Somehow, every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks they understand economics, but that does not make it so.

2) much goes into an election. You can not simply look at an election outcome and say it is because of A or B. Moreover, off year elections have a different character than national elections. The idea that the elections of 2010, 12 and 14 were simply votes on whether the stimulus worked is an amazing naive statement. Perhaps we should draw the conclusion in November after Trump's trouncing that the election is a national repudiation (or refudiation, for those that speak Sarah) conservatism? I won't....
 
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1) whether a stimulus worked or did not work is NOT a matter of public opinion no more than the closing price of the Dow Jones is a matter of public opinion. Its a matter of econometrics, which 90% of the population has no idea what that is, much less what is involved in econometric modeling. The public is about as informed in economics as it is micro-biology. Somehow, every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks they understand economics, but that does not make it so.

2) much goes into an election. You can not simply look at an election outcome and say it is because of A or B. Moreover, off year elections have a different character than national elections. The idea that the elections of 2010, 12 and 14 were simply votes on whether the stimulus worked is an amazing naive statement. Perhaps we should draw the conclusion in November after Trump's trouncing that the election is a national repudiation (or refudiation, for those that speak Sarah) conservatism? I won't....

really? So give me the actual verifiable numbers that show the stimulus worked and what was its purpose? You have given economists posts but never actual BLS, BEA, Treasury numbers to support those claims.

The American people vote their pocketbooks and always will just like you do. If it doesn't benefit you, you don't support it, that is human nature. The Obama stimulus did not generate the shovel ready jobs promised, or the economic growth in the private sector needed from that stimulus and all you have to do is look where the money went. Rebates aren't tax cuts, bailing out Unions isn't the role of the Federal Govt., cash for clunkers rewarded people who had the money to buy a new car not the unemployed.
 
really? So give me the actual verifiable numbers that show the stimulus worked and what was its purpose? You have given economists posts but never actual BLS, BEA, Treasury numbers to support those claims.

The American people vote their pocketbooks and always will just like you do. If it doesn't benefit you, you don't support it, that is human nature. The Obama stimulus did not generate the shovel ready jobs promised, or the economic growth in the private sector needed from that stimulus and all you have to do is look where the money went. Rebates aren't tax cuts, bailing out Unions isn't the role of the Federal Govt., cash for clunkers rewarded people who had the money to buy a new car not the unemployed.
Yer right(wing), we shoulda cut spending spending even more...like the EU region....why then....we would be experiencing growth and UE like them!

Derp!
 
Yer right(wing), we shoulda cut spending spending even more...like the EU region....why then....we would be experiencing growth and UE like them!

Derp!

Love how American liberals who have never experienced the European economy by actually living there constantly compare ours to theirs. There never is enough federal spending for the liberal social appetite totally ignoring state and local responsibilities
 
Yer right(wing), we shoulda cut spending spending even more...like the EU region....why then....we would be experiencing growth and UE like them!

Derp!

For those with a short memory let me refresh it for you

For those with short memories and those too young to know......

When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn't even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress.

This fiasco cost the American taxpayers about $13 million in cost for studies, promotion, and other efforts.

Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general. Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood - both were too radical and forced to withdraw their names from consideration.

Next she chose Janet Reno - husband Bill described her selection as "my worst mistake." Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Kore and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children.

Husband Bill allowed Hillary to make recommendations for the head of the Civil Rights Commission. Lani Guanier was her selection. When a little probing led to the discovery of Ms. Guanier's radical views, her name had to be withdrawn from consideration.

Apparently a slow learner, husband Bill allowed Hillary to make some more recommendations. She chose former law partners Web Hubbel for the Justice Department, Vince Foster for the White House staff, and William Kennedy for the Treasury Department.
Her selections went well: Hubbel went to prison, Foster (presumably) committed suicide, and Kennedy was forced to resign.

Many younger votes will have no knowledge of "Travelgate." Hillary wanted to award unfettered travel contracts to Clinton friend Harry Thompson - and the White House Travel Office refused to comply. She managed to have them reported to the FBI and fired. This ruined their reputations, cost them their jobs, and caused a thirty-six month investigation. Only one employee, Billy Dale was charged with a crime, and that of the enormous crime of mixing personal and White House funds. A jury acquitted him of any crime in less than two hours.

Still not convinced of her ineptness, Hillary was allowed to recommend a close Clinton friend, Craig Livingstone, for the position of Director of White House security. When Livingstone was investigated for the improper access of about 900 FBI files of Clinton enemies (Filegate) and the widespread use of drugs by White House staff, suddenly Hillary and the president denied even knowing Livingstone, and of course, denied knowledge of drug use in the White House. Following this debacle, the FBI closed its White House Liaison Office after more than thirty years of service to seven presidents.

Next, when women started coming forward with allegations of sexual harassment and rape by Bill Clinton, Hillary was put in charge of the "bimbo eruption" and scandal defense. Some of her more notable decisions in the debacle were:

She urged her husband not to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit. After the Starr investigation they settled with Ms. Jones.

She refused to release the Whitewater documents, which led to the appointment of Ken Starr as Special Prosecutor. After $80 million dollars of taxpayer money was spent, Starr's investigation led to Monica Lewinsky, which led to Bill lying about and later admitting his affairs.

Hillary's devious game plan resulted in Bill losing his license to practice law for 'lying under oath' to a grand jury and then his subsequent impeachment by the House of Representatives.

Hillary avoided indictment for perjury and obstruction of justice during the Starr investigation by repeating, "I do not recall," "I have no recollection," and "I don't know" a total of 56 times while under oath. After leaving the White House, Hillary was forced to return an estimated $200,000 in White House furniture, china, and artwork that she had stolen.

Ready for another four or eight years of this type of low-life mess?

Now we are exposed to the destruction of possibly incriminating top secret emails while Hillary was Secretary of State and the "pay to play" schemes of the Clinton Foundation (10% to charity, 75% misc expenses) -- we have no idea what shoe will fall next.
But to her loyal fans -- "what difference does it make?"
 
Love how American liberals who have never experienced the European economy by actually living there constantly compare ours to theirs. There never is enough federal spending for the liberal social appetite totally ignoring state and local responsibilities
I need to live there.....to know they have generally better lives?

This is coming from the guy stuck in his basement....DEMANDING STATISTICS!!!!!
 
For those with a short memory let me refresh it for you...
i have no idea why you think your plagiarizing of a crazy Drumpfian chain email from other insane teabaggers.....pulls any weight with me.
 
I need to live there.....to know they have generally better lives?

This is coming from the guy stuck in his basement....DEMANDING STATISTICS!!!!!

How exactly do you know that the statistics in the European countries regarding their economy are captured the same way they are here and measure the same areas. Also how do you know that the European countries have the same choices for beer alcohol cigarettes and drugs that we have in this country.

You really are nothing more than a left-wing radical who doesn't like your country very much and will do everything you can to change it. Fortunately living where you live you are in the minority
 
i have no idea why you think your plagiarizing of a crazy Drumpfian chain email from other insane teabaggers.....pulls any weight with me.

Nothing pulls any weight with a leftwing ideologue who is jealous of what others have and make
 
How exactly do you know that the statistics in the European countries regarding their economy are captured the same way they are here and measure the same areas. Also how do you know that the European countries have the same choices for beer alcohol cigarettes and drugs that we have in this country.
Yeah, it is all a scam, teh govts are lying about mortality rates....and self reporting on happiness is forced....socialism is brainwashing!

I'm sure you can dig up a teabagger email on that subject too!

You really are nothing more than a left-wing radical who doesn't like your country very much and will do everything you can to change it. Fortunately living where you live you are in the minority
It is so hard, (barely) living in Texass, wacthin' them women git rights....black peple gittin rights....teh gays MARRIN' each other......teh creep of socialism all 'round yer!
 
Nothing pulls any weight with a leftwing ideologue who is jealous of what others have and make

Why do you assume that criticism of tax policy on the rich is motivated by jealousy of what others have? That is a very self congratulatory dishonest pat on the back of your own argument and the people you are defending while at the same time dismissing the valid reasons why people hold the economic views on taxation that they do for the best interests of both the nation and all the American people.
 
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