Transsexualism is superficial?

[maquiscat]

And heterosexuals want the real thing.

Not true. Many heterosexuals are fine with a trans woman. Some are only that way with a post op trans women, and others are fine with them period, regardless of genitals. Sure many heterosexuals do want "the real thing" as you put it, but don't go broad brushing like that.

 

[roguenuke]

Nope, homosexual means someone attracted to the same sex as yourself. It is homosexuality not homogenderality. Identifying as a female doesn't actually make you a female. I'm sure you love your sister and I hope she's very happy, but she's not a lesbian or gay. She's a heterosexual transwoman.

It is based on the sex/gender that a person sees themselves as, which means that a person who sees themselves as female and is attracted to females is a lesbian. It really is not that hard to figure out.

 

[maquiscat]

You shouldn’t mutilate your body just because you want to express an emotion or something that the other sex seems more allowed to do so. You should fight the norm and be yourself without having a sex change.

This is another one of your misconceptions. It's not about being able to express emotions or do something that is stereotypically of the other sex. Plenty of people already are bucking those stereotypes and "gender roles". It's about being who and what you are, regardless of what others want to tell you to be.

 

[maquiscat]

Ok but he needs to say more substantive things instead just his robotic nonsense or I just can’t help but call it out.

And that is probably why you are suspended. Just put him on ignore when you get back. He ain't worth it.

 

[maquiscat]

You don't know it isn't something they are naturally born with, that this isn't something natural about them. You are trying to make that claim that this is taught, something else that develops, just as those against homosexuals have done for centuries.

There are many reasons why it isn't hard to believe that transgenderism is naturally a part of many people, that it is merely something we haven't discovered in their genome. And it is likely from several different causes rather than one or two. I know of at least two different cases where the transgender person was born with a physical reason that made them the gender they saw themselves as, despite being raised as, seen as the opposite gender.

I so badly want to see a study done specifically looking for chimeraism. I am willing to bet that we would see a significant number among the transgender population. Doubtful a majority, especially we we go with the assumption that there are several vectors, but significant.

 

[Aristaeus]

It is based on the sex/gender that a person sees themselves as, which means that a person who sees themselves as female and is attracted to females is a lesbian. It really is not that hard to figure out.

Nope, it's based on biological reality. Your sex is not a subjective view of yourself.

Female is the sex of an organism that produces non-mobile ova (egg cells). It is not self-identification.

 

[maquiscat]

She's not unless your changing the definition of homosexual to mean someone attracted to the opposite sex. You don't change your biological sex when you change your gender identity.

Welcome to evolving language where gay no longer is used to mean festive, and faggot is not referring to a bundle of sticks. Yes it is changing as much as the word "gender" is changing. While very much divided, many are using the sexual orientation labels in reference to the gender not the sex of the ones involved. It remains to be seen where it will settle out for now.

 

[maquiscat]

Homosexual means someone attracted to the same sex/gender as yourself. If you identify as the same sex/gender as those you are attracted to, then that makes you homosexual. Just like if you identify as the opposite sex/gender as those you are attracted to, that makes you heterosexual. This actually is not a hard concept.

Transgender FAQ

What does transgender mean?Transgender is a term used to describe people whose gender identity differs from the sex they were assigned at birth. Gender identity is a person's internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or boy or girl.) For some people, their gender identity does not fit...

www.glaad.org

This is one of the reasons why I keep hoping that we start shifting to orientation labels that only refer to the person attracting, and not including the one attracted. In most cases, the orientation itself never changes. A transgender person is still attracted to what they were before.

 

[roguenuke]

Nope, it's based on biological reality. Your sex is not a subjective view of yourself.

Female is the sex of an organism that produces non-mobile ova (egg cells). It is not self-identification.

You are not attracted to a person's chromosomes. You are not attracted to a person's eggs or sperm. It is biological features that people are attracted to.

Not all women produce egg cells. Some don't have the actual parts to do that. But they are still going to have their sexual orientation category be based on their perceived gender/sex, not whether they can produce eggs.

 

[maquiscat]

Who's 'we'?

The ones countering the ignorance and bigotry you have posted.

 

[roguenuke]

This is one of the reasons why I keep hoping that we start shifting to orientation labels that only refer to the person attracting, and not including the one attracted. In most cases, the orientation itself never changes. A transgender person is still attracted to what they were before.

Exactly.

My sister, when she emailed us about her being transgender, got basically the same reply from me and our mother (which she told me about later, when we were both home from our tours), "but don't you like women?". We just weren't that "in the know" at that time to understand that sexuality and being transgender were separate things. The response back was an emphatic "I LIKE WOMEN!!!" (I swear that is how she responded to me, my email must have came after my mom's and maybe some others.) She refers to herself as a lesbian now, although she was emphatic at first to insist she wasn't gay, although I think it was because there was this view that sexuality was based on your birth sex, not who you saw yourself as, what gender you see yourself as. But that response sort of clicked something for me that said, okay, I actually get it. It would have been a much bigger shock to me had she came back that she was attracted to men because it didn't fit. The being transgender, being a woman fit more than being attracted to men did for her. I do have two younger siblings (a sister and a brother) who are bisexual, but that actually fits them too. Those two I can see being attracted to either sex, anyone.

 

[Unbeknownst]

Nope, homosexual means someone attracted to the same sex as yourself. It is homosexuality not homogenderality. Identifying as a female doesn't actually make you a female. I'm sure you love your sister and I hope she's very happy, but she's not a lesbian or gay. She's a heterosexual transwoman.

Okay so, I personally hate having this conversation, but let's do it anyway.
The reason why homosexual is homosexual is because the word is older than the widespread understanding of the distinction between sex (biologicals) and gender (identification).

Source

Source
So, the word homosexual referring to sex isn't because of any basis in science, but just because people didn't use the word gender back then the way we do now.

Let's go over the meaning of sex and gender.

"Sex" is biological sex. It's based on the reproductive functions and/or chromosomes.
"Gender" is a mix of identification and presentation.

Certain things are divided into categories of masculine and feminine. Masculine things are things we happen to associate with the male sex. Feminine things are things we associate with the female sex. Masculine and feminine things are things of gender, they're related to presentation and not reproductive functions or chromosomes.

Now, when you're sexually attracted to some random person, you haven't looked into their pants, nor do you know their chromosomes. That's because we base our attraction on a part of gender: presentation. If someone convincingly presents femininely, your brain associates a feminine presentation with the female sex. It's as if they were a part of the female sex. You would be attracted to their presentation: i.e., their gender.

 

[Aristaeus]

You are not attracted to a person's chromosomes. You are not attracted to a person's eggs or sperm. It is biological features that people are attracted to.

Not all women produce egg cells. Some don't have the actual parts to do that. But they are still going to have their sexual orientation category be based on their perceived gender/sex, not whether they can produce eggs.

Do you have any idea how homophobic it is to say a male who is attracted to a female can call themselves a lesbian. Are we just trampling over gay and lesbian culture and heritage now?

 

[roguenuke]

Do you have any idea how homophobic it is to say a male who is attracted to a female can call themselves a lesbian. Are we just trampling over gay and lesbian culture and heritage now?

That isn't homophobic at all. It is simply a different view of situations and what it means to be homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual, that is based on the person's view of their own gender rather than how others are trying to see them. Not just any "male" can legitimately call themselves a lesbian. That doesn't make sense. But someone who sees themselves as a woman, as female in at least who they are, whether cisgender or transgender can legitimately call themselves a lesbian.

 

[maquiscat]

Exactly.

My sister, when she emailed us about her being transgender, got basically the same reply from me and our mother (which she told me about later, when we were both home from our tours), "but don't you like women?". We just weren't that "in the know" at that time to understand that sexuality and being transgender were separate things. The response back was an emphatic "I LIKE WOMEN!!!" (I swear that is how she responded to me, my email must have came after my mom's and maybe some others.) She refers to herself as a lesbian now, although she was emphatic at first to insist she wasn't gay, although I think it was because there was this view that sexuality was based on your birth sex, not who you saw yourself as, what gender you see yourself as. But that response sort of clicked something for me that said, okay, I actually get it. It would have been a much bigger shock to me had she came back that she was attracted to men because it didn't fit. The being transgender, being a woman fit more than being attracted to men did for her. I do have two younger siblings (a sister and a brother) who are bisexual, but that actually fits them too. Those two I can see being attracted to either sex, anyone.

That's because that is exactly what it was based upon. The one thing that so many people forget is that language evolves and word shift, gradually or dramatically, in their meaning and use. Most of the time they don't even notice. How many pre computer era people recognize bug to mean error, and never realize that such a meaning didn't exist before computers?

 

[maquiscat]

Okay so, I personally hate having this conversation, but let's do it anyway.
The reason why homosexual is homosexual is because the word is older than the widespread understanding of the distinction between sex (biologicals) and gender (identification).
View attachment 67327605
Source
View attachment 67327606
Source
So, the word homosexual referring to sex isn't because of any basis in science, but just because people didn't use the word gender back then the way we do now.

Let's go over the meaning of sex and gender.

"Sex" is biological sex. It's based on the reproductive functions and/or chromosomes.
"Gender" is a mix of identification and presentation.

Certain things are divided into categories of masculine and feminine. Masculine things are things we happen to associate with the male sex. Feminine things are things we associate with the female sex. Masculine and feminine things are things of gender, they're related to presentation and not reproductive functions or chromosomes.

Now, when you're sexually attracted to some random person, you haven't looked into their pants, nor do you know their chromosomes. That's because we base our attraction on a part of gender: presentation. If someone convincingly presents femininely, your brain associates a feminine presentation with the female sex. It's as if they were a part of the female sex. You would be attracted to their presentation: i.e., their gender.

Exactly what I was talking about. And even now the term "queer" is being shifted from the sexual orientation application to one of gender identity. Language evolves.

 

[Unbeknownst]

I so badly want to see a study done specifically looking for chimeraism. I am willing to bet that we would see a significant number among the transgender population. Doubtful a majority, especially we we go with the assumption that there are several vectors, but significant.

Looked for it, found something sort-of similar.
Many transgender and gay people are dual sex chimeras | by Brian Hanley | Medium
(PDF) Dual-gender macrochimeric tissue discordance is predicted to be a significant cause of human homosexuality and transgenderism (researchgate.net)

 

[bomberfox]

I’m sure they go through a lot. And notice it hasn’t really taken off like other civil rights stuff. In fact black culture really does not like even homosexuality. But see their plight was real. They weren’t even allowed to use water fountains. They were slaves and they wanted freedom. That’s all real shit worth fighting for.

So do trans people who continue to get beaten to near death on the regular... Trans people have always been part of the LGBT alliance since the beginning and all through stonewall.

 

[bomberfox]

It is fascinating that a disproportionate amount of transphobia seems targeted at those who transition MtF.

Part sexism against women part misandry.

 

[bomberfox]

Let’s be honest this issue isn’t going to ever be more successful than it is now.

Morality is dictated by the society you live in. This has become more popular so the dissidence against it is smaller.

We are actually more successful than the UK on trans rights

 

[bomberfox]

So it sounds like whether or not they get the surgery they will be condemned to have a miserable childhood. If I was a parent in that situation I would pick up and move to somewhere more forgiving if it meant giving my child a better life.

Definitely the moment i would be able to i would do that. Fortunately the US is in a better position than many other countries.

 

[bomberfox]

Again, you said:

We're talking about gender reassignment surgery. How does some other person's gender reassignment surgery put anyone at risk, for you to then caution anyone about risk?

I dont see where noonereal said that.

 

[bomberfox]

Imagine having an unchangeable condition where 'splitting your dick like a banana peel' was the only way you could feel comfortable in your own skin and sleep well at night.

That's the kind of challenge trans people face.

Now imagine a large group of unicorn worshipers pay a lot of money to make sure you can't do the one thing that would help you most adjust and live a healthy life, simply because their glittery text of unicorn poo on 3-ply holy toilet paper wiped off the unicorn's arse 2000 years ago says 'that's not right'.

This is a good stance.

 

[bomberfox]

I’m a dissident liberal. You just conform with what’s liberal.

Many of us have had to deal with out own bigotry and ignorance. I would suggest listening to trans youtubers like contrapoints and critfacts.

 

[bomberfox]

It’s ok if a kid is different or doesn’t conform to expected gender roles but that doesn’t mean you raise them to believe they need a ****ing sex change someday. There’s talk of giving kids a sex change or starting the process when they’re young and it’s just wrong to me. Just because celebrities endorse it on talk shows.

You cant raise a kid to be trans if they are not for long. Dr. Money’s failure demonstrates that.