This is why I think we should just leave Mexicans alone.

[LizardofOz]

Well if you didn't know how to cut tobacco to start with, no wonder you couldn't keep up with the migrants. It ain't rocket science, pal. :lol:

You keep talking **** but you still can't explain anything about it to me. The farmers there that have been doing it all their life couldn't do what they did. The fastest farmer, a little older than me could do about 75 an hour and that's with taking 20 min breaks in between.

 

[VanceMack]

I worked incredibly hard and yes I did watch them. The trouble was they were right handed and I was left, and it's hard to explain but you have to be able to cut 6 plants with very little movement at a time and the farmers even were trying to figure out how to make it easier on me. When it came to actually loading the tobacco though, I guess because of my height I was able to do it much easier and faster than the other guys. Because of their height, the actual spearing of the tobacco was much easier for them. If any of you here could do 100 sticks an hour after not really working for 2 months because of lack of work, and because of lack of doing such hard labor go right ahead and be my guest. It's weird, but I liked it a lot but at the same time, it was killer on me. I really wish I could do it but at 12 cents a stick and how fast I was going I would only be getting abotu $7 an hour.

Thats better than minimum wage and who is to say you wouldnt improve over time. not every job is for everybody...Im assuming you got a better job that pays more and you are better at.

 

[majora$$hole]

OMG SLAVE LABOR?! You mean them making about $800 a week is slave labor?! OH NOOOOOO!!!

i thought you said they had to pay $750 to get the work visa so isn't that more like $50 a week?

 

[Compatibilist]

My great grandfather, grandfather, and uncle [moms side] were tobacco farmers in kentucky and never needed to use illegals to bring in their crops... and they made a damn good living at it. I don't understand how a large group of americans are OK with with not enforcing the 14th ammendment but will yell at the top of their lungs anytime 1st ammendment issues are questioned. A law is a law isn't it?

 

[LizardofOz]

i thought you said they had to pay $750 to get the work visa so isn't that more like $50 a week?

No, $750 one time fee. They pay that **** off in the first week. They are here doing this until around December, 2 months of cutting, then the rest is doing stuff in the tobacco barns.

 

[LizardofOz]

My great grandfather, grandfather, and uncle [moms side] were tobacco farmers in kentucky and never needed to use illegals to bring in their crops... and they made a damn good living at it. I don't understand how a large group of americans are OK with with not enforcing the 14th ammendment but will yell at the top of their lungs anytime 1st ammendment issues are questioned. A law is a law isn't it?

Ok yeah, my grandfather cut tobacco in KY also. He actually wrote a book called Tobacco Wars based on the troubles tobacco farmers had back in the 40s and 50s with the government and tobacco companies. Back then was a much different time when parents weren't afraid of there kids doing hard labor and everything was much more rural and community driven. Kentucky used to be nothing but tobacco farms, but thanks to city development and regulations that force tobacco farmers to only grow X amount that is not the case anymore.

 

[jallman]

You keep talking **** but you still can't explain anything about it to me.

Actually, you're WRONG. I didn't bother to try. We both know you know full well how to cut tobacco...you just can't do it well so you're in awe of Ramon and Jesus because they can and will for cheap.

It's a stupid argument for allowing illegals to remain illegal.

 

[Goobieman]

Wait...
We should allow people to work illegally and/or just give them citizenship because the work they do is "too hard"?

 

[VanceMack]

Wait...
We should allow people to work illegally and/or just give them citizenship because the work they do is "too hard"?

No...we should give them work visas and then send those Americans that cant or wont work to live mexico where Ramon and Jesus's wages are going to be going. If our economy cant benefit from the illegal aliens then we should send our crippled and dependent pets to live in mexico were they can benefit from their fine socialist structure. Seems like a fair trade...we take their industrious hard working folk and they take our dependents.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

No...we should give them work visas and then send those Americans that cant or wont work to live mexico where Ramon and Jesus's wages are going to be going. If our economy cant benefit from the illegal aliens then we should send our crippled and dependent pets to live in mexico were they can benefit from their fine socialist structure. Seems like a fair trade...we take their industrious hard working folk and they take our dependents.

Keyword has been bolded for easy location. They are illegals. I don't care if they are rocket scientists and doctors, if they come into this country by jumping the fence, they are criminals and should be treated like a common criminal. They should be charged, fined and deported. Upon returning illegally they should be locked up in a concentration camp for life.

I guarantee that would quell the problem to a large degree if they knew that if they got caught a second time they would be locked up like an animal in the desert.

 

[VanceMack]

Keyword has been bolded for easy location. They are illegals. I don't care if they are rocket scientists and doctors, if they come into this country by jumping the fence, they are criminals and should be treated like a common criminal. They should be charged, fined and deported. Upon returning illegally they should be locked up in a concentration camp for life.

I guarantee that would quell the problem to a large degree if they knew that if they got caught a second time they would be locked up like an animal in the desert.

I dont disagree...I just dont think it is an intelligent or viable solution. Im not fond of the concept of another civil war. Im also not fond of the expense from the enforcement. And frankly...I personally have a difficult time faulting illegal immigrants. I would do the same thing if I lived in that toilet of a country. And you have to admit...the reason they are here is because we have made it so easy and accessible for them.

 

[Barbbtx]

So the past few days I've been cutting and loading tobacco. Let me tell you about cutting tobacco. You cut the plant at the bottom, spear it on a stick, and you spear 6 plants per stick. It is a lot of bending down, cutting with an axe, and spearing while trying to keep these damn sticks in the ground. As best as I try I can only muster out around 50 an hour. The mexicans working though? Can do about 100 an hour or 600 tobacco plants. While on break I talk to them in Spanglish mostly and these poor guys have to pay $750 to get a work visa, the house the farmers had them up in wasn't to bad I guess, but they will work in Kentucy, NC, SC doing tobacco, then do oranges in flordia, with one 3 1/2 ft tall basket only getting them 75 cents. These people aren't taking our jobs, these people work incredibly hard doing incredibly hard crazy **** and deserve far more respect than anyone would ever give them. They are incredibly friendly, offer me their crazy food all the time just to see what I think of it and are always ok for a good laugh.

Republicans and democrats a like how could you not want someone to be here that embodies the American dream more than most of you ever will?

I don't know anyone who is complaining about Mexicans who are working here legally. The only thing I can think of to be more fair to them is to make the work visa less costly. If the wages were more, that will defeat the purpose of hiring seasonal workers. Sad but true. Other people would want those jobs and the Mexicans wouldn't be needed at all. That wouldn't be fair to them either.
Kind of reminds me of do-gooders who didn't want to see "little people" and the like exploited in side shows. They put those people out of work.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

I dont disagree...I just dont think it is an intelligent or viable solution. Im not fond of the concept of another civil war. Im also not fond of the expense from the enforcement. And frankly...I personally have a difficult time faulting illegal immigrants. I would do the same thing if I lived in that toilet of a country. And you have to admit...the reason they are here is because we have made it so easy and accessible for them.

How crappy Mexico is has no relevance to whether they have the right to break the laws of our nation by entering illegally.

There are ways to come here legally, if they choose to ignore them, they should be locked up, period.

 

[majora$$hole]

No, $750 one time fee. They pay that **** off in the first week. They are here doing this until around December, 2 months of cutting, then the rest is doing stuff in the tobacco barns.

if this is the case why do we have something like 20% unemployment i'm pretty sure some of those people would LOVE to see that kind of $.

 

[jallman]

if this is the case why do we have something like 20% unemployment i'm pretty sure some of those people would LOVE to see that kind of $.

Because they don't really see that kind of cash. Staking 100 tobacco plants an hour is not something you would see often at all. Hell, a typical field only has close to 2000 plants in it, so he's saying it would only take 4 migrants 5 hours to cut the entire field. If we'd had little Speedy Gonzaleses like that working our fields, we'd have been rich farmers.

That's not how it is though. Either his migrant friends are superhuman or they're hitting some serious stimulants on work hours. I am smelling bull****.

 

[VanceMack]

How crappy Mexico is has no relevance to whether they have the right to break the laws of our nation by entering illegally.

There are ways to come here legally, if they choose to ignore them, they should be locked up, period.

Not excusing it or justifying it...just saying...i understand it. And while the 'lock em up' idea sounds good it has zero practical application.

 

[RightinNYC]

As far as I know everyone is on the books, and it is recorded that they are either a US citizen (like myself) or they have a work visa (like the Mexican fellows working there).

...if they're all working there legally, then why would anyone object?

The entire discussion in this thread has been premised on the assumption that we were discussing illegal immigration, but now you want to add that they're all legal? JFC.

 

[jamesrage]

So the past few days I've been cutting and loading tobacco. Let me tell you about cutting tobacco. You cut the plant at the bottom, spear it on a stick, and you spear 6 plants per stick. It is a lot of bending down, cutting with an axe, and spearing while trying to keep these damn sticks in the ground. As best as I try I can only muster out around 50 an hour. The mexicans working though? Can do about 100 an hour or 600 tobacco plants. While on break I talk to them in Spanglish mostly and these poor guys have to pay $750 to get a work visa, the house the farmers had them up in wasn't to bad I guess, but they will work in Kentucy, NC, SC doing tobacco, then do oranges in flordia, with one 3 1/2 ft tall basket only getting them 75 cents.

This is the key here. You have been doing this for a few days, they have been doing it longer and I am sure if you work a while at it you can do the same amount of work they are doing.

These people aren't taking our jobs,

Yes they are. By working for wages that Americans won't or can't they deprive an American of that job.

Republicans and democrats a like how could you not want someone to be here that embodies the American dream more than most of you ever will?

I do not think trespassing and screwing Americans out of those jobs is the embodiment of the American dream.

 

[LizardofOz]

Actually, you're WRONG. I didn't bother to try. We both know you know full well how to cut tobacco...you just can't do it well so you're in awe of Ramon and Jesus because they can and will for cheap.

It's a stupid argument for allowing illegals to remain illegal.

Def am not wrong. You are talking **** about the work, claimed you knew how it works, I asked you about it and you ignored my post.

 

[LizardofOz]

Because they don't really see that kind of cash. Staking 100 tobacco plants an hour is not something you would see often at all. Hell, a typical field only has close to 2000 plants in it, so he's saying it would only take 4 migrants 5 hours to cut the entire field. If we'd had little Speedy Gonzaleses like that working our fields, we'd have been rich farmers.

That's not how it is though. Either his migrant friends are superhuman or they're hitting some serious stimulants on work hours. I am smelling bull****.

It takes 2 months for 3-4 people to do 150 acres. Here is the awesome thing about you--you can't make a ****ing point because you live in Los Angeles. Last time I was there I didn't see one tobacco field at all on skid row or down by Hollywood. I know, it is very hard to believe 100 sticks an hour. While that isn't forced, they would prefer you can do that amount. Would you like me to type word for word the job description from the unemployment office since you must know ****ing plenty about how the industry works all the way out there in So-Cal?

 

[jamesrage]

I support giving the illegals citizenship. They couldn't steal our jobs if they were citizens too.

They will be replaced with new illegals. People who are here legally can demand better wages, benifits,conditions and better work hours. Illegals can not demand those things.

 

[LizardofOz]

if this is the case why do we have something like 20% unemployment i'm pretty sure some of those people would LOVE to see that kind of $.

Because a lot of people aren't built for it, and it is incredibly tough work.

 

[LizardofOz]

This is the key here. You have been doing this for a few days, they have been doing it longer and I am sure if you work a while at it you can do the same amount of work they are doing.




Yes they are. By working for wages that Americans won't or can't they deprive an American of that job.




I do not think trespassing and screwing Americans out of those jobs is the embodiment of the American dream.

Well lets just say I just don't have the stamina for it. Don't get me wrong I can do hard ****, but this is the first time in my life that I ever met my limit at a job. I could do it for hours on end, just not very fast or efficently.

 

[jamesrage]

Well lets just say I just don't have the stamina for it. Don't get me wrong I can do hard ****, but this is the first time in my life that I ever met my limit at a job. I could do it for hours on end, just not very fast or efficently.

How long have you been doing work like this? Work is just like anything else in life, the more you do it the better you get at it.

 

[jallman]

Def am not wrong. You are talking **** about the work, claimed you knew how it works, I asked you about it and you ignored my post.

What would you like for me to explain to you about cutting tobacco and staking it in bundles, then?