• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

This is why I think we should just leave Mexicans alone.

JohnWOlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1,257
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
So the past few days I've been cutting and loading tobacco. Let me tell you about cutting tobacco. You cut the plant at the bottom, spear it on a stick, and you spear 6 plants per stick. It is a lot of bending down, cutting with an axe, and spearing while trying to keep these damn sticks in the ground. As best as I try I can only muster out around 50 an hour. The mexicans working though? Can do about 100 an hour or 600 tobacco plants. While on break I talk to them in Spanglish mostly and these poor guys have to pay $750 to get a work visa, the house the farmers had them up in wasn't to bad I guess, but they will work in Kentucy, NC, SC doing tobacco, then do oranges in flordia, with one 3 1/2 ft tall basket only getting them 75 cents. These people aren't taking our jobs, these people work incredibly hard doing incredibly hard crazy **** and deserve far more respect than anyone would ever give them. They are incredibly friendly, offer me their crazy food all the time just to see what I think of it and are always ok for a good laugh.

Republicans and democrats a like how could you not want someone to be here that embodies the American dream more than most of you ever will?
 

Teh Internets

Active member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
351
Reaction score
125
Location
Virginia, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I support giving the illegals citizenship. They couldn't steal our jobs if they were citizens too.
 

JohnWOlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1,257
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
It was funny I asked the one, "Arizona loco, si?" to which he replied "Si no good no good.". Then I said jokingly "I know who else is going to pick all their crops?" and then he said "I know it make no sense!"
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
So the past few days I've been cutting and loading tobacco. Let me tell you about cutting tobacco. You cut the plant at the bottom, spear it on a stick, and you spear 6 plants per stick. It is a lot of bending down, cutting with an axe, and spearing while trying to keep these damn sticks in the ground. As best as I try I can only muster out around 50 an hour. The mexicans working though? Can do about 100 an hour or 600 tobacco plants. While on break I talk to them in Spanglish mostly and these poor guys have to pay $750 to get a work visa, the house the farmers had them up in wasn't to bad I guess, but they will work in Kentucy, NC, SC doing tobacco, then do oranges in flordia, with one 3 1/2 ft tall basket only getting them 75 cents. These people aren't taking our jobs, these people work incredibly hard doing incredibly hard crazy **** and deserve far more respect than anyone would ever give them. They are incredibly friendly, offer me their crazy food all the time just to see what I think of it and are always ok for a good laugh.

Republicans and democrats a like how could you not want someone to be here that embodies the American dream more than most of you ever will?
We don't have that much tobacco to pick in Chicago. Congress should pass the Guest Worker Program as proposed by George Bush. I don't oppose Mexicans coming into the United States legally. I don't know of anyone who does. Maybe we should just say, "Come one, come all." But until we do (which, of course, we never will), they need to obey the laws like everyone else.
 

washunut

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
11,559
Reaction score
3,319
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
We don't have that much tobacco to pick in Chicago. Congress should pass the Guest Worker Program as proposed by George Bush. I don't oppose Mexicans coming into the United States legally. I don't know of anyone who does. Maybe we should just say, "Come one, come all." But until we do (which, of course, we never will), they need to obey the laws like everyone else.
My sense is that the people who do not want these people to come here legally to worker are the employers. If these people were legal guest workers they could not be exploited the way they are. They would have to be paid properly, not have to always look over their shoulder afraid of the police etc.
 

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,901
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
You make em citizens you have to pay the illegal alien horde minimum wage, think about that for a moment.
 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,915
Reaction score
11,283
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
So the past few days I've been cutting and loading tobacco. Let me tell you about cutting tobacco. You cut the plant at the bottom, spear it on a stick, and you spear 6 plants per stick. It is a lot of bending down, cutting with an axe, and spearing while trying to keep these damn sticks in the ground. As best as I try I can only muster out around 50 an hour. The mexicans working though? Can do about 100 an hour or 600 tobacco plants. While on break I talk to them in Spanglish mostly and these poor guys have to pay $750 to get a work visa, the house the farmers had them up in wasn't to bad I guess, but they will work in Kentucy, NC, SC doing tobacco, then do oranges in flordia, with one 3 1/2 ft tall basket only getting them 75 cents. These people aren't taking our jobs, these people work incredibly hard doing incredibly hard crazy **** and deserve far more respect than anyone would ever give them. They are incredibly friendly, offer me their crazy food all the time just to see what I think of it and are always ok for a good laugh.

Republicans and democrats a like how could you not want someone to be here that embodies the American dream more than most of you ever will?
Well that's a very mealy mouthed way of saying "I'm ok with criminals if they pick my 'bacco for $2.00 an hour".
 

rivrrat

Goddess of Bacon
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
13,988
Reaction score
6,593
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It was funny I asked the one, "Arizona loco, si?" to which he replied "Si no good no good.". Then I said jokingly "I know who else is going to pick all their crops?" and then he said "I know it make no sense!"
So, I guess since you were out there picking crops, you're an illegal Mexican? I mean, apparently there's not a citizen in this country that would actually do that kind of work. Right?
 

JohnWOlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1,257
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Well that's a very mealy mouthed way of saying "I'm ok with criminals if they pick my 'bacco for $2.00 an hour".
Considering they average 100 sticks an hour at 12 cents a stick that's $2 an hour?

Also rivrrat, the guys I worked with are built for this kind of stuff, I obviously am not. It is hard to explain to someone that has no idea wtf they are talking about, but being short helps when cutting tobacco. Also no there really are not to many citizens that would do this for 12 hours a day for 2 months straight no there aren't and if you find one let me know.

Well that's a very mealy mouthed way of saying "I'm ok with criminals if they pick my 'bacco for $2.00 an hour".
Who said they were criminals? They pay $750 just to have the right to come up here and work. What about them grapes in Cali who is picking them?
 

Johnny

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
571
Reaction score
205
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Illegal immigration is a crime. An illegal committed a crime the minute they crossed the border. They're continuing the commission of that crime every breathing moment they stay.

You're proof that Americans are willing to do the work. More Americabs could be doing it if they weren't taking the jobs.
 

Johnny

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
571
Reaction score
205
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'd do that work in the states. I've worked in the sugar cane fields here.
 

JohnWOlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1,257
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
No dude you don't understand. Mexicans are MACHINES at this stuff. They do it without breaking a sweat, with no gloves, wearing long sleeve button up shirts. TOTAL MACHINES. I have massive respect for them, how polite they are, how humble they are, and they are very entertained by my broken Spanish. But yeah I quit doing it, it was to much on me. lol
 

Johnny

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
571
Reaction score
205
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
No dude you don't understand. Mexicans are MACHINES at this stuff. They do it without breaking a sweat, with no gloves, wearing long sleeve button up shirts. TOTAL MACHINES. I have massive respect for them, how polite they are, how humble they are, and they are very entertained by my broken Spanish. But yeah I quit doing it, it was to much on me. lol

They are hard workers. They are great people.

But they are illegal and should be deported. I'm not being a dick. I'm saying it how it is.
 

JohnWOlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1,257
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
They are hard workers. They are great people.

But they are illegal and should be deported. I'm not being a dick. I'm saying it how it is.
They should be deported because they paid $750 for a work visa and are doing someone no one else will do?
 

Johnny

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
571
Reaction score
205
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'm not talking about workers with a visa. That's legal immigration.

I'm talking about the people that snuck in.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The first thing I'd do is ask why I was unable to perform my job with even half the efficiency of another group of people.

They should be deported because they paid $750 for a work visa and are doing someone no one else will do?
Every tobacco worker is an illegal immigrant?

Weren't you doing that exact job until you quit?
 

Helvidius

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
735
Reaction score
325
Location
Good ol' US of A
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
There is no doubt that many of the immigrants are extremely hard working individuals. However, when people illegally enter the country you have no way of knowing what kind of people are going to immigrate over. For every hardworking immigrant you have met there is likely a drug dealer or gangbanger who has also crossed illegally. Check out the gang MS-13 to get an idea of what can happen when anyone is free to cross the border.
 

Helvidius

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
735
Reaction score
325
Location
Good ol' US of A
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
And what exactly is the American Dream these immigrants embody?
 

JohnWOlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1,257
Location
Kentucky
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The first thing I'd do is ask why I was unable to perform my job with even half the efficiency of another group of people.



Every tobacco worker is an illegal immigrant?

Weren't you doing that exact job until you quit?
There is a lot of work I would do that most people would probably think was beneath them. Most people think any kind of farm work is beneath them. Ever wake up every morning and pick up about 120 dead chickens with a bunch of buckets and throw them in a giant hole in the ground? Probably not. You want to know why I couldn't do it as good as them? It isn't something you exactly can get used to after not doing stuff like this for a few years, they live and breath farms. I needed money thought I would give it a shot, but couldn't make it up to par it's that simple.

Also they embody the American dream because they are hard working, humble, modest people that don't want a pat on the back for every little thing they do, they just want to make their money.
 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,915
Reaction score
11,283
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Also rivrrat, the guys I worked with are built for this kind of stuff, I obviously am not. It is hard to explain to someone that has no idea wtf they are talking about, but being short helps when cutting tobacco. Also no there really are not to many citizens that would do this for 12 hours a day for 2 months straight no there aren't and if you find one let me know.
Oh by the way...grew up on a tobacco farm. It isn't that hard. Topping tobacco is actually worse work to me because of the sap you use. And yeah we had a few migrant workers, but mostly it was high school boys who wanted jobs for the summer. I guess we were all illegal mexicans too, by your logic.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
There is a lot of work I would do that most people would probably think was beneath them. Most people think any kind of farm work is beneath them.
And the number of people who think that work is "beneath them" would be much fewer if the market for those farm wages were not artificially depressed by illegal immigration.

Ever wake up every morning and pick up about 120 dead chickens with a bunch of buckets and throw them in a giant hole in the ground? Probably not.
I've woken up and shoveled horse ****.

You want to know why I couldn't do it as good as them? It isn't something you exactly can get used to after not doing stuff like this for a few years, they live and breath farms. I needed money thought I would give it a shot, but couldn't make it up to par it's that simple.
So you're saying that illegal immigrants are intrinsically more capable of learning how to do this unskilled labor based on their imagined farm background? I think that's a little far-fetched.

Also they embody the American dream because they are hard working, humble, modest people that don't want a pat on the back for every little thing they do, they just want to make their money.
At least when you make sweeping generalizations, you do so in a positive fashion too.
 
Top Bottom