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This is a coup: Protests Engulf Wisconsin Capitol as Outgoing Scott Walker and GOP Move to Cripple D

celticwar17

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This is.... a Coup?

:roll: just when I thought you guys couldn't get any more dramatic.
 

apdst

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Commie Dreams....haven't seen this Leftist rag before.

Common dreams makes Infowars look mainstream. Real commie mother****ers.
 

Saladin4

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Walker got his ass booed tonight...He actually ran out of the capital rotunda in fear...Great to see the people voice their displeasure...Best he stay out of sight
 

rocket88

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Cardinal

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This is.... a Coup?

:roll: just when I thought you guys couldn't get any more dramatic.

The peaceful transfer of power is what a Democracy is predicated on. When the people vote and choose somebody else, you step aside and transfer power. Peacefully. Voting to remove power from the people the voters elected is not in line with Democracy.
 

Oborosen

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Being as this is about the same thing as what was in this thread: Link I'll just copy/paste what I said there...

Hate sounding like a broken record here but apparently some people need a refresher course on history.

Passing as many bills as possible by an outgoing party is nothing new. Lame-duck session

Dems do it. Repubs do it. This is nothing new as each party attempts to preserve what they have done so that the next party will not be able to simply revoke it all and put their own agenda that's counter to it in place.

And no. This is not an attempt to defend. It's simply statements of fact that point out that this is nothing new. It's literally a part of the process that we have in our government. There is no way to stop it from happening.

Now: As for what is quoted...

I don't think that it is in The Peoples best interests for any government to withdraw a legal challenge to something just because you support the law and don't want it challenged in court because there might be a possibility of it being shot down. It should be mandatory to finish going through the court system to determine the legitimacy of what is being challenged. If something is unconstitutional then it should be struck down. Not preserved based on party ideology. If it is Constitutional then you should not be worrying about it and let it proceed to PROVE that it is Constitutional. IMO both parties take advantage of the fact that our courts are overburdened and essentially have to triage court cases. And that is wrong. Of course I'm also of the opinion, which I have stated before, that our legislatures should be proving that the laws they want to pass are Constitutional before they attempt to pass the laws. But we don't demand that of our Representatives and as such they often pass laws simply because the know the likelyhood of them ever actually getting to the highest court in the land is extremely low.

Note: This also was not a defense of what the Republicans are doing. It's a defense of our Constitution and our Rights and I want it applied regardless of party in power.

As for limiting the voting to two weeks...quite frankly voting day should be made a holiday and require ALL businesses to close for that day. In addition ALL schools, should be a place in which you can vote. Additionally any public fair grounds should have voting booths set up so people can vote there. Since every town has schools this would guarantee a local location to get to in order to vote. Voting times begin at 12:00AM and will last until 11:59PM. With all of this in effect the only ones that should be allowed to vote early are those that are elderly (linked to the age which you can get SS), or disabled, or for those that are going to provably be out of town. I would also include in that types of businesses that could not safely close, such as emergency services. For example if you run an EMT business you would be allowed to stay open, but the employees would be allowed to vote early. Again, this would apply to any business that cannot safely close. Due to all of this there should be no reason that a two week early voting limit would be harmful to anyone.

 

rocket88

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Being as this is about the same thing as what was in this thread: Link I'll just copy/paste what I said there...

Hate sounding like a broken record here but apparently some people need a refresher course on history.

Passing as many bills as possible by an outgoing party is nothing new. Lame-duck session

Dems do it. Repubs do it. This is nothing new as each party attempts to preserve what they have done so that the next party will not be able to simply revoke it all and put their own agenda that's counter to it in place.

And no. This is not an attempt to defend. It's simply statements of fact that point out that this is nothing new. It's literally a part of the process that we have in our government. There is no way to stop it from happening.

Now: As for what is quoted...

I don't think that it is in The Peoples best interests for any government to withdraw a legal challenge to something just because you support the law and don't want it challenged in court because there might be a possibility of it being shot down. It should be mandatory to finish going through the court system to determine the legitimacy of what is being challenged. If something is unconstitutional then it should be struck down. Not preserved based on party ideology. If it is Constitutional then you should not be worrying about it and let it proceed to PROVE that it is Constitutional. IMO both parties take advantage of the fact that our courts are overburdened and essentially have to triage court cases. And that is wrong. Of course I'm also of the opinion, which I have stated before, that our legislatures should be proving that the laws they want to pass are Constitutional before they attempt to pass the laws. But we don't demand that of our Representatives and as such they often pass laws simply because the know the likelyhood of them ever actually getting to the highest court in the land is extremely low.

Note: This also was not a defense of what the Republicans are doing. It's a defense of our Constitution and our Rights and I want it applied regardless of party in power.

As for limiting the voting to two weeks...quite frankly voting day should be made a holiday and require ALL businesses to close for that day. In addition ALL schools, should be a place in which you can vote. Additionally any public fair grounds should have voting booths set up so people can vote there. Since every town has schools this would guarantee a local location to get to in order to vote. Voting times begin at 12:00AM and will last until 11:59PM. With all of this in effect the only ones that should be allowed to vote early are those that are elderly (linked to the age which you can get SS), or disabled, or for those that are going to provably be out of town. I would also include in that types of businesses that could not safely close, such as emergency services. For example if you run an EMT business you would be allowed to stay open, but the employees would be allowed to vote early. Again, this would apply to any business that cannot safely close. Due to all of this there should be no reason that a two week early voting limit would be harmful to anyone.


So it is in the people's best interest to challenge a law you disagree with, but withdrawing the challenge when things change isn't?
 

rocket88

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There really isn't anything wrong here, as it's all within notable government power. Just calling it a "lame duck" session is a faded attempt at delegitimizing what they are attempting to do, even though the democrats have done the same in the past.

Rules for the and not for me as usual I guess.

Republicans never tried to delegitimize. That's why they confirmed Derrick Garland to the Supreme Court. Oh wait....

The people of Wisconsin chose a more liberal direction for their state. Pure and simple. Now Republicans are trying to reverse the election results. Is it just Democrats who have to respect those?
 

EMNofSeattle

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I mean if by Coup you mean the democratically elected legislature passing legislation then I guess... yeah
 

Oborosen

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Republicans never tried to delegitimize. That's why they confirmed Derrick Garland to the Supreme Court. Oh wait....

The people of Wisconsin chose a more liberal direction for their state. Pure and simple. Now Republicans are trying to reverse the election results. Is it just Democrats who have to respect those?

Respect it as an action in general, or as a legitimate use of governmental power?

The "lame duck" session is something that isn't as rare as the article would like to paint it and while it may be uncouth at this point and time. I don't see anything wrong with the republicans doing this before they leave.
 

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So it is in the people's best interest to challenge a law you disagree with, but withdrawing the challenge when things change isn't?

All laws should be challenged. Or didn't I make that clear enough for you when I wrote:

Of course I'm also of the opinion, which I have stated before, that our legislatures should be proving that the laws they want to pass are Constitutional before they attempt to pass the laws. But we don't demand that of our Representatives and as such they often pass laws simply because the know the likelyhood of them ever actually getting to the highest court in the land is extremely low.
 

ttwtt78640

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Perhaps those who see some (or extreme?) danger in "lame duck" legislative/executive actions should re-examine their support for term limits. Since incumbents tend to win re-election at an alarming rate (over 90% in congress) then the implementation of term limits would be very likely to create a periodic (cyclic?) hoard (herd?) of lame duck congress critters.
 

Taylor

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Disraeli

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Perhaps those who see some (or extreme?) danger in "lame duck" legislative/executive actions should re-examine their support for term limits. Since incumbents tend to win re-election at an alarming rate (over 90% in congress) then the implementation of term limits would be very likely to create a periodic (cyclic?) hoard (herd?) of lame duck congress critters.

My 1st post, thanks for having me!

Incumbents win reelection 90% of the time but the generic approval of Congress is catastrophically low, why is that?

Protests and outrage as seen in Wisconsin will accomplish nothing. The Democrats need a focused, effective strategy, and that has not been forthcoming from their leadership whom they seem set to ratify again. The last Republican to win the popular vote for President ironically, was George H.W. Bush in 1988, but the Republicans had, until recently a hold on all three branches of government!

I find it difficult to only blame the thief when you leave your doors and windows unlocked as the Democrats continue to do.
 

ttwtt78640

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My 1st post, thanks for having me!

Incumbents win reelection 90% of the time but the generic approval of Congress is catastrophically low, why is that?

Protests and outrage as seen in Wisconsin will accomplish nothing. The Democrats need a focused, effective strategy, and that has not been forthcoming from their leadership whom they seem set to ratify again. The last Republican to win the popular vote for President ironically, was George H.W. Bush in 1988, but the Republicans had, until recently a hold on all three branches of government!

I find it difficult to only blame the thief when you leave your doors and windows unlocked as the Democrats continue to do.

Congressional incumbents most often either run unopposed or face weak competition (and voter turnout) in their primary elections. That leaves the (terrible?) choice of voting for the 'wrong' party's candidate in the general election as the only viable way of removing that incumbent from office. Many seem to see having a fairly bad (D or R) as better than having a worse (R or D) as their own congress critter(s).

Example: almost all would agree that Maxine Waters is a terrible congress critter yet she faced no demorat challengers in the primary election and her district is obviously loathe to elect any republicant.

https://ballotpedia.org/California's_43rd_Congressional_District_election,_2018
 

Felis Leo

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I am sorry, rocket88, but I think this is an irresponsibly-labeled thread. I realize that everyone gets up in arms over semantics, but what happened here is that, as many have pointed out, a democratically-elected state legislature voted to take away certain powers to the executive branch of the state. This wasn't the national guard or police storming the state capitol and declaring a state of emergency, while refusing to allow the governor-elect to take power. This was a perfectly legal action. To casually call the legitimate use of legislative power a "coup" denotes total illegality and illegitimacy, and must necessitate violence.
 

Winston

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The GOP doesn't believe in democracy.
 

Felis Leo

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The GOP doesn't believe in democracy.

And Democrats do not believe that any form legitimate democracy even exists when they lose elections. :roll: You will forgive me, Winston, but this is what everyone in a democratic society says of their opposition. It helps nothing, and does not reflect the slightest iota of truth.
 

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