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So, I take it Your God Killed Jesus

Elvira said:
No, the destruction lasts forever...angels are not immortal...God can kill them...
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No the fire is everlasting and the angels are in the fire forever. They suffer forever which makes them immortal.
 
devildavid said:
No the fire is everlasting and the angels are in the fire forever. They suffer forever which makes them immortal.
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Wrong...speaking of Christ...

"He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality," 1 Timothy 15,16
 
Elvira said:
Wrong...heaven was not a part of God's purpose for man nor was death the natural, purposed thing for humans...God indicated that he purposed the earth to be full of living humans, not a deteriorating, dying race...

“As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men.” Psalm 116:15

That purpose will be fulfilled...

"So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do." Isaiah 55:11
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That is not what Paul was saying. You quote other parts of the bible that have nothing to do with what Paul was saying. He said through death we will be changed.
 
Elvira said:
Wrong...speaking of Christ...

"He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality," 1 Timothy 15,16
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So the humans that inherit the earth with him will have to die as well. How long do they get this time around before he snuffs them all out? Plus, if only Jesus is the one alone who has immortality, what about his father?
 
devildavid said:
So the humans that inherit the earth with him will have to die as well. How long do they get this time around before he snuffs them all out? Plus, if only Jesus is the one alone who has immortality, what about his father?
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7.7 billion people on earth, but only 144,000 get to land in the promise land. Kind of selective, if you ask me.
 
devildavid said:
Not what Elvira believes. She thinks Jesus was the first angel.
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I thought Lucifer was the first angel, but he kind of fell out of favor.
 
devildavid said:
So the humans that inherit the earth with him will have to die as well. How long do they get this time around before he snuffs them all out? Plus, if only Jesus is the one alone who has immortality, what about his father?
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Already covered...God granted Jesus immortality...he is the only one besides Jehovah...

"Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah?
O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." Habakkuk 1:12
 
calamity said:
7.7 billion people on earth, but only 144,000 get to land in the promise land. Kind of selective, if you ask me.
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All based on some crazy book included in the bible that is completely metaphorical in nature. Anyone who takes anything from that book literally is dead wrong. It is all written in highly symbolically charged language that anyone who was not of that time cannot possibly comprehend.

But hey, lets base a strange form of Christianity on it and see how many fall for it.
 
calamity said:
I thought Lucifer was the first angel, but he kind of fell out of favor.
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Not according to Elvira. Jesus didn't just show up during Biblical times when he was made flesh. He existed from the get go.
 
calamity said:
7.7 billion people on earth, but only 144,000 get to land in the promise land. Kind of selective, if you ask me.
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Nope, 144,000 go to heaven to rule with Christ for 1,000 years over the great crowd who'll be living on earth...speaking of the 144,000...

"you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” Revelation 5:9,10
 
devildavid said:
Not according to Elvira. Jesus didn't just show up during Biblical times when he was made flesh. He existed from the get go.
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Metaphorically, I could see that working.
 
Elvira said:
Already covered...God granted Jesus immortality...he is the only one besides Jehovah...

"Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah?
O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." Habakkuk 1:12
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No, god did not do that at all, and that quote does not support your claim. Nor can you show anything that supports your claim that god created jesus as the first angel. Plus, there cannot be two "only" ones. Not possible.
 
Elvira said:
Nope, 144,000 go to heaven to rule with Christ for 1,000 years over the great crowd who'll be living on earth...speaking of the 144,000...

"you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” Revelation 5:9,10
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1000 years...that sounds a little to Third Reich to me.
 
calamity said:
I thought Lucifer was the first angel, but he kind of fell out of favor.
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Lucifer was not an angel at all...

Questions From Readers

• Is Lucifer a name that the Bible uses for Satan?

The name Lucifer occurs once in the Scriptures and only in some versions of the Bible. For example, the King James Version renders Isaiah 14:12: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!”

The Hebrew word translated “Lucifer” means “shining one.” The Septuagint uses the Greek word that means “bringer of dawn.” Hence, some translations render the original Hebrew “morning star” or “Daystar.” But Jerome’s Latin Vulgate uses “Lucifer” (light bearer), and this accounts for the appearance of that term in various versions of the Bible.

Who is this Lucifer? The expression “shining one,” or “Lucifer,” is found in what Isaiah prophetically commanded the Israelites to pronounce as a “proverbial saying against the king of Babylon.” Thus, it is part of a saying primarily directed at the Babylonian dynasty. That the description “shining one” is given to a man and not to a spirit creature is further seen by the statement: “Down to Sheol you will be brought.” Sheol is the common grave of mankind—not a place occupied by Satan the Devil. Moreover, those seeing Lucifer brought into this condition ask: “Is this the man that was agitating the earth?” Clearly, “Lucifer” refers to a human, not to a spirit creature.—Isaiah 14:4, 15, 16.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002687
 
calamity said:
As someone who actually liked the guy they called Jesus, I'm a little pissed that this god had him murdered. Oh, god had Jesus killed all right. Remember, god sent the boy here to die...or so we are led to believe. So, if that is true, then god killed that boy dead.

I ask. Why?

Isn't it kind of sick to worship a god who murders his own son in front of an entire town? And, what was the point of it anyway? Did he do it just to prove he could? None of this crucifixion myth makes sense.

Is it not much more reasonable to believe that Jesus, the man, stirred enough animus that the locals formed a mob to take him out? No god. Just people doing what they do best, overreacting with violence.
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For engaging Christianity in any meaningful way, one must accept premise. If one is to learn something about the story or someone, one must understand or at least accept premise.

The first thing to be thrown at your wall of "If I was Pope" is free will. Then we have the trinity. Oh, all kinds of mess. At some point we visit Abraham (who did not believe his child would die... hint). There's just so much you don't see it's kinda worthless to engage when a lecture is what you need.

Essentially, you're making an argument from ignorance and relying on fellow ignorance for props.
 
Elvira said:
Nope, 144,000 go to heaven to rule with Christ for 1,000 years over the great crowd who'll be living on earth...speaking of the 144,000...

"you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” Revelation 5:9,10
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I thought the flesh couldn't go to heaven. And I thought only Jesus was going to rule on earth. All according to your beliefs, of course. That quote does not say they join god in heaven.
 
calamity said:
1000 years...that sounds a little to Third Reich to me.
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After the Millennial Reign, Jesus will turn all things back over to Jehovah God...

"Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." 1 Corinthians 15:24
 
Elvira said:
After the Millennial Reign, Jesus will turn all things back over to Jehovah God...

"Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." 1 Corinthians 15:24
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Yeah, that's all too bizarre for my tastes. 100 years of life is more than enough.
 
devildavid said:
I thought the flesh couldn't go to heaven. And I thought only Jesus was going to rule on earth. All according to your beliefs, of course. That quote does not say they join god in heaven.
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True...they will be spirit creatures, who will also be granted immortality...

Kingdom Heirs Granted Immortality. For the anointed Christians called to reign with Christ in the heavens (1Pe 1:3, 4), the promise is that they share with Christ in the likeness of his resurrection. (Ro 6:5) Thus, as in the case of their Lord and Head, the anointed members of the Christian congregation who die faithful receive a resurrection to immortal spirit life, so that “this which is mortal puts on immortality.” (1Co 15:50-54) As with Jesus, immortality in their case does not mean simply everlasting life, or mere freedom from death. That they, too, are granted “the power of an indestructible life” as fellow heirs with Christ is seen from the apostle Paul’s association of incorruptibility with the immortality they attain. (1Co 15:42-49) Over them “the second death has no authority.”—Re 20:6; see INCORRUPTION.

This grant of immortality to the Kingdom heirs is all the more remarkable, in view of the fact that even God’s angels are shown to be mortal, despite their possessing spirit bodies, not carnal ones. Angelic mortality is evident in view of the judgment of death entered against the spirit son who became God’s Adversary, or Satan, and also against those other angels who followed that satanic course and “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place.” (Jude 6; Mt 25:41; Re 20:10, 14) So the grant of “indestructible life” (Heb 7:16) or “indissoluble life” to those Christians who gain the privilege of reigning with God’s Son in the heavenly Kingdom marvelously demonstrates God’s confidence in them.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002155
 
calamity said:
Yeah, that's all too bizarre for my tastes. 100 years of life is more than enough.
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Life at that time will be nothing like this life...no growing old, no dying, no sickness...

"And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:4
 
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