• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Self Defense v. Animal Cruelty

Should self defense be a acceptable defense in animal cruelty, precieved or real case

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 73.9%
  • No

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 5 21.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

Travelsonic

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
1,388
Reaction score
327
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Do you think there should be exceptions - if there aren't already - in animal cruelty laws for what could be considered self defense?

For example, if you are in some public place that is frequented by Canada geese and somebody there finds himself being chased/pecked at/etc by one, despite knowing he isn't anywhere near a nest, and decides to kick the goose (injuring it or inadvertently killing it) and escaping (as in not sticking around to kick, stomp, or further deface the body of the goose) to get help. Would that be considered self defense to you?

At the college I go to, we have a huge goose problem - Canada geese that didn't migrate this year. They are everywhere - literally hundreds of them eating, honking, and sh*tting. Now mating season has come, and they are getting aggressive. I mapped out where the nests are - aside from one or two right now, I know most of them are on roofs away from the public.

Even still, issues arise - one guy was cut up pretty badly a few weeks ago by an aggressive goose, and I've had geese following me, hissing and honking madly in front of buildings where the nests were on the roof, not at ground level, and it is such where I am beginning to consider the circumstances of being cornered, or in any other situation where force is necessary to get out of it, what to do, consequences, etc, and am confused / unsure about it all, especially seeing videos of goose attacks online.
 
Last edited:

repeter

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,445
Reaction score
682
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I'd be worried of having that exception because it would be used to death by defense lawyers...I'd expect animal cruelty cases to be completely dependent on whether there was danger to the person who allegedly committed animal cruelty.

But I think the exception is still a valid one. If an animal dies by your hand because it attacked you, and didn't stop attacking you, its not cruelty, its defense.

If you hit an animal, and it starts to attack you in its own defense, and you end up killing/beating it, thats on you.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,987
Reaction score
16,579
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Is it really cruelty if it self defense?Thats calling it burglar cruelty when a homeowner shoots a burglar or rapist cruelty if someone stops the rapist. What if someone tries to shoot you and you shoot them first is it potential murderer cruelty?
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
It depends. If it is really self defense.

Recently there was a case here in Los Angeles where a guy tried to argue he killed a 6 month old german shepherd in self defense...
It was a completely bogus case.

If it is a legimitmate case I support it...but where it is bull ****.....I'm going to call it out every time.
 

Baralis

DP Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
2,400
Reaction score
1,551
Location
MO
Political Leaning
Independent
I could see self defence overridding animal cruelty in some cases but I believe it should only be considered in cases when serious bodily harm or death may result. Geese are not likely to cause either, believe me I know. I grew up on a farm and as a small child was constanly getting my ass whooped by a wide assortment of animals including geese, turkeys, roosters, goats, others. These only resulted in a few cuts and bruises and would consider striking (or more) them as abuse.
 

Regicollis

Active member
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
318
Reaction score
163
Location
Denmark
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The purpose of animal cruelty laws has never been to forbid people from fending off attacks. Cruelty is something completely different.
 

LiveUninhibited

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
548
Reaction score
140
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE5pGeCUM-Y"]YouTube- south park clip[/nomedia]
 

Travelsonic

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
1,388
Reaction score
327
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
The purpose of animal cruelty laws has never been to forbid people from fending off attacks. Cruelty is something completely different.

Just ask the rabid groups like PeTA, who have managed to sway things to their distorted reasoning before.
 

hiswoman

Traditional
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
3,049
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Cypress, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
My roommate has a friend whose pet wallaby was torn to pieces this morning by a pack of neighborhood dogs. Do I think it's animal cruelty for him to hunt those dogs down and put them out of everyone's misery? No.


 

mikhail

blond bombshell
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
4,728
Reaction score
763
Location
uk
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I think we should all have a moment of silience for the 1000s of victims of geese
 

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,586
Reaction score
50,204
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Do you think there should be exceptions - if there aren't already - in animal cruelty laws for what could be considered self defense?

For example, if you are in some public place that is frequented by Canada geese and somebody there finds himself being chased/pecked at/etc by one, despite knowing he isn't anywhere near a nest, and decides to kick the goose (injuring it or inadvertently killing it) and escaping (as in not sticking around to kick, stomp, or further deface the body of the goose) to get help. Would that be considered self defense to you?

At the college I go to, we have a huge goose problem - Canada geese that didn't migrate this year. They are everywhere - literally hundreds of them eating, honking, and sh*tting. Now mating season has come, and they are getting aggressive. I mapped out where the nests are - aside from one or two right now, I know most of them are on roofs away from the public.

Even still, issues arise - one guy was cut up pretty badly a few weeks ago by an aggressive goose, and I've had geese following me, hissing and honking madly in front of buildings where the nests were on the roof, not at ground level, and it is such where I am beginning to consider the circumstances of being cornered, or in any other situation where force is necessary to get out of it, what to do, consequences, etc, and am confused / unsure about it all, especially seeing videos of goose attacks online.


Frack the damn geese. If it acts like its going to attack, kick the **** out of it and remind it who the dominant species is.

Animal abuse, pah. I totally don't get this. Anything or anyone that attacks you is subject to an ass-whuppin'.

Are Canadian geese suddenly on the endangered species list or something? Doubt it.
 
Last edited:

repeter

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
3,445
Reaction score
682
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Frack the damn geese. If it acts like its going to attack, kick the **** out of it and remind it who the dominant species is.

Animal abuse, pah. I totally don't get this. Anything or anyone that attacks you is subject to an ass-whuppin'.
Are Canadian geese suddenly on the endangered species list or something? Doubt it.

That is the point of this, should that be an acceptable defense? It should, but we shuold also expect to see nearly every animal cruelty case be based upon self-defense or not.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
81,601
Reaction score
49,861
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Do you think there should be exceptions - if there aren't already - in animal cruelty laws for what could be considered self defense?

For example, if you are in some public place that is frequented by Canada geese and somebody there finds himself being chased/pecked at/etc by one, despite knowing he isn't anywhere near a nest, and decides to kick the goose (injuring it or inadvertently killing it) and escaping (as in not sticking around to kick, stomp, or further deface the body of the goose) to get help. Would that be considered self defense to you?

At the college I go to, we have a huge goose problem - Canada geese that didn't migrate this year. They are everywhere - literally hundreds of them eating, honking, and sh*tting. Now mating season has come, and they are getting aggressive. I mapped out where the nests are - aside from one or two right now, I know most of them are on roofs away from the public.

Even still, issues arise - one guy was cut up pretty badly a few weeks ago by an aggressive goose, and I've had geese following me, hissing and honking madly in front of buildings where the nests were on the roof, not at ground level, and it is such where I am beginning to consider the circumstances of being cornered, or in any other situation where force is necessary to get out of it, what to do, consequences, etc, and am confused / unsure about it all, especially seeing videos of goose attacks online.

I happen to hate those f'n geese. They're constantly here in CO too and they're rude, obnoxious jerks who don't know their place. They crap all over the place, stand defiantly when you want to pass, will often act aggressively against humans. Personally, I'd rather see them all shot and leave their carcasses for the foxes. Piece of **** birds!
 

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,586
Reaction score
50,204
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That is the point of this, should that be an acceptable defense? It should, but we shuold also expect to see nearly every animal cruelty case be based upon self-defense or not.

Taking your boot and giving a goose a decent aerial boost need not be fatal or inflict serious injury, and tends to adjust the goose's attitude. How this could be animal cruelty if the stupid thing was acting aggressive is beyond me.

Now if some moron starts catching the the things, breaking their beaks and then releasing them (like some vile cretin did here a few years back), that is clearly animal cruelty.

The thing about cruelty is that it is causing needless and excessive suffering. Giving a fiesty goose the boot isn't needless nor excessive.
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
81,601
Reaction score
49,861
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Taking your boot and giving a goose a decent aerial boost need not be fatal or inflict serious injury, and tends to adjust the goose's attitude. How this could be animal cruelty if the stupid thing was acting aggressive is beyond me.

Now if some moron starts catching the the things, breaking their beaks and then releasing them (like some vile cretin did here a few years back), that is clearly animal cruelty.

The thing about cruelty is that it is causing needless and excessive suffering. Giving a fiesty goose the boot isn't needless nor excessive.

....what if we just shoot them dead? No suffering or anything like that, clean and easy. Is it animal abuse?
 

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,586
Reaction score
50,204
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
....what if we just shoot them dead? No suffering or anything like that, clean and easy. Is it animal abuse?

I'm not overly fond of the buggers myself, unless they've been cooked. :mrgreen:


I tend to shoot a few of them every year or two and make Pineapple Sweet-and-Sour goose out of them.
 

Kali

Stigmatized! End R Word!
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
13,333
Reaction score
1,835
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Nah. Just let birds peck ya to death:)
 

earthworm

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
5,728
Reaction score
904
Location
Goldsboro,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
My roommate has a friend whose pet wallaby was torn to pieces this morning by a pack of neighborhood dogs. Do I think it's animal cruelty for him to hunt those dogs down and put them out of everyone's misery? No.



The problem is not the dogs, its their pack "leaders", the humans.
They should never be allowed to own any animals, but should have all of "their" dogs taken away and likely, put under..
Vigilantism is tempting and maybe the only answer if the state/local government is not willing to do anything. And its these low-life dog owners who make things bad, and expensive for responsible animals owners.
 

earthworm

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
5,728
Reaction score
904
Location
Goldsboro,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
....what if we just shoot them dead? No suffering or anything like that, clean and easy. Is it animal abuse?
Of course not, there are places where there are too many animals, and the heads/flocks must be culled; its our responsibility.
Peta can go to hell.
 

hiswoman

Traditional
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
3,049
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Cypress, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
The problem is not the dogs, its their pack "leaders", the humans.
They should never be allowed to own any animals, but should have all of "their" dogs taken away and likely, put under..
Vigilantism is tempting and maybe the only answer if the state/local government is not willing to do anything. And its these low-life dog owners who make things bad, and expensive for responsible animals owners.

I know and I agree that the owners should never be allowed to have another animal and should be held accountable for what happened to that poor wallaby. The dogs will certainly need to be put down if they can catch them. They are obviously a danger to any living creature smaller and weaker than themselves. Next time it might be a defenseless child they decide to maul.
 

earthworm

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
5,728
Reaction score
904
Location
Goldsboro,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I know and I agree that the owners should never be allowed to have another animal and should be held accountable for what happened to that poor wallaby. The dogs will certainly need to be put down if they can catch them. They are obviously a danger to any living creature smaller and weaker than themselves. Next time it might be a defenseless child they decide to maul.
This may have happened already, I have heard of very similar things.
Many if not all states are doing something about this, which costs money, increases taxes and makes government bigger, exactly what the tea baggers do not want.
I wonder if they ever think of these things at their protests and rallies?
 

hiswoman

Traditional
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
3,049
Reaction score
1,486
Location
Cypress, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
This may have happened already, I have heard of very similar things.
Many if not all states are doing something about this, which costs money, increases taxes and makes government bigger, exactly what the tea baggers do not want.
I wonder if they ever think of these things at their protests and rallies?


Small government is not synonymous with no government and most people realize that some government intervention is necessary, even those belonging to the Tea Party Movement.

Regardless, I hope they do catch and put down those dogs before it's too late for another small animal or child.

 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,913
Reaction score
11,282
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Do you think there should be exceptions - if there aren't already - in animal cruelty laws for what could be considered self defense?

For example, if you are in some public place that is frequented by Canada geese and somebody there finds himself being chased/pecked at/etc by one, despite knowing he isn't anywhere near a nest, and decides to kick the goose (injuring it or inadvertently killing it) and escaping (as in not sticking around to kick, stomp, or further deface the body of the goose) to get help. Would that be considered self defense to you?

At the college I go to, we have a huge goose problem - Canada geese that didn't migrate this year. They are everywhere - literally hundreds of them eating, honking, and sh*tting. Now mating season has come, and they are getting aggressive. I mapped out where the nests are - aside from one or two right now, I know most of them are on roofs away from the public.

Even still, issues arise - one guy was cut up pretty badly a few weeks ago by an aggressive goose, and I've had geese following me, hissing and honking madly in front of buildings where the nests were on the roof, not at ground level, and it is such where I am beginning to consider the circumstances of being cornered, or in any other situation where force is necessary to get out of it, what to do, consequences, etc, and am confused / unsure about it all, especially seeing videos of goose attacks online.

I think if you take out one of those ****ing geese, you should be given a medal for doing a public service. They are some of the nastiest and most aggressive creatures you'll ever encounter. On a scale of rabbit to grizzly bear, they fall somewhere between rabid raccoon and badger with young.
 

Travelsonic

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
1,388
Reaction score
327
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Resurrecting this thread - it is that time of year again.

The other day I was trying to get in to one of the buildings on campus, a goose chased, flew at me. The nest was nowhere near the building entrance [even on the roof maybe]. Next time, I'm carrying a baseball bat or something, **** campus seucirty - and the school - they don't do a damn thing to protect us.
 
Top Bottom