Schools arrange secret abortions

[CaptainCourtesy]

But from the school counselors stand point, you aren't in the picture, that is typically what the parent does.

Not sure what you mean, here.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

yes, captain, i understand that. They are not children, though. They undergo a substantial brain connectivity growth between the age of 18 and 21, development that pertains specifically to 'judgement'. even so, the difference between an 18 year old brain and a 15 year old brain is not great, and yet we are willing to put "adulthood" on 18 year olds as though that were somehow a magic age.

that, though, is not the point i am trying to make. again, i am not advocating turning teenagers out. The point is we tend to want to treat them as intellectually mature and sexually immature when that is exactly the opposite of the truth. we begin preparing them for the rigors of college in middleschool and insist that they are NOT sexual creatures for years after their own biology confirms to them quite the opposite.

why does it surprise us that they resist taking on the intellectual role of adults while demanding sexual autonomy?

geo.

OK. Well, I kind of look at this as a three tiered issue: sexual maturity/intellectual maturity/emotional maturity. The first two are entirely reliant on the third. Without that component, the first two are not really relevant.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Not sure what you mean, here.

I mean in reference to the OP.

The school counselor can help the student get an abortion, regardless of the reasons of the students pregnancy.
They don't have to inform the parent.

That could allow the hiding of other mental/abuse issues related to the sexual promiscuity.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I mean in reference to the OP.

The school counselor can help the student get an abortion, regardless of the reasons of the students pregnancy.
They don't have to inform the parent.

That could allow the hiding of other mental/abuse issues related to the sexual promiscuity.

It would behoove the school counselor to ask about these issues. If I have a client that is sexually active or becomes pregnant, I always ask. School counselors are often not trained in how to manage these kinds of situations and, since they are not doing ongoing therapy, would probably have little idea about whether these thigns were occurring or not.

 

[croniccynic]

The thing with age of consent laws is that you don't have the legal authority to be notified of this type of action.

After reading the entire thread, including sociological, biological, confidentiality and emotional opinions, I'm going to agree with the law.

Which makes me wonder how many posters screaming 'they can't do that with my kid' whine about immigration law not being 'fully enforced'?

 

[Bodi]

In my state, if I have a client who tells me that they are pregnant and is going to have an abortion, I am not obligated to reveal this information to her parents, breaching confidentiality. It would be considered unethical for me to reveal this information without the client's permission.

This can't be true of minors though...

 

[Geo Patric]

OK. Well, I kind of look at this as a three tiered issue: sexual maturity/intellectual maturity/emotional maturity. The first two are entirely reliant on the third. Without that component, the first two are not really relevant.

well, at least in terms of this discussion, i am going to have to defer to your personal expertise in the matter.

but ONLY in terms of this disccussion. i STILL think we have a serious social problem in regards our perception of young adults.

geo.

 

[Alyssa]

I had a great relationship with my dad, but when I messed up he was the last person I wanted to tell. I never doubted my dad's love and support, but that didn't mean that as a teenager I wanted to confess all of my transgressions. My younger self felt like I would disappoint him far too much if he knew and I couldn't bear it.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge the relationship with the parents. It could most often simply be a fear of hurting/disappointing them that stops a teen from going to the parent when a mistake has been made.

That is understandable. And yet parents with a truly open relationship with their children need to let them know that support is always forthcoming regardless of their mistakes. Also, a completely open and honest discussion about sex should be taking place. Many parents feel too awkward to have a conversation about sex with their kids. That's too bad, really, since kids get their information from the media and their friends.

 

[Jerry]

Yes, I do pratice in a professional/responsible/ethical manner. However, what a parent needs to know is situational and not always cut and dry.

For example, if I have a client that has indicated serious suicidality, I tell their parents, whether they consent or not. If they tell me that they are self-injuring, I do not... though I usually encourage them to do so themselves. However, if they do not want their parents to know, I say nothing. I treat them for the disorder and monitor. If the severity rises above a certain level, I will "encourage" them very strongly.

The same goes for many situations, teen sexual activity, substance use, pregnancy, legal issues. Things are situational and a lot of factors go into the determination. Legally/ethically, I am only obligated to report abuse or sucidality/homocidality with intent.

That's all well and good, and I accept it, but let me say this: If a counselor helped my child get an abortion without either parent's knowledge, and one of the complications common on my wife's side presented itself, and my child died as a result, that counselor will not live to see the lawsuit I bring against her estate from prison. Working in a gun-free zone would not protect her. I will plead 'no contest' and go to prison for stopping any such child-predator from harming another child. These people are monsters no different then pedophiles, and like pedophiles have a seat reserved in my incinerator.

Short of that, I will contact the militant liberal right, and that entire family will be harassed and smeared everywhere they go. They will have to change their identities and move far away to find peace.

My wife, or soon-to-be X, would just show up at the school with a bat. Not my style but that's what she would do.

Thank God I have boys.


***
If my daughter had a successful abortion in secret, and I later found out, I would simply elevate her lifestyle to match the independent adult she wants to behave as.

 

[Jerry]

The above post is not a threat. Everyone has a line, I'm just saying where I drew mine. What I said is a simple matter of fact. Similarly, if my unit establishes a perimeter, and you run out of a known IED factory, as soon as you cross the perimeter, I will kill you. Same mindset. I will trust you to care for my child's needs in many respects, without my knowledge, but if you cross the line and violate that trust, don't think you're off the hook.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

This can't be true of minors though...

Yup. True of minors.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

That's all well and good, and I accept it, but let me say this: If a counselor helped my child get an abortion without either parent's knowledge, and one of the complications common on my wife's side presented itself, and my child died as a result, that counselor will not live to see the lawsuit I bring against her estate from prison. Working in a gun-free zone would not protect her. I will plead 'no contest' and go to prison for stopping any such child-predator from harming another child. These people are monsters no different then pedophiles, and like pedophiles have a seat reserved in my incinerator.

Short of that, I will contact the militant liberal right, and that entire family will be harassed and smeared everywhere they go. They will have to change their identities and move far away to find peace.

My wife, or soon-to-be X, would just show up at the school with a bat. Not my style but that's what she would do.

Thank God I have boys.


***
If my daughter had a successful abortion in secret, and I later found out, I would simply elevate her lifestyle to match the independent adult she wants to behave as.

There is a difference between helping someone get an abortion and keeping a client's confidentiality in that circumstances, even from the individual's parents. The former is not acceptable and, IMO, goes well beyond the ethics and boundaries of a therapuetic relationship. I have no issue with the latter. I have been in that situation several times and always push the client to discuss the issue with their parents.

 

[tessaesque]

I call MAJOR bull**** on your first bolded statement.

As for the second bolded statement, whose job is it to decide that a parent is a miserable failure? A school counselor or social worker is generally the first person to judge that.

School counsellors are not trained to handle child abuse investigations. Their only roll in most instances is to report what they are told or what they observe to the authorities designated to do such investigations. School counsellors very rarely receive any psychology training or therapy training and are not employed or expected to be utilized in such a way as to guide an impressionable 16 year old through the abortion process.

From first hand experience, an abortion can and probably will mentally destroy you immediately afterwards. I was 23 when I had one, well beyong the age of consent and a ways into my adult life and I can tell you that with all the support I had from my family, and all of the facts that made it abundantly clear that it was the best choice I could be making I was still an absolute wreck for quite some time afterwards.

At 16 I don't think I could have recovered from it....especially if I were relying on poorly training, unrelated school counsellors who deal with hundreds of other kids everyday. Who aren't qualified or trained to handle the emotional reprecussions a teen will deal with after having an abortion.

All of that not withstanding, however, we still have the issue over medical consent. As a teen I couldn't get my eyes examined, a vaccination booster, a teeth cleaning, or any other simple, non-invasive procedure done without my parents tagging along and signing the consent form. The idea that an invasive procedure like an abortion (which was quite painful, even with the numbing drugs) can be performed with no such consent, all because of some "woman's rights/reproductive rights" issues means to me that we've taken it too far. Think back to you at 16. I was always older than my years, but I damn sure wasn't equipped for those decisions and responsibilities at that age. Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean it's right, or that I would accept it as a parent.

Again, if there is a rare instance in which the parents will not consent, or the parent is abusive in some way lending to the pregnancy then there are already legal courses in place for these young girls. We don't need to authorize ill equipped personnell to provide biased advice and instruction to our children to "protect" them. I would argue that these actions do nothing of the kind.

 

[Barbbtx]

Should a parent know everything that goes on between a counselor and the child? Should confidentiality/privacy not apply at all?

If there is some line, where is it?

The school would be sued if they arranged for a student to get an ear piercing to fit in with the other students. They have no right to arrange for abortions without parents permission. It's not governments job to raise our children. They are the responsibility of the parents until they turn 18.
Many parents would want their daughter to have the child even if they had to raise it as their own. If I had a daughter who had an abortion behind my back, I'm not sure I'd ever forgive her, or those who helped her. Many people are pro-life and consider abortion to be murder.

 

[liblady]

If this situation happened with my daughter she could find herself a new family - I'm supportive and tolerant but won't tolerate dangerous secrets.

supportive and tolerant? find a new family? aunt, i don't believe you.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

supportive and tolerant? find a new family? aunt, i don't believe you.

Yeah, you're right - I'd just be emotionally crushed if my kids didn't involve me in their health and relationship issues. . . but I'd get over it and still love them.

 

[shintao]

School counsellors are not trained to handle child abuse investigations. Their only roll in most instances is to report what they are told or what they observe to the authorities designated to do such investigations. School counsellors very rarely receive any psychology training or therapy training and are not employed or expected to be utilized in such a way as to guide an impressionable 16 year old through the abortion process.

So you are saying the cons have reduced budgets so far, that schools can't afford professional counselors for the children's safety? That they are just cookie moms running on fuzzy math & a tennis club? Well Bush did say about the no children left behind, that a "C" grade was good enough. Do you agree with budgets cuts & Bush's educational hypothesis?

 

[tessaesque]

So you are saying the cons have reduced budgets so far, that schools can't afford professional counselors for the children's safety? That they are just cookie moms running on fuzzy math & a tennis club? Well Bush did say about the no children left behind, that a "C" grade was good enough. Do you agree with budgets cuts & Bush's educational hypothesis?

No, I'm saying that the type of people schools elect to hire for counselling positions aren't the type that are trained. Further, most schools don't view counsellors as therapists, or those designed to provide mental support to children. Counsellors are assigned to place children in classes, to faciliate class schedules, to handle the academic record of a selection of students (usually done alphabetically), and to provide information on available scholarships, schools to apply to, etc. They aren't employed to be therapists. Most school districts provide one or two "trained" therapists for the entire district.

As far as the "cons reducing the budget" I would advise to you to pull the budget for your local ISD and then pour over it with a fine-toothed comb. This idea that the money isn't enough is ridiculous. There's plenty of money, it's just being managed poorly.

 

[jamesrage]

As a parent I find this really troublesome...how dare they put my daughter through an abortion without mine and her mothers knowledge or ability to help our daughter emotionally. If they did this to me I would be enraged.

Schools arrange secret abortions | Stuff.co.nz

This is why I like laws that require any medical procedure performed on a minor should require the consent of a parent or guardian. Those school officials should be out of a job and possibly thrown in jail for this kind of nonsense.

 

[Bodi]

Yup. True of minors.

I understand the importance of confidentiality with regards to discussion of thoughts, but surely you can't prescribe drugs for a child, or recommend that they go see a doctor that could prescribe drugs for the child, or help them get a medical procedure without parental consent... right?

 

[Alyssa]

If this situation happened with my daughter she could find herself a new family - I'm supportive and tolerant but won't tolerate dangerous secrets.

Jesus... how sad.

 

[Geo Patric]

Jesus... how sad.

she spoke in haste and emended that comment. you should repect that.

geo.

 

[BDBoop]

It's like getting slapped, hard. First you react, then you think.

 

[tessaesque]

It's like getting slapped, hard. First you react, then you think.

My friend "mock slapped" me once...all the motion, little actually force behind it, but her intent was to respond to an offense. My first and immediate reaction was "eff you, bitch". Definitely didn't make the situation any better...

 

[Aunt Spiker]

LOL - thanks

*shrug* The truth is that no one actually knows how they'd respond - it's easy to think you *would most certainly do ___* - but if the situation actually happened *shrug* Who knows.