Schools arrange secret abortions

[Arcana XV]

I don't agree, though, that if a teen decides to hide something at the guidance of another adult that it is somehow okay because it must mean the parent did something wrong in the process of raising that teen.

Legally she can have sex. You can't give them half a freedom. It would be as silly as Switzerland's drinking laws. You can have beer and wine at 16, but not gin or vodka. Kind of silly if you ask me. If they're old enough to have sex in the eyes of the law, they're old enough to deal with the consequences. :shrug:

 

[lpast]

I tend to go by age of consent laws. Old enough to have sex, old enough to make decisions about the consequences without parental involvement. New Zealand's age of consent is 16. I have no problem with the OP at all, other than the fact that the girl felt she couldn't confide in at least one of her parents.

Arcana I have 5 daughters all grown and have families of their own...One of my daughters got pregnant underage, she didnt want to tell me...because she knew it would hurt me, not that she was afraid. My 4 other daughters came to me and told me.
I went to her and sat on the side of her bed and asked her, what do you want to do. She said I dont know, I said well talk it out with your mother and sisters and let me know ok..and if you need anything you know im always here...
She kept the baby and my grandaughter is now 22 and a gorgeous intelligent and as wonderful a young woman as you could ever want to meet... the school DOES not have the right to lead my daughter to an abortion without my knowledge.
Can you even imagine the lawsuits they open themselves up for. What if a young girl decides to tell her parents the school "TALKED" her into an abortion she didnt want to have, what happens god forbid if the child has serious complications or dies during the abortion...nothing could convince me that schools have the right do what this one did

 

[xpiher]

Why blame the parents? If a minor is having unprotected sex and gets pregnant then that is a dysfunctional way of life. A counselor has absolutely no right to allow a girl to have an abortion while keeping her legal guardians in the dark. If abortion is a "medical procedure" then why should it be allowed to break the rules regarding medical procedures? What I fear is that they want to prevent parents from saying no to a teenage girls request for an abortion and they don't want the parents/guardians to have any say in the matter.

They actually do have the legal right in some states if the girl is of the age of consent. In some states, thats as young as 14.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

As a parent I find this really troublesome...how dare they put my daughter through an abortion without mine and her mothers knowledge or ability to help our daughter emotionally. If they did this to me I would be enraged.

Schools arrange secret abortions | Stuff.co.nz

That's pretty crummy, superseding the guardian relationship for teenage immaturity.

 

[Arcana XV]

Arcana I have 5 daughters all grown and have families of their own...One of my daughters got pregnant underage, she didnt want to tell me...because she knew it would hurt me, not that she was afraid. My 4 other daughters came to me and told me.
I went to her and sat on the side of her bed and asked her, what do you want to do. She said I dont know, I said well talk it out with your mother and sisters and let me know ok..and if you need anything you know im always here...
She kept the baby and my grandaughter is now 22 and a gorgeous intelligent and as wonderful a young woman as you could ever want to meet... the school DOES not have the right to lead my daughter to an abortion without my knowledge.
Can you even imagine the lawsuits they open themselves up for. What if a young girl decides to tell her parents the school "TALKED" her into an abortion she didnt want to have, what happens god forbid if the child has serious complications or dies during the abortion...nothing could convince me that schools have the right do what this one did

Sweet story. You're a good dad. And I'm sure your daughter would have told your wife eventually, even she didn't want to hurt you.

The thing about the OP is that if you remove the confidentiality factor, kids who feel they can't talk to their parents won't have anywhere else to go. Then you get horror stories of teens who hide their pregnancy and end up throwing their newborns in a trash can. I think the school has the right idea and as long as the girl is 16 and over, I don't think it should be mandatory to tell the parents if she doesn't want them to know. Any decent counselor will try to get a minor's parents involved, but sometimes it's just not an option. Every case is different. The option to keep parents out of the situation needs to be there. If only to be able to deal with the rare cases of incest and other more common forms of child abuse. Sometimes the parent really is the enemy.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

The thing about the OP is that if you remove the confidentiality factor, kids who feel they can't talk to their parents won't have anywhere else to go. Then you get horror stories of teens who hide their pregnancy and end up throwing their newborns in a trash can. I think the school has the right idea and as long as the girl is 16 and over, I don't think it should be mandatory to tell the parents if she doesn't want them to know. Any decent counselor will try to get a minor's parents involved, but sometimes it's just not an option. Every case is different. The option to keep parents out of the situation needs to be there. If only to be able to deal with the rare cases of incest and other more common forms of child abuse. Sometimes the parent really is the enemy.

That's not a common occurrence, neither the incest or the trash can baby.
It is not a justification for superseding the responsibility of the guardian.

What happens if the child gets an infection from the DNC and doesn't tell anyone?
You can't require an adult to be responsible for a minor and then carve out little exceptions, when they still have the after effects being the responsibility of the guardian still.

Just a whirl wind of unethical nonsense.

 

[xpiher]

Harry, do you agree with age of consent laws?

 

[MaggieD]

As a parent I find this really troublesome...how dare they put my daughter through an abortion without mine and her mothers knowledge or ability to help our daughter emotionally. If they did this to me I would be enraged.

Schools arrange secret abortions | Stuff.co.nz

I've got a real problem with that. The job of a counsellor is not to help a 16-year-old get an abortion. If I were the parent of a girl who'd been taken for exams and an abortion appointment, I would be suing the counsellor and the school district. This is outrageous, in my opinion. Absolutely outrageous.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Harry, do you agree with age of consent laws?

Yes and no.

I know that young people will have sex regardless, but I still think that the guardian should be able to supersede any sexual want of the child.

I was a teenage father, I'm still with the woman I impregnated when I was a teenager, but that isn't a common occurrence.

 

[lpast]

Sweet story. You're a good dad. And I'm sure your daughter would have told your wife eventually, even she didn't want to hurt you.

The thing about the OP is that if you remove the confidentiality factor, kids who feel they can't talk to their parents won't have anywhere else to go. Then you get horror stories of teens who hide their pregnancy and end up throwing their newborns in a trash can. I think the school has the right idea and as long as the girl is 16 and over, I don't think it should be mandatory to tell the parents if she doesn't want them to know. Any decent counselor will try to get a minor's parents involved, but sometimes it's just not an option. Every case is different. The option to keep parents out of the situation needs to be there. If only to be able to deal with the rare cases of incest and other more common forms of child abuse. Sometimes the parent really is the enemy.

I cant say that your wrong arcana because you are not...but what your suggesting is that the majority of good parents have to be subjected to secret abortions carried out by strangers and non blood relatives in a school without their knowledge because theres some bad parents...I disagree. There are agencies and other means to address the Few bad parents and the majority of good parents should be allowed to do their job the way they see fit.

 

[MaggieD]

Sweet story. You're a good dad. And I'm sure your daughter would have told your wife eventually, even she didn't want to hurt you.

The thing about the OP is that if you remove the confidentiality factor, kids who feel they can't talk to their parents won't have anywhere else to go. Then you get horror stories of teens who hide their pregnancy and end up throwing their newborns in a trash can. I think the school has the right idea and as long as the girl is 16 and over, I don't think it should be mandatory to tell the parents if she doesn't want them to know. Any decent counselor will try to get a minor's parents involved, but sometimes it's just not an option. Every case is different. The option to keep parents out of the situation needs to be there. If only to be able to deal with the rare cases of incest and other more common forms of child abuse. Sometimes the parent really is the enemy.

Any counsellor worth their salt can convince a 16-year-old to tell a trusted adult in her family. The parent is NEVER the enemy. Oh, yeah, come on...somebody say, some are. But that's NOT for a counsellor to decide. 16-year-olds aren't even fully cooked. To come to a counsellor for help -- and have that help be a visit to the abortion clinnic -- is absolutely positively without doubt outrageous.

 

[molten_dragon]

A counselor has absolutely no right to allow a girl to have an abortion while keeping her legal guardians in the dark.

If it is legal for someone underage to get an abortion without their parents' knowledge or permission, then why should a counselor not have the right to help them? It seems like you're blaming the counselor for something that they had the legal right to do.

Personally, I'm torn on the issue. I agree that parents should have a say in medical procedures performed on their children, but I also don't think a parent has the right to decide whether or not their daughter will be a parent, when she is the one that's going to have to raise the kid. Maybe if the kid is under the age of consent, then at bare minimum the parents have to be informed. They may not be allowed to make the decision for the kid, but they have to know about it.

 

[xpiher]

I've got a real problem with that. The job of a counsellor is not to help a 16-year-old get an abortion. If I were the parent of a girl who'd been taken for exams and an abortion appointment, I would be suing the counsellor and the school district. This is outrageous, in my opinion. Absolutely outrageous.

If the girl is of the age of consent then the counselor has the go ahead by law.

 

[Geo Patric]

if a woman is biologically mature enough to become pregnant is intellectually/psychologically/emotionally mature enough to decide what to do about it... we have a very serious social problem.

we have a very serious social problem... we insist on keeping women as little girls. if she can concieve, she is NOT really a little girl, ya know.

geo.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

if a woman is biologically mature enough to become pregnant is intellectually/psychologically/emotionally mature enough to decide what to do about it... we have a very serious social problem.

we have a very serious social problem... we insist on keeping women as little girls. if she can concieve, she is NOT really a little girl, ya know.

geo.

Sexual procreative maturity ≠ mental maturity

 

[MaggieD]

If the girl is of the age of consent then the counselor has the go ahead by law.

The girl herself may have "consent," but I'll be damned if the counsellor ought to be able to assist. Absolutely outrageous. If the law allows this, if I a girl in school, I would fill out whatever legal notification the law needed to absolutely forbid something like this from happening just as a matter of course. This is sooooo wrong.

 

[Geo Patric]

Sexual procreative maturity ≠ mental maturity

whaddya mean by "mental maturity". we consider every other creature on the planet to be adult when it can reproduce. how are we any different?

geo.

 

[xpiher]

The girl herself may have "consent," but I'll be damned if the counsellor ought to be able to assist. Absolutely outrageous. If the law allows this, if I a girl in school, I would fill out whatever legal notification the law needed to absolutely forbid something like this from happening just as a matter of course. This is sooooo wrong.

The thing with age of consent laws is that you don't have the legal authority to be notified of this type of action.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

whaddya mean by "mental maturity". we consider every other creature on the planet to be adult when it can reproduce. how are we any different?

geo.

Just because something can reproduce doesn't mean that the brain has fully developed to measure consequences from the decision making process (aka, maturity).

Animals don't typically have societies built on money, housing, forward looking health benefits, etc.
They live primarily on instinct and if you wish all of us to do the same, then fine but you won't like the outcome of such a situation.

Humans have long childhoods, past the point of procreation ability.

 

[Bodi]

I don't expect her to tell me everything. I don't know where you got such a silly idea. Why in the world would she share every single detail of her life with me? That would be creepy beyond belief. What I do know for a fact, and from experience, is that I'm the one she'll always call when she needs help about something really serious.

Oh, and I am an above average, truly awesome mother. I make no apologies about this fact.

Everything meaning that any time that they had a problem that they might come to you for help instead of being nervous and not... she may or she may not, you don't know what will happen in the future of if she has not come to you about things in the past. She has her own life and unless you monitor her 24/7 such a blanket statement, while at the same time degrading others about their parenting, only indicates that you have less of a clue than you think.

I am a terrific father and would put my parenting and how I affected the turnout of my daughters against any other parent, yet I am also realistic enough to know that they have more influence over their life that the parents do.

 

[Barbbtx]

Why blame the parents? If a minor is having unprotected sex and gets pregnant then that is a dysfunctional way of life. A counselor has absolutely no right to allow a girl to have an abortion while keeping her legal guardians in the dark. If abortion is a "medical procedure" then why should it be allowed to break the rules regarding medical procedures? What I fear is that they want to prevent parents from saying no to a teenage girls request for an abortion and they don't want the parents/guardians to have any say in the matter.

Seattle school provides abortion for student without notifying parents « Hot Air

The video report mentions that the mother is pro-choice, not pro-life, which makes the story even stranger. I’d question how they got a 15-year-old pro-life advocate to agree to the abortion, except I have a pretty damned good idea, having lived through a not-dissimilar situation with my daughter-in-law and son during their senior year. I’d bet dollars to donuts that they pressured a frightened and confused adolescent into that decision just when she needed her parents most.
At the end, the clinic’s management tries to use the excuse that they can’t list every ailment on a consent form. However, if they’re going to procure abortions for 15-year-olds, then perhaps they can mention those. That falls pretty far outside the realm of scraped knees, broken fingers, and headaches, after all.

 

[Bodi]

whaddya mean by "mental maturity". we consider every other creature on the planet to be adult when it can reproduce. how are we any different?

geo.

The brain continues to develop until kids are 18 at the least, and even past that. That is one of the reasons that kids are kids until 18, because the logic part of the brain is not fully developed until about that time, so they are not mentally mature. Anybody who has watched 16 year old boys drive can attest to that.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

The brain continues to develop until kids are 18 at the least, and even past that. That is one of the reasons that kids are kids until 18, because the logic part of the brain is not fully developed until about that time, so they are not mentally mature. Anybody who has watched 16 year old boys drive can attest to that.

Just to add and if I remember correctly, the brain doesn't stop developing until around the age of 25.
Mostly the regions that control fear.

 

[Bodi]

The girl herself may have "consent," but I'll be damned if the counsellor ought to be able to assist. Absolutely outrageous. If the law allows this, if I a girl in school, I would fill out whatever legal notification the law needed to absolutely forbid something like this from happening just as a matter of course. This is sooooo wrong.

As would I. The whole notion of a child being allowed something like this behind a parents back is more a threat to our freedoms than the Patriot Act ever was... yet so many people have no problem with a counselor influencing a child and legally being allowed to do this... truly scary. What's next?

 

[Bodi]

Just to add and if I remember correctly, the brain doesn't stop developing until around the age of 25.
Mostly the regions that control fear.

I was going to add that (minus the fear part), but thought that the logic part more apt. Thanks though...