It's worth noting at this point that the Fed Gov has recently tried to claim that the continental US constitutes a battlefield for legal purposes--they can follow the rules for battlefield situations here in the domestic US--because the War on Terror can be fought anywhere.Paul's is a valid question and it's why we need people like Paul to ask them. Jasonxe posts exactly why it's a valid question. It's not as simple as "you can't kill an American citizen" without a trial but the facts are, the government knew they were going to target him so they could have held a trial. He doesn't have to be present for a trial to be held.
I'll grant that this isn't all black and white that there are other considerations but all the same, it certainly should give everyone pause that the government can just kill an American citizen based only on the idea that he was involved in something. If they believe he was a threat to the U.S., I would even consider the idea of a military trial as being valid.
This is a different arguement than what would have applied to OBL. He did not have Constitutional Rights.
yes, if you betray our country and join our enemies in foreign lands and participate in the planning & carrying-out of terrorist attacks against our civilian population, the rules may be adjusted just for you.
a minor technicalityTHIS is the reason that Ron Paul could never be POTUS. Dr. Paul fails to realize that there are times when the best interests of the nation have to be put above some ridiculous bit of technicality.
Am I still not a U.S Citizen? What proof do you have of me commiting these charges? Am I to die without a hearing?
FACT: one loses his citizenship when he knowingly & willfully enlists in the armed forces of another country, let alone the armed forces of an enemy nation or a terrorist organization who has sworn to kill American citizens.
doubt me? read your passport.
United States Code: Title 8,1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions | LII / Legal Information Institute
THE GUY IS A US CITIZEN.
and as SUCH he HAS TO BE TRIALED.
(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentmen*t or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensati*on."
As pointed out, Timothy McVeigh was every bit as much of an enemy. We would not accepted the idea of state troopers just shooting him in the head when they captured him.
FACT: one loses his citizenship when he knowingly & willfully enlists in the armed forces of another country, let alone the armed forces of an enemy nation or a terrorist organization who has sworn to kill American citizens.
doubt me? read your passport.
As pointed out, Timothy McVeigh was every bit as much of an enemy. We would not accepted the idea of state troopers just shooting him in the head when they captured him.
FACT: one loses his citizenship when he knowingly & willfully enlists in the armed forces of another country, let alone the armed forces of an enemy nation or a terrorist organization who has sworn to kill American citizens.
doubt me? read your passport.
US passport, page 4, section 8:
Loss of U.S. Citizenship: Under certain circumstances, you may lose your U.S. citizenship by performing, voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship, any of the following acts: 1) being naturalized in a foreign state; 2) raking an oath or making a declaration to a foreign state; 3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state.
I think we can logically argue that joining Al Qaeda and taking part in the planning and implementation of terrorist attacks against the American citizen population, counts as an intention of relinquishing one's U.S. citizenship.
The issue I take with the situation is that there doesn't seem to be any oversight or checks in place for whom the US military and intelligence agencies decide is "an enemy." If they call you an enemy combatant, you no longer have any rights. No due process. No trial of your peers. Just a bullet to your head, or even a predator drone while you sleep. It doesn't matter whether you're a US citizen or not, guilty or not. You're on a death list and there's nobody there to make sure the government has sufficient evidence to justify that.
Through AQAP’s website, al-Awlaki helped inspire U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Hasan to kill 13 people and wound 29 at Ft. Hood, Texas on November 5, 2009, U.S. counter-terrorism officials said. He also encouraged Nigerian-born Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to try to blow up a Northwest Airlines plane on Christmas Day 2009 with explosives hidden in his underwear, they said. Earlier that year, they said, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammed, who had converted to Islam, changed his name from Carlos Leon Bledsoe and mounted a drive-by shooting at a military recruiting office in Little Rock, Arkansas that killed one soldier and wounded another, said he’d been dispatched by AQAP.
FACT: one loses his citizenship when he knowingly & willfully enlists in the armed forces of another country, let alone the armed forces of an enemy nation or a terrorist organization who has sworn to kill American citizens.
doubt me? read your passport.
So, to defend ourselves, we have to have a court decide who the enemy is? Our enemies are entitled to the due process our Constitution provides? No. Why do you assume this jamoke wasn't guilty?
They have emails that verify this information....and proof aplenty on UTube that he was recruiting terrorists to destroy the enemy.
Where the defense of our country is concerned, I'm comfortable leaving those decisions in the hands of our military and our commander-in-chief. We are targetting our enemies and will destroy them. Good luck to us.
I'm glad that some Libertarians on this board are remaining consistent to their ideals even when it's not easy. If you agree in basic Liberties ecspecially the liberties protected by our Constitution you agree with them even when inconvienent. I am by no means a constitutionalists but targeting and killing a US citizen makes me very uncomfortable no matter the circumstances. How many laws are we going to virtually rip up in the "War on Terror"?Seriously does anyone else find it peculiar that you have the conservatives saying they US shouldnt have killed a terrorist and moderates and liberals saying good riddance...LOL....WOW...talk about reversals, flips and high dives....truth is...if anyone else other than a conservative or paul said it...they would be a whimpy lib wussy thats coddling the terrorists blahblahblah..
I thought our enemies weren't a foreign army...they were unlawful combantants therefore not subject to the Geneva conventions..it's not as much the fact we did this but the fact we allow our leaders to warp our laws and treaties and basically rip and tear up any claim to exceptionalism we have. Maybe some consistency would be nice!
What's your opinion of Obamacare? Just wondering.
Why do you believe he was killed without oversight? I suspect there were lots of lawyers arguing the fine points of killing an American unlawful combatant in this very unusual war. The war against Islamofascism will not look like any of our recent past wars.No, goddamnit, the government should not have the power to assassinate without oversight.
Danger will robinson! Danger!
Thread derailment in progress!
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