Obamascare Fail

[Fletch]

Paying $1000 a year on some BS coverage is about as useless as no insurance.

How do you know? And besides, if I am satisfied with the coverage, what business of it is yours to force me to pay 5 times that amount? Tell you what, if you want me to pay $5000, you pick up the difference. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[KevinKohler]

Hey, so I have a question....how is AHCA going to affect Husky?

 

[Mycroft]

I don't much like ACA either, but it's a hell of a lot better than what the moron GOP put on the table--a big fat nothing. Oh, wait. They did put fear and paranoia out there. I almost forgot.

Actually, Obamacare ISN'T a hell of a lot better than what the GOP put on the table...which wasn't a big, fat nothing. The GOP have some very good ideas that emphasize personal choice and competition instead of government control. The problem...as obviously illustrated by YOUR post...is that, because of media disregard of anything not Obamacare, the GOP has had a hard time getting anyone to listen to their ideas.

Oh...and about that paranoia thing? Woody Allen said it best:

"Paranoia is knowing all the facts."
- Woody Allen

 

[Greenbeard]

Oh...now you want to talk about the affect of Obamacare on corporations?

No, I want to talk about how laughably wrong the predictions of you and your ilk have been.

Rightwing prediction: The CBO is underestimating the costs of the coverage expansion. Covering people will be more expensive than we were told it would.
Reality: The CBO overestimated the costs of the coverage expansion. Covering people has been less expensive than we were told it would.

Rightwing prediction: Exchange premiums could be seeing triple digit increases this year!
Reality: The average premium increase is somewhere between 2.9 and 5.9%, well below pre-ACA trends. Many rating areas are seeing outright decreases.

Rightwing prediction: Health care costs will soar!
Reality: Health care cost growth has reached and stayed at historic lows. Projections of future spending on health economy-wide are now lower than they were before the ACA passed. Total federal health spending obligations are now lower than they were before the ACA started subsidizing new coverage.

Rightwing prediction: The Medicare savings can't be achieved, it's just a trick.
Reality: Medicare spending growth has slowed even more than required by the ACA, making the savings far larger than estimated; per capita Medicare cost growth is now falling.

Rightwing prediction: The ACA will explode the deficit!
Reality: The deficit has shrunk below the average for the last four decades.

Rightwing prediction: The website will never work! No one is paying premiums!
Reality: The website works. The net attrition rate has been less than 9%.

Rightwing prediction: Employers will drop coverage.
Reality: They didn't.

Rightwing prediction: Employer premiums will soar!
Reality: Premium growth in employer-based plans hit a two decade low this year.

Rightwing prediction: There will be no net decrease in the uninsured! The uninsurance rate may even be going up!
Reality: The ranks of the uninsured fell by about 10 million in the first year alone. In other words, about a quarter of the formerly uninsured gained coverage.

Rightwing prediction: The ACA will result in less choice and competition.
Reality: Dozens and dozens of new sellers are entering the exchanges next year and hundreds and hundreds of new plan offerings will be available.

Rightwing prediction: Obamacare will destroy the quality of care!
Reality: Hospitals are getting safer under Obamacare. Health care providers are improving on quality metric after quality metric. Quality scores for Medicare Advantage plans have improved significantly.

I'm sure there are hundreds more, these are just the ones that spring to mind immediately.

 

[Mycroft]

No, I want to talk about how laughably wrong the predictions of you and your ilk have been.

Rightwing prediction: The CBO is underestimating the costs of the coverage expansion. Covering people will be more expensive than we were told it would.
Reality: The CBO overestimated the costs of the coverage expansion. Covering people has been less expensive than we were told it would.

Rightwing prediction: Exchange premiums could be seeing triple digit increases this year!
Reality: The average premium increase is somewhere between 2.9 and 5.9%, well below pre-ACA trends. Many rating areas are seeing outright decreases.

Rightwing prediction: Health care costs will soar!
Reality: Health care cost growth has reached and stayed at historic lows. Projections of future spending on health economy-wide are now lower than they were before the ACA passed. Total federal health spending obligations are now lower than they were before the ACA started subsidizing new coverage.

Rightwing prediction: The Medicare savings can't be achieved, it's just a trick.
Reality: Medicare spending growth has slowed even more than required by the ACA, making the savings far larger than estimated; per capita Medicare cost growth is now falling.

Rightwing prediction: The ACA will explode the deficit!
Reality: The deficit has shrunk below the average for the last four decades.

Rightwing prediction: The website will never work! No one is paying premiums!
Reality: The website works. The net attrition rate has been less than 9%.

Rightwing prediction: Employers will drop coverage.
Reality: They didn't.

Rightwing prediction: Employer premiums will soar!
Reality: Premium growth in employer-based plans hit a two decade low this year.

Rightwing prediction: There will be no net decrease in the uninsured! The uninsurance rate may even be going up!
Reality: The ranks of the uninsured fell by about 10 million in the first year alone. In other words, about a quarter of the formerly uninsured gained coverage.

Rightwing prediction: The ACA will result in less choice and competition.
Reality: Dozens and dozens of new sellers are entering the exchanges next year and hundreds and hundreds of new plan offerings will be available.

Rightwing prediction: Obamacare will destroy the quality of care!
Reality: Hospitals are getting safer under Obamacare. Health care providers are improving on quality metric after quality metric. Quality scores for Medicare Advantage plans have improved significantly.

I'm sure there are hundreds more, these are just the ones that spring to mind immediately.

shrug...

So you are going to repeat the spun drivel that calamity spewed in his OP, eh? Do you think it makes a difference? Heck, the article I linked in my first post in this thread set the record straight on most of that stuff. Don't see much need to address YOUR regurgitation.

 

[Greenbeard]

Heck, the article I linked in my first post in this thread set the record straight on most of that stuff. Don't see much need to address YOUR regurgitation.

I wouldn't want to try and address it either if I were in your shoes.

Because the record is pretty clear at this point: record and still-growing coverage levels (and at lower cost than advertised); unprecedented moderation of health care spending, price growth, and premium increases; and tangible improvements in care quality.

The doomsday predictions should be embarrassing to you at this point.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

My daughters health insurance premium increased by 112%, and she was forced to change doctors. You're dog don't hunt Calam.

My premium went up over 300% and my deductible went up 500%. I dropped out of the private insurance market and went "VA". Calamity is merely on a spin campaign in the lead up to the midterm elections next month.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

I don't much like ACA either, but it's a hell of a lot better than what the moron GOP put on the table--a big fat nothing. Oh, wait. They did put fear and paranoia out there. I almost forgot.

Your party is likely going to be devastated in the midterms next month. Your attempt to spin Obamacare positively is a waste of time. It's not the only thing that is dragging the democrats down. They have Ebola and ISIS going against them as well.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Good of you to decide who's coverage is real and who's is not. But since you are covered by your employer, please come back and tell us all how great Obamacare is once the employer mandate kicks in. You policy/premium probably hasn't changed, but not because obamacare is wonderful, like you claim. Its because Obamacare hasn't been enforced on employers yet.

True...for some strange reason Obama delayed that mandate.

 

[Ockham]

My premium went up over 300% and my deductible went up 500%. I dropped out of the private insurance market and went "VA". Calamity is merely on a spin campaign in the lead up to the midterm elections next month.

Hope the pay is good at least. My premiums went up about 26% but I'm in a relatively hard group plan with over 200K other employees, so it could have been much much worse. What the spin cannot change is that the current administration completely screwed 300 million people's health insurance to cover 8 million people who didn't have it, while there's still another 15+ million who continue to be uninsured. What a great deal for America.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I haven't paid less than $5000 in twenty years. Maybe it was high time you got some real coverage. Eh? :roll:

Do you think that it is reasonable to be required to pay more for medical care insurance than for rent? Some may consider my $300/month mobile home rental to be substandard housing but should that lead to a gov't mandate that I pay more rent for "adequate" housing? I find that mandating spending of $416/month ($5K/year) on medical care insurance "just in case" to be stupid.

 

[sangha]

Do you think that it is reasonable to be required to pay more for medical care insurance than for rent? Some may consider my $300/month mobile home rental to be substandard housing but should that lead to a gov't mandate that I pay more rent for "adequate" housing? I find that mandating spending of $416/month ($5K/year) on medical care insurance "just in case" to be stupid.

Given the way you've described your financial situation, both in this post and others, you should be eligible for subsidies that would make your premium much lower than $416/month. Unless your income is too low to qualify for a subsidy in which case you were screwed by your governor when he decided to not expand Medicaid.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Hope the pay is good at least. My premiums went up about 26% but I'm in a relatively hard group plan with over 200K other employees, so it could have been much much worse. What the spin cannot change is that the current administration completely screwed 300 million people's health insurance to cover 8 million people who didn't have it, while there's still another 15+ million who continue to be uninsured. What a great deal for America.

I think they may suffer remorse after the midterms.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Given the way you've described your financial situation, both in this post and others, you should be eligible for subsidies that would make your premium much lower than $416/month. Unless your income is too low to qualify for a subsidy in which case you were screwed by your governor when he decided to not expand Medicaid.

I am too poor to get a PPACA subsidy and yet not entitled to Medicaid because I lack dependents and am not (yet) disabled. Should I develop a serious medical condition then I would very likely be declared disabled and would fall under Medicaid, even in Texas.

 

[Ockham]

I think they may suffer remorse after the midterms.

May is right - I've seen Republicans shoot themselves in the foot at the finish line too often.

 

[Mycroft]

I wouldn't want to try and address it either if I were in your shoes.

I already addressed it. Why do you want me to repeat myself?

Because the record is pretty clear at this point: record and still-growing coverage levels (and at lower cost than advertised); unprecedented moderation of health care spending, price growth, and premium increases; and tangible improvements in care quality.

The doomsday predictions should be embarrassing to you at this point.

Sorry, but your spin doesn't cut it. The reality is that all of these "improvements" have come at a cost that the American People do NOT want to pay.

The Democrats SHOULD have gotten the message when they got shellacked back in 2010...but they didn't. Somehow, with all the continued spinning going on, I don't think they'll get the message this year either.

Your spin will only go so far. As I said, people poll and people vote based on their personal experience. When your spin contradicts their experiences, people disregard your spin. The Democrats will be punished for the Obamanation they unleashed upon the American People.

 

[sangha]

I am too poor to get a PPACA subsidy and yet not entitled to Medicaid because I lack dependents and am not (yet) disabled. Should I develop a serious medical condition then I would very likely be declared disabled and would fall under Medicaid, even in Texas.

In that case, you qualify for a hardship exemption from the mandate and should probably go without insurance and pay out of pocket for "regular" medical expenses.

Think about it! What are you getting for that $5k/yr?

 

[Greenbeard]

I already addressed it. Why do you want me to repeat myself?

Pointing to poor opinion polling as a response to the empirical observation that the law is cheaper than anticipated, is covering millions, has improved care quality, and is slowing health care cost growth is a non sequitur.

The Democrats SHOULD have gotten the message when they got shellacked back in 2010...but they didn't.

And the GOP should've gotten the message when Barack Obama was re-elected in 2012. But they didn't.

 

[Mycroft]

In that case, you qualify for a hardship exemption from the mandate and should probably go without insurance and pay out of pocket for "regular" medical expenses.

Think about it! What are you getting for that $5k/yr?

Think about it...

The only way to be free from Obamacare is to be sooo poor that Obamacare won't help anyway. THAT is the choice the Democrats have given the American People.

 

[Mycroft]

Pointing to poor opinion polling as a response to the empirical observation that the law is cheaper than anticipated, is covering millions, has improved care quality, and is slowing health care cost growth is a non sequitur.

Oh...I did more than that. The article I linked gave hard facts to refute the rose colored spin y'all are trying to feed us.

And the GOP should've gotten the message when Barack Obama was re-elected in 2012. But they didn't.

The 2012 election had NOTHING to do with Obamacare. Nothing.

From the article I already posted:

The 2012 election provided a brief hiatus from Obamacare. Confronted with a slate of presidential candidates that included only one sitting governor or senator, Republican primary voters reluctantly chose a nominee who, of all the prominent Republicans in the country, was probably the least able or willing to make Obamacare an issue—having himself spearheaded somewhat similar legislation in his own state. Exit polling found the voters opposed to Obamacare, but both candidates’ determination to de-emphasize the issue mitigated its importance in deciding
the outcome.

Too bad you didn't read that article. You would have saved yourself the embarrassment of bringing up the 2012 election.

 

[Greenbeard]

Oh...I did more than that. The article I linked gave hard facts to refute the rose colored spin y'all are trying to feed us.

Really, which of the facts I posted are "refuted"? The numbers are in. Coverage and quality are up, spending growth and Obamacare's price tag are down.

Pretending that isn't so just reveals a certain level of detachment from reality. You're better off hiding behind the opinion polls.

The 2012 election had NOTHING to do with Obamacare. Nothing.

Other than giving the electorate a choice between its namesake and primary champion, and a guy who promised to repeal it, sure.

 

[sangha]

The 2012 election had NOTHING to do with Obamacare. Nothing.

 

[ttwtt78640]

In that case, you qualify for a hardship exemption from the mandate and should probably go without insurance and pay out of pocket for "regular" medical expenses.

Think about it! What are you getting for that $5k/yr?

That is exactly what I intend to do. While insurance would let me pay about 20% more for the same care, a cash (at time of service) discount lets me pay 20% less for the same care.

 

[Mycroft]

shrug...

Sure, they talked about it when they were asked in the debates. Doesn't mean it was a big factor in people's votes.

 

[Mycroft]

Really, which of the facts I posted are "refuted"? The numbers are in. Coverage and quality are up, spending growth and Obamacare's price tag are down.

Pretending that isn't so just reveals a certain level of detachment from reality. You're better off hiding behind the opinion polls.




Other than giving the electorate a choice between its namesake and primary champion, and a guy who promised to repeal it, sure.

The "numbers" you liberals/progressives/Democrats spew is all spin. You really should have read the article.

So, why do Americans reject Obamacare? In large part, it’s because they knew from the start that almost nothing they were being told about it was true. And time has borne out their good instincts.

Obama and his Democratic allies manipulated the Congressional Budget Office scoring process and announced to the American people that Obamacare would cost less than $1 trillion over a decade. At the time the Senate passed the bill, the CBO said Obamacare would cost $871 billion. At the time of the House vote, it said it would cost $938 billion. This February, it said it would cost $2 trillion.

Using that same CBO process, Obama and his Democratic allies told the public that a 2,700-page legislative effort to provide taxpayer-subsidized insurance for tens of millions of uninsured people would—presto!—reduce federal deficits. At the time of the Senate vote, the CBO said Obamacare would reduce deficits by $132 billion. The CBO hasn’t updated that figure since the summer of 2012, but a new analysis by Senate Budget Committee staff, using new CBO projections for things like Obamacare’s effect on labor markets, now finds that Obamacare will increase deficits by $131 billion.

Obama and his Democratic allies told Americans that Obamacare’s subsidies wouldn’t fund abortion. The Government Accountability Office now says that more than 1,000 Obamacare plans cover abortion-on-demand. In five states, every Obamacare plan covers abortion-on-demand.

Obama and his Democratic allies said, “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.” Since then, Obamacare has taken away millions of people’s health plans.

Obama and his Democratic allies said, “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.” But of the millions who lost their plans, many have lost their doctors as well—and Obamacare’s doctor networks are notoriously narrow.

Right before the House vote, the CBO said Obamacare would reduce the number of uninsured people by 19 million as of 2014. The actual number is elusive, but most estimates are in the ballpark of 7 to 11 million net newly insured, meaning Obamacare may not have hit even half its target.

The president said, “I .  .  . have a health care plan that would save the average family $2,500 on their premiums,” and many of his Democratic allies echoed the claim. But even before the Senate voted on Obamacare, the CBO said that, by 2016, premiums for the average family in the individual market would be $2,100—or 16 percent—higher under Obamacare than in the absence of Obamacare. Many Americans are already experiencing such spikes, or worse ones, firsthand.

Obama and his Democratic allies said Obamacare would be good for the economy. But the 62 months since Obama launched the Obamacare debate in earnest (with his speech to the American Medical Association in June 2009) have been the 62 worst months in the past 30 years in terms of the percentage of eligible Americans who are working. That’s according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ own numbers for the employment-population ratio.

And that’s without even mentioning Obamacare’s unprecedented individual mandate—long its most unpopular provision—which compels private American citizens, for the first time in U.S. history, to buy a product or service of the federal government’s choosing. It’s without mentioning the Independent Payment Advisory Board, Obamacare’s unelected, quasi-legislative, largely unaccountable, and blatantly unconstitutional Medicare rationing arm. And it’s without mentioning Obamacare’s $700 billion raid on Medicare, its war on religious charities, or the dangerous presidential lawlessness it has spawned.

What the American people have wanted for more than four years is to repeal Obamacare and replace it with a conservative alternative. That’s what they’ll tell Washington once again this November 4.

Oh...and that's not even addressing the outrageous and unsustainable deductibles people are saddled with in those insurance plans they are required...by law...to buy. Now they have insurance...but can't afford to use it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/unable-to-meet-the-deductible-or-the-doctor.html?src=twr