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Obamascare Fail

May is right - I've seen Republicans shoot themselves in the foot at the finish line too often.

I am not taking anything for granted until after the elections...however my guess is that the republican will take the Senate. The shooting themselves in the foot will come afterwards. They will continue to attempt to distance themselves from the tea party groups and they will continue to be afraid of what the lame stream media thinks about them.
 
How many people are dreading the time to come when the other shoe drops, their employer-based health insurance gets canceled, they will HAVE to get some other insurance coverage that may...or may not (more likely not)...be as good as or as cheap as what they are losing? I'm thinking a whole lot of people.

Those people would have been the icing on the shellacking the Democrats might have in store for themselves...except Obama managed to kick that can down the street.

Mark my words. People poll and people vote based on what is happening to them personally. The bad stuff from Obamacare isn't over by a long shot and the Democrats are going to suffer in the election next month and likely in the election in 2016.

LOL. Its like the OP said.... just wait. NEXT YEAR it will be bad.

Keep the gloom and doom going for another couple years....while the grown ups take care of our health care infrastructure. Then you can get some GOP guy to get into office, make some cosmetic changes and rebrand it "GOPcare", and the right wingers will cheer and pretend it was their idea all along.

See 'civil rights' for a similar scenario.
 
LOL. Its like the OP said.... just wait. NEXT YEAR it will be bad.

Keep the gloom and doom going for another couple years....while the grown ups take care of our health care infrastructure. Then you can get some GOP guy to get into office, make some cosmetic changes and rebrand it "GOPcare", and the right wingers will cheer and pretend it was their idea all along.

See 'civil rights' for a similar scenario.

Ummm...no. It's bad now. It'll be worse next year.
 
Good of you to decide who's coverage is real and who's is not. But since you are covered by your employer, please come back and tell us all how great Obamacare is once the employer mandate kicks in. You policy/premium probably hasn't changed, but not because obamacare is wonderful, like you claim. Its because Obamacare hasn't been enforced on employers yet.
I don't have to. The system decided which coverages were BS. That you don't like it is not my problem.

Suck it up. There're lots of things wingnuts impose on us that I don't like, starting with the Trillion Dollar defense/homeland security/state department budget.
 
Oh...I did more than that. The article I linked gave hard facts to refute the rose colored spin y'all are trying to feed us.



The 2012 election had NOTHING to do with Obamacare. Nothing.

From the article I already posted:



Too bad you didn't read that article. You would have saved yourself the embarrassment of bringing up the 2012 election.

Excellent post showing is that reality is absolutely nothing like what conservatives say it is.
 
I don't have to. The system decided which coverages were BS. That you don't like it is not my problem.

The "system"??? Oh, wait...you mean that OBAMACARE system. The one the Democrats shoved down our throats. Yeah, those Democrats decided...for all of us...what coverages were BS. Even though we didn't agree with them.

Suck it up. There're lots of things wingnuts impose on us that I don't like, starting with the Trillion Dollar defense/homeland security/state department budget.

Ummm...don't look now, but your left-wingnuts helped impose that particular trillion dollar budget you don't like...unlike the multi-trillion dollar budget that the Democrats imposed upon all of us...all by their lonesome.
 
I don't have to. The system decided which coverages were BS. That you don't like it is not my problem.

Suck it up. There're lots of things wingnuts impose on us that I don't like, starting with the Trillion Dollar defense/homeland security/state department budget.

Now you are suggesting that we should all just shut up and accept whatever the system dishes out. How authoritarian.
 
Excellent post showing is that reality is absolutely nothing like what conservatives say it is.

LOL!!

Easy for you to say. Much harder for you to prove...without copious amounts of spin.
 
Ummm...no. It's bad now. It'll be worse next year.

I'm pretty sure the OP showed that it's been pretty good by most measures one would use to judge health care.

So if you are saying it will be going on the same tack, just more of it, I think most of us would be pretty happy with that. Lower costs, more people covered, more incentive to have individuals control their own costs, payment for quality and not quantity..... these things are huge, and making a big difference in quality and access to care. Most importantly, it seems to be fulfilling its primary objective - covering most

Its not perfect, and it could use improvements (which Congress will not allow during this President's term), but its way, way better than any other health care plan that the GOP ever brought up. Oh, wait. They never brought anything up to address the most serious issue for our future. Ever.
 
I'm pretty sure the OP showed that it's been pretty good by most measures one would use to judge health care.

One could only think Obamacare has been pretty good if they've listened to the liberal spin. Those who look at their own wallets tend not to think so.

So if you are saying it will be going on the same tack, just more of it, I think most of us would be pretty happy with that. Lower costs, more people covered, more incentive to have individuals control their own costs, payment for quality and not quantity..... these things are huge, and making a big difference in quality and access to care. Most importantly, it seems to be fulfilling its primary objective - covering most

Its not perfect, and it could use improvements (which Congress will not allow during this President's term), but its way, way better than any other health care plan that the GOP ever brought up. Oh, wait. They never brought anything up to address the most serious issue for our future. Ever.

Obamacare comes nowhere near "covering most"...so that bit of spin dies right there. If people can't afford to buy their health insurance without a subsidy...and then can't afford to use it because of the deductible...the coverage is worthless.

All of the rest of your "good things" come at the cost of people's money, their freedom to choose for themselves and increased and excessive government control. Yeah..."not perfect", by a long shot. In fact, it's not a good thing at all based on the fact that the majority of Americans haven't liked it since before it was shoved down their throats...and they still don't like it.

As far as "improvements" not happening...that remains to be seen. Obama, without the Democratic Senate to run interference for him, will probably be changing his tune. If not, the Democrats will suffer long after he's gone.

Anyway, your denial that the GOP have brought up any alternatives is just that...your denial. Reality doesn't recognize your denial.
 
One could only think Obamacare has been pretty good if they've listened to the liberal spin. Those who look at their own wallets tend not to think so.



Obamacare comes nowhere near "covering most"...so that bit of spin dies right there. If people can't afford to buy their health insurance without a subsidy...and then can't afford to use it because of the deductible...the coverage is worthless.

All of the rest of your "good things" come at the cost of people's money, their freedom to choose for themselves and increased and excessive government control. Yeah..."not perfect", by a long shot. In fact, it's not a good thing at all based on the fact that the majority of Americans haven't liked it since before it was shoved down their throats...and they still don't like it.

As far as "improvements" not happening...that remains to be seen. Obama, without the Democratic Senate to run interference for him, will probably be changing his tune. If not, the Democrats will suffer long after he's gone.

Anyway, your denial that the GOP have brought up any alternatives is just that...your denial. Reality doesn't recognize your denial.

So wait...

What you seem to be saying is that you;re not really covered if you have a subsidy.

I guess that means anyone with employer based insurance (which has sweet tax advantages for companies) has never been covered either.

And there is no doubt that the GOP has brought up a million alternatives. Nothing ever has been voted on. They totally controlled government for years, and controlled at least one house of legislature for most of two decades, and they NEVER made this a priority, even though its pretty clear that Medicare spending is a giant future problem, and loss of coverage for preexisting conditions was an existing massive problem.

The dems got control, and fixed it.
 
So wait...

What you seem to be saying is that you;re not really covered if you have a subsidy.

Oh, come on...surely you can read better than that. I said it is worthless coverage.

I guess that means anyone with employer based insurance (which has sweet tax advantages for companies) has never been covered either.

LOL!!

Early next year the other boot is going to kick those people in the ass. Then they, too, will be left with that worthless Obamacare "coverage".

And there is no doubt that the GOP has brought up a million alternatives. Nothing ever has been voted on. They totally controlled government for years, and controlled at least one house of legislature for most of two decades, and they NEVER made this a priority, even though its pretty clear that Medicare spending is a giant future problem, and loss of coverage for preexisting conditions was an existing massive problem.

The dems got control, and fixed it.

The fact that nothing has ever been voted on doesn't mean the GOP has "never had any ideas"...as you liberals/progressives/Democrats keep saying.

And to say the Democrats "fixed it" is like saying the Soviets "fixed" all the problems that the Russians had. Democrats never learned the lesson...not even after getting shellacked in 2010...that getting control and fixing things...especially when people don't like the "fix"...is not the best thing to do.
 
The "numbers" you liberals/progressives/Democrats spew is all spin. You really should have read the article.

Color me unsurprised that you're unaware that article doesn't refute anything I've posted. Maybe if you were able to articulate some kind of argument, it'd be easier to figure out why you're under the mistaken impression your article addresses any of my points.

I do like the use of "numbers" in quotation marks, though. That about sums you up.

Obama and his Democratic allies manipulated the Congressional Budget Office scoring process and announced to the American people that Obamacare would cost less than $1 trillion over a decade. At the time the Senate passed the bill, the CBO said Obamacare would cost $871 billion. At the time of the House vote, it said it would cost $938 billion. This February, it said it would cost $2 trillion.

In 2010, the CBO projected it would cost $940 billion over the 2010-19 period.

Taking as accurate Bloomberg Government's analysis that the law has cost $73 billion through FY14 and adding on the estimated FY15-19 cost of the coverage expansions from the CBO's latest analysis, $755 billion, we find that the real initial 10-year cost of the law is $828 billion. Or 12% cheaper than advertised.

Which is exactly what I've said multiple times now: the law is turning out to be cheaper than expected. On a year-by-year basis, costs are coming in well below what CBO was saying four years ago. A point the CBO itself has acknowledged multiple times, though I doubt that fact or admission has filtered down into any of the, ah, "news" sources you read.

Using that same CBO process, Obama and his Democratic allies told the public that a 2,700-page legislative effort to provide taxpayer-subsidized insurance for tens of millions of uninsured people would—presto!—reduce federal deficits.

As already mentioned, the deficit has been reduced. Substantially.

The Federal Deficit is Now Smaller than the Average Since the 1980s | WSJ
In fact, adjusted for the size of the economy, today’s deficit is now smaller than the average deficit going back to the 1980s. The 2014 deficit came in at 2.8% according to the CBO estimate, compared to the 3.2% average since 1980. By that measure, President Barack Obama‘s deficit this year is one that would have been acceptable to President Ronald Reagan. During Mr. Reagan’s presidency, the deficit averaged 4% of GDP.

Obama and his Democratic allies told Americans that Obamacare’s subsidies wouldn’t fund abortion. The Government Accountability Office now says that more than 1,000 Obamacare plans cover abortion-on-demand. In five states, every Obamacare plan covers abortion-on-demand.

Obama and his Democratic allies said, “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.” Since then, Obamacare has taken away millions of people’s health plans.

Obama and his Democratic allies said, “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.” But of the millions who lost their plans, many have lost their doctors as well—and Obamacare’s doctor networks are notoriously narrow.

What does any of this have to do with anything I posted?


The president said, “I .  .  . have a health care plan that would save the average family $2,500 on their premiums,” and many of his Democratic allies echoed the claim. But even before the Senate voted on Obamacare, the CBO said that, by 2016, premiums for the average family in the individual market would be $2,100—or 16 percent—higher under Obamacare than in the absence of Obamacare. Many Americans are already experiencing such spikes, or worse ones, firsthand.

Interesting story about those 2009 predictions, and one that goes directly to the point that not only is the law cheaper today than expected back then but so is insurance and health care more generally:

Updated Estimates of the Effects of the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act, April 2014 | CBO
The net downward revision since March 2010 to CBO and JCT’s estimates of the net federal cost of the ACA’s insurance coverage provisions (when measured on a year- by-year basis) is attributable to many factors. . . A notable influence is the substantial downward revision to projected health care costs both for the federal government and for the private sector. For example, since early 2010, CBO and JCT have revised downward their projections of insurance premiums for policies purchased through the exchanges in 2016 by roughly 15 percent, and CBO has revised downward its projection of total Medicaid spending per beneficiary in 2016 by roughly half that percentage.

The CBO overestimated all of those things four years ago.

Mycroft said:
Oh...and that's not even addressing the outrageous and unsustainable deductibles people are saddled with in those insurance plans they are required...by law...to buy. Now they have insurance...but can't afford to use it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/unable-to-meet-the-deductible-or-the-doctor.html?src=twr

You think people shouldn't be allowed to buy high deductible plans and/or HSAs if they want?
 
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Oh, come on...surely you can read better than that. I said it is worthless coverage.



LOL!!

Early next year the other boot is going to kick those people in the ass. Then they, too, will be left with that worthless Obamacare "coverage".



The fact that nothing has ever been voted on doesn't mean the GOP has "never had any ideas"...as you liberals/progressives/Democrats keep saying.

And to say the Democrats "fixed it" is like saying the Soviets "fixed" all the problems that the Russians had. Democrats never learned the lesson...not even after getting shellacked in 2010...that getting control and fixing things...especially when people don't like the "fix"...is not the best thing to do.

So employer paid health insurance will disappear next year?


Where did you get this info?


And never bringing a serious, comprehensive bill up is pretty much not doing anything. And that been happening for decades.
 
So employer paid health insurance will disappear next year?


Where did you get this info?


And never bringing a serious, comprehensive bill up is pretty much not doing anything. And that been happening for decades.

Raising strawmen now, eh? I never said that employer paid health insurance will disappear next year. I have said that employer paid health insurance will take a big hit next year. And I got the information from Greenbeard's link that tries to say it won't happen Obamacare Refutes Warning of Corporate America Cost Surge - Bloomberg which I addressed in an earlier post in this thread.

Oh...and, again, doing nothing is not the same as not having ideas. There are many factors that can affect whether something gets done or not.

I'm sure, by your logic, that you would agree that the Democrats have no ideas on how to get our economy going...simply because they've done nothing in the past 6 years. Right?
 
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Raising strawmen now, eh? I never said that employer paid health insurance will disappear next year. I have said that employer paid health insurance will take a big hit next year. And I got the information from Greenbeard's link that tries to say it won't happen Obamacare Refutes Warning of Corporate America Cost Surge - Bloomberg which I addressed in an earlier post in this thread.

Define 'big hit'. And why.

Not sure if you are aware, but that's not real clear.
 
Define 'big hit'. And why.

Not sure if you are aware, but that's not real clear.

Come on!! Do you REALLY insist that I repeat myself??

Read the thread!
 
Now you are suggesting that we should all just shut up and accept whatever the system dishes out. How authoritarian.

Since you all were proven wrong in that the sky never caved in on us--not to mention that whole George Bush thing you all rammed down the country's throat, even though he won by the slimmest of margins--yes. A little humility from Right Wingers would be in order.
 
Since you all were proven wrong in that the sky never caved in on us--not to mention that whole George Bush thing you all rammed down the country's throat, even though he won by the slimmest of margins--yes. A little humility from Right Wingers would be in order.

GWB was a better POTUS than the current incumbent. Perhaps you should show some of that humility.
 
Since you all were proven wrong in that the sky never caved in on us--not to mention that whole George Bush thing you all rammed down the country's throat, even though he won by the slimmest of margins--yes. A little humility from Right Wingers would be in order.

LOL!!

Typical, calamity. You start a thread...get your ass handed to you...and you start complaining about Bush.
 
Since you all were proven wrong in that the sky never caved in on us--not to mention that whole George Bush thing you all rammed down the country's throat, even though he won by the slimmest of margins--yes. A little humility from Right Wingers would be in order.

Perhaps I could take you a bit more seriously if you were not still whining about the 2000 election...which Bush won...fair and square. As for the sky not falling....it certainly has in certain ways. Thanks to Obamacare, at least half of the nation is now paying more in healthcare premiums then they are mortgage and rent payments.....and with an enormously high deductible. Obamacare ran me out of the private healthcare market.
 
One could only think Obamacare has been pretty good if they've listened to the liberal spin. Those who look at their own wallets tend not to think so.



Obamacare comes nowhere near "covering most"...so that bit of spin dies right there. If people can't afford to buy their health insurance without a subsidy...and then can't afford to use it because of the deductible...the coverage is worthless.

All of the rest of your "good things" come at the cost of people's money, their freedom to choose for themselves and increased and excessive government control. Yeah..."not perfect", by a long shot. In fact, it's not a good thing at all based on the fact that the majority of Americans haven't liked it since before it was shoved down their throats...and they still don't like it.

As far as "improvements" not happening...that remains to be seen. Obama, without the Democratic Senate to run interference for him, will probably be changing his tune. If not, the Democrats will suffer long after he's gone.

Anyway, your denial that the GOP have brought up any alternatives is just that...your denial. Reality doesn't recognize your denial.

Threegoofs, like Calamity, is into nothing more then pre-election spin. They are attempting to get their licks in before their world caves in on election night.
 
Threegoofs, like Calamity, is into nothing more then pre-election spin. They are attempting to get their licks in before their world caves in on election night.

LOL.

The ACA will be unaffected by the 2014 election, that's virtually certain.

The world won't cave in in November, either. All that is guaranteed to happen is more governmental stasis for the next two years.
 
LOL.

The ACA will be unaffected by the 2014 election, that's virtually certain.

The world won't cave in in November, either. All that is guaranteed to happen is more governmental stasis for the next two years.

Oh??

Do you REALLY think Obama is going to buck a Republican controlled Congress? I don't. I think they are going to run roughshod on his ass since he won't have a Democratic Senate to run interference for him.
 
Oh??

Do you REALLY think Obama is going to buck a Republican controlled Congress? I don't. I think they are going to run roughshod on his ass since he won't have a Democratic Senate to run interference for him.

So he'll be vetoing nutty legislation instead of having Harry Reid table it. Big whoop.

I expect another round of self destructive GOP shutdowns, driven by them packing budget bills with nonsense and daring Obama to veto them, and then of course, with another self destructive government shutdown over the debt ceiling, which they know they have to raise but dont have the cojones to do so until disaster is imminent.

In other words, the same stuff, just slightly worse.
 
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