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Naive question: Why is there so much passionate dislike of Obama?

Dav said:
I actually haven't seen even close to the same amount of sheer hatred towards Obama that I saw towards Bush. I mean, not that it doesn't exist, but the same intensity of such hatred just has yet to be so widespread.

I think he's an awful president... but I don't abhor him, or passionately dislike him or anything.
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I think that is simply because more people hated Bush than hate Obama. Still do.
 
Dav said:
Fun game: see how many of these you can find that would be considered racist if said about Obama. Inspired by the last entry, but by no means limited to it.
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I so wish we could go one day without a hysterical "racism" cry from one side or the other. 95 % of both parties are rational people, but there are still far too many on both sides who, since Obama became a serious candidate, have to whip out the race card every chance they get.

Sorry Dav, it's usually not you, and I feel bad singling you out, but this really pisses me off. This has been the year of the race card, used by those of both sides, and is just insane and mindless. It would be nice if we could get through one day without some one whining about racism claims that others are calling us racists. It's all the same ****, and it's mostly bull****.

Are there racists in the Tea party? Yes.
Are there racists in the NAACP? Yes.
Are there racists everywhere? Yes.
Are there people on the left who cry about racism too much? Yes
Are there people on the right who cry about racism too much? Yes
Are there very many of any of these groups? Hell no.

Now let's move on to stuff we can do something about, and crying that people are racist, or people are claiming things are racist, and everything to do with race as a political tool is getting so old it's unreal.

And yes, I do see the irony of crying about people crying about people crying about racism
 
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VanceMack said:
What REALLY makes me laugh are the idiots on the left that worship the guy. After 8 years of hatred towards Bush and the incessant ranting against the evil Patriot Act (has anyone EVER shown who was 'victimized' by the PA???) this guy comes along...DOESNT close GITMO, rescinds his rhetoric and DENIES terrorists their constitutional rights, opens GITMO middle east and does the SAME THINGS THERE, has announced that not only are they a fan of wiretaps but by damn, they have a right to your email, text messages, and cell phone conversations without having to seek legal precedence. THey have slogged along with NO leadership in Afghanistan. Unemployment has CLIMBED. Cities have gotten radically worse. He has added trillions to the debt with no end in sight. He passed a 'health care' plan that before it was even IMPLEMENTED they had to admit they fudged the numbers...and BTW...how is all that health care working for you? Oh yeah...it wont even KICK IN for another few years...because they have to pay it forward. Their leadership in the gulf is a joke (come on...TELL me the left wouldnt have eviscerated Bush if he was president). They stir up race hatred at the drop of a hat out of ****ing political expediency (how can you NOT be dusgusted by that)...

...tell me again why the left supports him? I mean...other than the fact that they are moronic ideologues.
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I am on the left, I know a lot of people on the left, and I don't know a single person who "worships" Obama. Stupid claims like that are just talking points with zero honesty. What is especially funny is your first example is something that many liberals are upset with Obama over. Don't let truth get in the way of your rant though.
 
Redress said:
And yes, I do see the irony of crying about people crying about people crying about racism
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:lol: Fair enough. I won't cry about you crying about me crying about people crying about racism.
 
Redress said:
I am on the left, I know a lot of people on the left, and I don't know a single person who "worships" Obama. Stupid claims like that are just talking points with zero honesty. What is especially funny is your first example is something that many liberals are upset with Obama over. Don't let truth get in the way of your rant though.
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Gosh...lets see how many times here people TRIP over themselves in rushing to defend him (and virtually ANY democrat). And thats just here in our own little happy corner of the Interverse...

And SINCE so many of you are so upset that TOTALLY explains all the protests we are seeing on campus and street corners...right? I know...the obvious outcry is TREMENDOUS!!! :lamo
 
Oh, gotcha! So then, your gang worships Bush? I get it now.

Thanks for the clarification.

VanceMack said:
Gosh...lets see how many times here people TRIP over themselves in rushing to defend him (and virtually ANY democrat). And thats just here in our own little happy corner of the Interverse...

And SINCE so many of you are so upset that TOTALLY explains all the protests we are seeing on campus and street corners...right? I know...the obvious outcry is TREMENDOUS!!! :lamo
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VanceMack said:
Gosh...lets see how many times here people TRIP over themselves in rushing to defend him (and virtually ANY democrat). And thats just here in our own little happy corner of the Interverse...

And SINCE so many of you are so upset that TOTALLY explains all the protests we are seeing on campus and street corners...right? I know...the obvious outcry is TREMENDOUS!!! :lamo
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Why are you capitalizing random words?
 
VanceMack said:
Gosh...lets see how many times here people TRIP over themselves in rushing to defend him (and virtually ANY democrat). And thats just here in our own little happy corner of the Interverse...

And SINCE so many of you are so upset that TOTALLY explains all the protests we are seeing on campus and street corners...right? I know...the obvious outcry is TREMENDOUS!!! :lamo
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People TRIP over themselves TO defend someONE we kinda respect(which IS different than worship) from STUPID attacks. WHEN the far right starts TALKING about death panels IN THE health insurance debate, YEAH, we will attack that stupidity. WHEN you all WHINE about Obama bowing, we will defend him from the STUPID attack.

WHEN oBAMA(see what I did there?) does stuff we like, WE will defend him, when HE does STUFF we don't, we DON'T bother to defend HIM, and will CRITICIZE him. YOU are free to do a search and find me complaining about things Obama and liberals have done. SINCE he is a liberal, us liberals will, generally, agree with him more than not.
 
German guy said:
It's my impression these kinds of hysterics and conspiracy theories are more widespread today on the right, than they used to be on the left under Bush. But I may be wrong.
That's all true, and maybe I just fail to see the opposite point. But many accusations just seem ridiculous to me, and not based in reality. After all, it is not always the case that two sides to a story naturally have the same merit. No, they have so because of their inherent merit. Some accusations against Obama seem so silly and ridiculous to me, that I really don't think they have any merit at all. "Obama hates America!" What kind of an argument is that even supposed to be?
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The hate speech spewed at Bush for 8 years was just as bad, and possibly worse. I heard many of the SAME things said about Bush, by the Left, that I now hear said about Obama, by some on the Right. "He's going to declare martial law, suspend elections and be dictator!" being one common theme.

The difference with Bush is that the media, most of which leans left, hated him for not being a leftist. Obama, being pretty far Left for America, was the media's darling until recently when they began to get disenchanted with him a bit.

The majority of Americans lean quite a bit to the right of Obama, so there is much disagreement with his policies and practices, as Zyphelin said.

Some people take this to a ridiculous extreme, yes... but no more so than the other side did to Dubya Bush previously. Politics in America has simply become more polarized and less polite in the past couple of decades... but frankly it was pretty harsh and hard-ball even back in the 70s and 80s.
 
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Oh yeah, and just FYI: I don't put much stock in what is said by the far-edge extremists of either side.
 
German guy said:
Hello,

when debating with Americans online, I discovered there seems to be a lot of passionate dislike of Obama. I am not American, and certainly I don't want to tell you you shouldn't dislike Obama, if you do. I just wonder why you think so many Americans are so passionate when it comes to rejecting Obama.

From what I've read over here in Germany, it seems to me Obama has been doing an ok job so far. Maybe not outstanding, but not horrible either. Take this article from a German paper as an example:

(translation mine, so please excuse mistakes)



USA: Das Obama-Paradox | Politik | ZEIT ONLINE

What do you think? Is that foreign article spot on, or do you think it is missing essential aspects?

As I said, personally, as a non-American, I believe Obama has been an ok President so far. Certainly better than Bush. I didn't like Bush, because I think his foreign policy was too uncompromising, he didn't think much of diplomacy and the impression arose he is bullying his allies.

Also, I am skeptical of many of Bush's policies. For example, I opposed the Iraq war, for good reasons, and although the worst case has not become reality, many of the concerns have been confirmed. I am not fond of the abrogation of many civil rights in the name of fighting terrorism, especially extralegal detentions, denial of fair trials and torture. My stomach just aches when I think of that. I believe we shouldn't violate our basic values just because we are afraid, because we are not giving a good example when doing so. Is it just our greatest strength that we even give horrible criminals a fair trial and the right on defense? Isn't that exactly what makes us better than other countries? And the government shouldn't have so much power it can easily imprison suspects, that is dangerous and invites abuse; The government shouldn't be above the law. A little less safety just is the price of freedom, in my opinion, but it's worth being paid.

On top of that, I didn't really like Bush's rhetorics. Maybe that's a cultural thing, because Germany is a culturally rather "blue" state, by American standards. For example, I don't really understand Bush's religiously toned rhetorics, and his occasional martial attitude. It just made me suspicious.

So when Obama was elected, I was hopeful. At any rate, his rhetorics are more likeable than Bush's, IMHO, and he is a outstanding speaker. I liked his Berlin speech in 2008, it showed that he has a talent for reaching non-Americans too. But of course rhetorics alone are not very important, although I believe it's not for the bad when a President is a good speaker too. But that's just a formal thing.

I am also fond of Obama's foreign policies so far. He put more emphasis on cooperation again, was more inclusive towards America's long time allies again, and his efforts towards Russia and China have yielded a certain positive effect already (for example, Russia and China are more cooperative now when it comes to countering Iran's nuclear program). Also, I think it was a good decision that Obama announced a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq.

I am disappointed, though, that Obama has not curbed the government pracitizes of extralegal detention and denial of fair trials for suspects, but at least he is planning on closing Guantanamo and has ended torture. But I am disappointed he doesn't go further, and doesn't end these practizes once and for all.

Naturally, I don't have a strong opinion on Obama's domestic policies as Americans probably do, but even here, I am rather supportive than critical. Are stimulus and health care reform really that bad? Chances are, the recession would have been much worse without the stimulus, at least that is what you often read over here, and might even have become a genuine depression. Of course debts are not nice, but still, it seems in this case, it was a necessary evil to avert worse effects.

And health care? This seems to be a real "red flag" (as we say over here) for many Americans. I don't really understand that either (but I am not familiar with the details). It seems that at very least, the new system is better than what you had before. Many uninsured have been included, which certainly will pay off on the long run, because many will get treatment now before it gets worse, and thus higher costs for procrastinated treatment will be minimized. There will be more prevention of chronic illnesses, instead of after-the-fact treatment, which is more expensive.

Many Americans seem to think that is "socialist" and thus bad, but I think that is an exaggeration. Of course I understand too public systems are prone for inefficiency and waste, but that doesn't necessarily need to be a too big problem, and such a public system has many good sides too. Not least that it's more fair and makes sure general public health increases. And it's not necessarily "socialism". I understand many Americans are wary of public programs, because they are not familiar with it, but I can assure you, you are miles away from genuine socialism. We had genuine socialism in the east part of Germany only 20 years ago, and it was nothing like what Obama does, but was much, much more extreme.

So you really shouldn't worry, even if you oppose public health care. Such a system may be good or bad, favorable or unfavorable for good reasons, but you don't need to worry it will bring socialism or even tyranny. At worst, it's a bit inefficient. No need to grab the guns and march towards Washington. :mrgreen:

So what do you think? Do you rather like or dislike Obama, and what do you think of my thoughts? Am I missing anything important?
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I like Obama. I think he's doing an adequate job, all things considered.
I don't understand what more people expect.
 
BDBoop said:
Oh, gotcha! So then, your gang worships Bush? I get it now.

Thanks for the clarification.
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Thats just the goofiest response...my 'gang'? Guess you must have missed the several times where I have said Bush's policies are the reason I left the republican party.

But...ya KINDA prove my point...so NICE!
 
:lamo
Redress said:
People TRIP over themselves TO defend someONE we kinda respect(which IS different than worship) from STUPID attacks. WHEN the far right starts TALKING about death panels IN THE health insurance debate, YEAH, we will attack that stupidity. WHEN you all WHINE about Obama bowing, we will defend him from the STUPID attack.

WHEN oBAMA(see what I did there?) does stuff we like, WE will defend him, when HE does STUFF we don't, we DON'T bother to defend HIM, and will CRITICIZE him. YOU are free to do a search and find me complaining about things Obama and liberals have done. SINCE he is a liberal, us liberals will, generally, agree with him more than not.
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You go ahead and peruse the site...there are certin posters here who ABSOLUTELY rush to his defense at the drop of a hat.

And nice to see the emphasis is getting to YOU...:2wave: Im guessin maybe it struck a little nerve!
 
Dav said:
Reality. I seriously doubt the net hatred towards Obama approaches one fifth of that towards Bush at his peak.
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How many plots went on to assassinate Bush compared to Obama? Even the most diehard anti-Bush person wasn't out to kill Bush. Last I checked, the Secret Service has dealt with more then a handful of semi serious to real plots to assassinate Obama.

I think you're wrong on this.
 
SgtRock said:
Its his politics, he is the most liberal president in the history of our republic. His Approval rating is around 47% and dropping. He will be a one term president.
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So Bush Jr. was the 2nd most liberal? Have you ever compared their policies?

A President who get explicit loopholes for hedge funds in the financial reform bill can hardly be called "most liberal president."
 
One word: Revenge. We've heard it at DP many times by many posters. It's revenge for how Bush was treated.
 
obvious Child said:
How many plots went on to assassinate Bush compared to Obama? Even the most diehard anti-Bush person wasn't out to kill Bush. Last I checked, the Secret Service has dealt with more then a handful of semi serious to real plots to assassinate Obama.

I think you're wrong on this.
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I don't think you can attribute that to a larger trend. We are talking very, very small numbers here, whereas I'm looking at the scope of the entire nation. Besides, JFK and Reagan both had assination attempts at times when they were popular (one attempt successful, obviously), as have other presidents, whereas this did not happen to presidents like Hoover and Nixon and LBJ, for each whom there was a tremendous amount of hatred towards.

Also, I don't find it unlikely that the SS is just being a bit paranoid and overzealous now because they expect Obama to be targeted.

EDIT: Upon looking into it, it appears that 1. since many of the "attempts" at Obama's life were alleged rather than real, I was probably right about the SS; 2. Obama has only had one such supposed attempt on his life while in the White House (and looks like on of the less actually true ones); 3. The two or three actual attemps at his assassionation - all of them on the campaign trail rather than as president - have been by white supremacists, who are obviously a very tiny minority of Obama haters, and do not represent anyone but theirselves. Thus, it does not indicate anything larger about hatred towards Obama vs hatred towards Bush.

I still maintain that hatred towards Bush was more acceptable and mainstream (especially in the media), more intense, and more widespread than hatred of Obama, by a gigantic margin.
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
One word: Revenge. We've heard it at DP many times by many posters. It's revenge for how Bush was treated.
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Is it right because it qualifies as revenge? If so, couldn't one argue that it was "right" when it was done to Bush because that was "revenge" for how the Clintons were treated?

These are, of course, rhetorical questions.
 
Dav said:
I still maintain that hatred towards Bush was more acceptable and mainstream (especially in the media), more intense, and more widespread than hatred of Obama, by a gigantic margin.
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How large of a group of people do you think hated Bush simply because of the color of his skin?

That number alone pushes Obama over the top. You just don't see it because you agree with the animosity toward Obama so it doesn't seem as intense to you.
 
TennesseeRain said:
How large of a group of people do you think hated Bush simply because of the color of his skin?
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Probably not much less than the number who hate Obama because of the color of his skin. We're talking insignificant numbers in both cases.
 
Dav said:
Probably not much less than the number who hate Obama because of the color of his skin. We're talking insignificant numbers in both cases.
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I don't believe you.
 
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