Naive question: Why is there so much passionate dislike of Obama?

[Harshaw]

How many plots went on to assassinate Bush compared to Obama? Even the most diehard anti-Bush person wasn't out to kill Bush. Last I checked, the Secret Service has dealt with more then a handful of semi serious to real plots to assassinate Obama.

I think you're wrong on this.

A simple search of Google finds three for Bush and three for Obama.

 

[Slartibartfast]

A simple search of Google finds three for Bush and three for Obama.

3 for Bush over 8 years and 3 for Obama over 18 months?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

3 for Bush over 8 years and 3 for Obama over 18 months?

I don't think we can take any of these numbers are accurate. I doubt the SS is releasing such info with all threats accounted for. To me this is a rather silly argument.

 

[Dav]

3 for Bush over 8 years and 3 for Obama over 18 months?

No, the results for Obama go back to 2007, oddly enough.

 

[Harshaw]

3 for Bush over 8 years and 3 for Obama over 18 months?

He wanted a straight comparison. But as others have pointed out, the plots against Obama were from before he took office.

 

[lizzie]

when debating with Americans online, I discovered there seems to be a lot of passionate dislike of Obama. I am not American, and certainly I don't want to tell you you shouldn't dislike Obama, if you do. I just wonder why you think so many Americans are so passionate when it comes to rejecting Obama.

My personal view is that he is dishonest and of poor character, manipulative, a power monger, disingenuous, and makes poor choices for close friends and associates. That being said, he's in the same league with most politicians. I can overlook ignorance, and even stupidity, but Obama is neither.
The thing that strikes me as a real fault, when being in the office of president, is that he continues to act like he's on the campaign trail, pointedly and purposely trying to alienate specific individuals and demonizing those who disagree with him politically. This is highly unbecoming of a leader.

 

[niftydrifty]

Reading this thread, it makes no sense to me, why a discussion of why there is so much passionate dislike of Obama now, would have to include what the left allegedly did to someone else years ago or how people on this website behave. Maybe that right there is a piece of evidence, too.

 

[TennesseeRain]

A simple search of Google finds three for Bush and three for Obama.

You seriously googled that? Damn. I wouldn't do that google search for all the chocolate chip cookies on the planet.

BTW, if so many people HATED Bush from day one, how do you explain his high approval rating after 9/11? We stopped hating him and then started hating him again?

 

[Dav]

We stopped hating him and then started hating him again?

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened.

 

[Harshaw]

You seriously googled that? Damn. I wouldn't do that google search for all the chocolate chip cookies on the planet.

Good for you.

 

[majora$$hole]

It's actually very simple: The opposition to the party in power always complains much louder and about practically everything the current President does. It was the exact same thing under Bush. The American left-wing totally lost their minds for 8 years in their abject hate for Bush. The same thing is now happening to the right-wing. Same ol' same ol'.

I think it's hilarious, personally.

you got that right sister, it dosen't matter if there is a D or an R on their forehead. which also explains politics in america it dosen't matter which symbol you have on your forehead someone else (with far more power than you) is pulling your strings.

 

[obvious Child]

I don't think you can attribute that to a larger trend. We are talking very, very small numbers here, whereas I'm looking at the scope of the entire nation. Besides, JFK and Reagan both had assination attempts at times when they were popular (one attempt successful, obviously), as have other presidents, whereas this did not happen to presidents like Hoover and Nixon and LBJ, for each whom there was a tremendous amount of hatred towards.

But last I checked, none of the presidents you named faced this many personal threats to their lives.

Also, I don't find it unlikely that the SS is just being a bit paranoid and overzealous now because they expect Obama to be targeted.

Perhaps, but that also offers you a very convenient way of ignoring my point.

Thus, it does not indicate anything larger about hatred towards Obama vs hatred towards Bush.

Depends how you define alleged. Actual resources behind the threats make them far more real then alleged. Furthermore, last I checked, it wasn't just white supremacists.

I still maintain that hatred towards Bush was more acceptable and mainstream (especially in the media), more intense, and more widespread than hatred of Obama, by a gigantic margin.

And we can maintain you are wrong.

 

[Fiddytree]

The article is making the argument that his political successes with legislation are equated with actual progress, when in fact that is rather disputed...despite its attempts to make the argument that it is rather his political opponents and the masses who just don't realize what progress is.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Is it right because it qualifies as revenge? If so, couldn't one argue that it was "right" when it was done to Bush because that was "revenge" for how the Clintons were treated?

These are, of course, rhetorical questions.

Nope. I would not consider it right, regardless.

 

[Harshaw]

One word: Revenge. We've heard it at DP many times by many posters. It's revenge for how Bush was treated.

To some extent that is true. But you also can't just disregard the previous decades when saying "why oh why is there so much anger today"?

It also dismisses the idea that there's any legitimate anger out there.

 

[Dav]

I really don't understand how anyone could possibly think that there's anywhere near as much hatred towards Obama as there was towards Bush.
Where are these people getting this idea from? Rush Limbaugh? Glenn Beck?

Hatred towards Bush went far beyond the talking heads. It was everywhere on T.V., in the movies, in the schools, in the newspapers, on the internet, in stand-up comedy, in statements by celebreties... I'm sure I'm mising a few. I really can't imagine anywhere near the same level of vitrol towards Obama being shown in any of the same mediums - from cartoons to school teachers. There's always jabs and parodies, but I'm talking pure revolt.

Just recently - he isn't even president anymore - a picture of Bush came up for some reason in our history classroom, and the teacher made some joke about how he'd prefer Hitler or something.
That's the sort of stuff that happened all the time for the last ten years. And I have yet to even see it once happen with Obama.

Even where Obama is criticized or taken jabs at, a much, much larger portion of it is delivered more calmly and dispassionately, whereas for Bush you'd think they were talking about someone who personally killed their puppy. Of course you won't think it's less if you think every Obama opponent is a Rush Limbaugh clone, but if you really think that you're even more out of touch than thinking there's more hatred towards Obama than Bush would suggest.


EDIT: Now that I think about it, even hatred towards Sarah Palin far, far exceeds hatred towards Obama. She has become the new Bush, in terms of being the new victim of so much mouth-foaming hatred, not Obama.

 

[Redress]

Dav, some people are just made for making fun of. That is why Bush had so many jokes made at his expense. Bush was funny. Compare these two lists:

Bush, Quayle, Carter, Gore, Palin

Reagan, Ford, Clinton, Obama

One of those lists is just easier to make fun of than the other, by a large margin.

 

[Dav]

Dav, some people are just made for making fun of. That is why Bush had so many jokes made at his expense. Bush was funny. Compare these two lists:

Bush, Quayle, Carter, Gore, Palin

Reagan, Ford, Clinton, Obama

One of those lists is just easier to make fun of than the other, by a large margin.

I actually agree, for the most part, but... really? Ford and Clinton on the bottom list?

Honestly, I'd almost be tempted to rank Bush as harder to make fun of than Clinton, just because of the passions he evoked. Same with Palin. They're easy to make fun of in theory, until in practice it ends up being mouth-foaming rants under the label of comedy. Of course, this is partially why it's harder to make fun of Obama and Reagan too.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I actually agree, for the most part, but... really? Ford and Clinton on the bottom list?

Honestly, I'd almost be tempted to rank Bush as harder to make fun of than Clinton, just because of the passions he evoked. Same with Palin. They're easy to make fun of in theory, until in practice it ends up being mouth-foaming rants under the label of comedy. Of course, this is partially why it's harder to make fun of Obama and Reagan too.

I think a good metric is how well SNL is able to do a parody of them. The parody of clinton was awful! :mrgreen:

 

[Redress]

I actually agree, for the most part, but... really? Ford and Clinton on the bottom list?

Honestly, I'd almost be tempted to rank Bush as harder to make fun of than Clinton, just because of the passions he evoked. Same with Palin. They're easy to make fun of in theory, until in practice it ends up being mouth-foaming rants under the label of comedy. Of course, this is partially why it's harder to make fun of Obama and Reagan too.

Ford was dry. I mean, I have immense respect for the man, but he was dull. Clinton should have been easy, but no one ever really succeeded.

By the way, any one remember the Cartoonist Honeymoon Week? No making fun of Bush the elder for a whole week when he took office, so he could enact bold policy with fear of being mocked...and to thank him for Quayle.

 

[Dav]

I think a good metric is how well SNL is able to do a parody of them. The parody of clinton was awful! :mrgreen:

lol, but... SNL is awful in general most of the time.

I'd say a better rank is how well the Simpsons are able to do a parody of them. Their Clinton and Bush Sr. parodies were hilarious, whereas they largely tiptoed around Bush, and if they did try to parody him it was the same mouth-foaming stuff I was talking about. I haven't watched the recent episodes, but I doubt they go after Obama or even Palin as much as they did Clinton and Bush Sr. (to be fair, they had a sort of personal rivalry with the first Bush).

 

[Zyphlin]

The first Bush Simpsons episode was amazing. Hellllllllllllo Mr. Bush!

I think the passionate HATRED is probably relatively equal between Bush and Obama. Note relatively, as you had a 9+ year build up of it for Bush, you have had a 1+ year thus far really for Obama. You also have 9+ years of Memories for Bush compared to the 1 or 2 for Obama.

I also think Redress hit a point with the "jokability" of a particular President. Bush I was relatlively bland and while Dana Carvey did a fun impression, beyond that there wasn't much. He didn't give a lot of great stand up fodder, he wasn't a big character, and he was over shadowed by the wonder that was Quayle.

Clinton as an impersonation was rather boring and didn't have a lot of good joke material for the majority of his Presidency. Oh hey, he's fat and likes hamburgers! hahaha. Seriously, Will Ferrel on MadTV's Clinton was abysmal and just not that funny. It wasn't until the Monica stuff happened that you started having a really great thing to go off of, and even at that point it gave better fodder for Stand Up then it did for parody.

Bush was just custom made for jokes and parody. He was extremely folksy, which was part of his appeal for some but also is ripe for jokes. His misspeaks were not just "wow that's dumb", or "eh, he said the word wrong", or "ah that happens once in a while"...they were often and often times hillarious on their own. Seriously, I don't see how anyone that's just looking at it objectively can't laugh at the notion of OB-GYN's not able to practice their love with women? Honestly, its just great. He was also an extremely animated individual, the type that talks with his body, his hands, his eyes as much as with his words.

A lot of those things made Bush endearing to some. I've always felt that he was a rather horrible speech reader but an above average casual speaker honestly. The folkys cadance and accent, the natural and unrefined body language, the slip ups to me added to the fact that when he was talking off the cuff and off script he came off as unusually honest and sincere for a politician and far more charismatic then he was when he's on a campaign stop or on TV giving a speech. But they were also perfect characteristics to launch into jokes. It also helped that almost immedietely you had Will Ferrel pull off a picture perfect Bush that remains funny to this day and basically gave everyone a blue print.

Additionally I think in part it was the age we were going into at that point too. It used to be all you saw of stand ups other than their show was if he was on a late show or HBO. Now you got Comedy Central having multiple stand up specials, youtube video of tons of stand ups, radio stations dedicated to stand up, etc. You have youtube, flash animation, blogs, and podcasts giving individuals tons of ways to proliferate their own comedy. All of which really started coming in big in the new decade.

Obama just isn't as ready made for comedy and, to be honest, comedy isn't as prevelant on the right. Not like its commonly thought of. Comedians are generally left leaning or libertarian leaning based simply on the life style that it generally gravitates to that kind of thing. Ditto for many comedy writers. That doesn't mean there's not right leaning jokes that come out, but I think its naturally you'll see a bit more about those on the right than on the left based even on the subconsious of these types of people.

Though seriously, there's only one option for the best and most fair Political satire out there today...

 

[Redress]

Seriously, I don't see how anyone that's just looking at it objectively can't laugh at the notion of OB-GYN's not able to practice their love with women? Honestly, its just great.

I still think that is one of my all time favorite presidential quotes. Oddly, it made me like Bush more, not less. He clearly did not mean to, but it was a human mistake that was funny. Hell, I always liked that Cheney could make Darth Vader jokes.

 

[Chuz Life]

Hello,

when debating with Americans online, I discovered there seems to be a lot of passionate dislike of Obama. I am not American, and certainly I don't want to tell you you shouldn't dislike Obama, if you do. I just wonder why you think so many Americans are so passionate when it comes to rejecting Obama.

<snipped for brevity>

So what do you think? Do you rather like or dislike Obama, and what do you think of my thoughts? Am I missing anything important?

What's the sense of feeling anything,.... if not to feel it passionately?

Obummer spent 20 Years is the pews of this guys church;



Are we (who have a dislike for the message) to sit quietly and dispassionately at his election and intended direction of OUR country?

 

[Conservative]

Thanks for the explanation. Apparently, American debate is just much more polarized than I am used to over here. I mean sure, we have disagreement, even strong disagreement between the different political camps in Germany too, but the degree of villification and personal rejection in America is stronger. I wonder if that is a rather new development, or if it has always been that way in America and I just didn't see it before (it seems to me that at least before the impeachment process against Clinton, the camps weren't as polarized as they have been under Bush and Obama). And I wonder why that is, or what's the most important reason: Is the American society just more heterogenous and you have a stronger cultural split than in European countries? Has it to do with the media? Are the politicians more polarizing? Maybe even racism in case of Obama?

In all fairness, though, I am not sure I entirely agree that the hatred towards Bush is comparable to that directed against Obama now. It seems to me that in case of Bush, it was more understandable, because Bush's policies were much more controversial, so it makes sense people are so passionate: Starting two wars, both of which were/are very costy, both in terms of human life and money, and at least one of which was extremely risky, regarding the potential consequences. Very far-reaching limitations on civil rights and individual freedom, in the name of fighting terrorism. Even if one agrees with these policies, and thinks the opposition to it is extreme, I think it's not far fetched to recognize they are very far reaching and thus necessarily controversial, resulting in passionate disagreement.

But Obama? I don't see he has done anything remotely as provoking as Bush so far. In fact, many former supporters, who lean to the left, and disappointed by Obama, because his policies are rather centrist and don't go remotely as far as many on the left had hoped. It seems natural to me that the decision to start a war, or even two, will cause more controversy than a health care reform. As I said, in the worst case, a little money is wasted. That may be a good reason to oppose such a reform bill, but hey, that will not cause Nazis riding on dinosaurs to roam the streets. =)

German Guy, not surprising that you aren't seeing the same vitriol against Obama that you saw against Bush as we have a very leftwing press that isn't reporting what Obama is doing here. In 18 months he has added 3 trillion to the debt, implemented a stimulus plan that has done nothing to stimulate our economy as we now have 16 million unemployed Americans, signed a bill putting us on a path to National Healthcare that will do nothing to increase the quality or quantity of healthcare to the American people but will end up putting a tax on all Americans and is a job killer.

Obama's record is being ignored just like his resume. He has done more harmin 18 months than Bush did in 8 years. Bush didn't start two wars, radical Islam did and it was better drawing terrorists into Iraq than chasing them around the mountains of Afghanistan. Obama has made Afghanistan worse and has adopted the Bush doctrine in Iraq.