Most Marines against lifting DADT

[Redress]

that seems to be a left wing mantra: diversity in everything except thought.

Better than your conservative mantra "people different than me are icky!".

See, others can play that stupid game too!

 

[Redress]

it won't ruin retention; it will hurt retention. just as lifting DADT won't ruin good order, discipline, and unit cohesion, it will merely hurt these things.

Again, the data does not support this.

 

[Patria Antiqua]

WTF is the gay "agenda"? Puh-lease.....most gay people just want the same rights that every other citizen in this country has. So I guess if freedom and equality is the gay "Agenda" you are talking about.....count me in as one who will fight hard for it.

You forgot the bit about teaching children how to be gay in schools and wearing assless chaps in public.

 

[Redress]

You forgot the bit about teaching children how to be gay in schools and wearing assless chaps in public.

I never go anywhere without my assless chaps.

 

[Navy Pride]

fortunately for us, the Military Times does a poll:

The Military Times, a liberal Gannett publication favoring inclusion of professed homosexuals in the military, has just released an astonishing poll of active-duty subscribers. Results of the 2008 annual survey indicate that success for that cause essentially would destroy the volunteer force.

As in previous years, the annual Military Times Poll (linked on Drudge today) reveals that approximately 58% of respondents are opposed to efforts to repeal what the survey described as the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy.” The catchphrase incorrectly labels the 1993 law, Section 654, Title 10, which clearly states that homosexuals are not eligible to be in the military.

The 2008 Military Times Poll asked a new question that produced jaw-dropping results: “If the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy is overturned and gays are allowed to serve openly, how would you respond?” The article emphasized that 71% of respondents said they would continue to serve. But almost 10% said “I would not re-enlist or extend my service,” and 14% said “I would consider not re-enlisting or extending my service.” Only 6% expressed “No Opinion.” Before voting to repeal the law, Section 654, Title 10, members of Congress, and President-elect Barack Obama, ought to do the math...

—A rough estimate using Defense Department numbers for all service branches and components, totaling more than 2 million, indicates that a loss of one in ten (almost 10%) would cost the military approximately 228,600 people — more than the active-duty Marine Corps (200,000).

—If an additional 14% decided to leave, the voluntary exodus would translate into a loss of almost 527,000 — a figure approaching the size of today’s active-duty Army (more than 545,000).

—Estimates of losses in active-duty forces alone would range between 141,000 (10%) and 323,000 (23%)...

Corollary programs to make the new policy “work” would include professional “diversity training” to enforce acceptance, and “zero tolerance” of anyone who disagrees. Dissenters would face discipline and be denied promotions, which would end their military careers. Incidents of misconduct would increase threefold, to include male/male and female/female misconduct that undermines discipline and demoralizes the troops. These results would harm recruiting and retention, and effectively destroy the volunteer force.... There is no record of any poll seeking to gauge opinions on the actual consequences of repealing the law: forced cohabitation with homosexuals in all military communities, 24/7, with “zero tolerance” of dissent....

There is no “national security” argument for repealing a law designed to protect good order and discipline in military living conditions offering little or no privacy. Federal courts have upheld the constitutionality of the statute several times, and it continues to enjoy strong support among military men and women. Regardless of what it is called, the 1993 law, Section 654, Title 10, deserves continued support.

The problem is the left does not care if canceling DADT wrecks our military...They don't care about readiness or the morale of the troops already serving...They just want their way.......They want to use our military as a social experiment and that is all that matters........

 

[Redress]

The problem is the left does not care if canceling DADT wrecks our military...They don't care about readiness or the morale of the troops already serving...They just want their way.......They want to use our military as a social experiment and that is all that matters........

Oh bull****. What a complete waste of bandwidth your post I quoted above is.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The problem is the left does not care if canceling DADT wrecks our military...They don't care about readiness or the morale of the troops already serving...They just want their way.......They want to use our military as a social experiment and that is all that matters........

Sort of how the right doesn't care that complaints about lifting DADT essentially boil down to a complete lack of confidence in our military's professionalism.

 

[Navy Pride]

WTF is the gay "agenda"? Puh-lease.....most gay people just want the same rights that every other citizen in this country has. So I guess if freedom and equality is the gay "Agenda" you are talking about.....count me in as one who will fight hard for it.

The Gay Agenda is to stuff the gay lifestyle down every straights throat as and acceptable alternative lifestyle.......That will never happen.........What is ironic is most gays could give a **** less.......They just want to live their life in peace........Its "bleeding heart libs" like you that cause all the problems.........

 

[Navy Pride]

Sort of how the right doesn't care that complaints about lifting DADT essentially boil down to a complete lack of confidence in our military's professionalism.

Why can't you far out lefties let the people who are serving make the decision...They are the ones it affects...........

 

[pbrauer]

The problem is the left does not care if canceling DADT wrecks our military...They don't care about readiness or the morale of the troops already serving...They just want their way.......They want to use our military as a social experiment and that is all that matters........

It seems to me YOU don't care about the positive things gays do in the military and as such harms the military.

 

[Your Star]

Why can't you far out lefties let the people who are serving make the decision...They are the ones it affects...........

And you know it also affects me, and every other LGBT American citizen, and also affects every American taxpayer who pays into the military.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Why can't you far out lefties

I'm not a "lefty" of any flavor. Please stop lying about me.

let the people who are serving make the decision...They are the ones it affects...........

For the same reason we don't let "the people" make decisions about how this nation is to be run -- because we're supposed to elect competent people to do it without being subject to the moment-to-moment whims of the electorate.

Besides, the only way it would negatively impact "the people" such a decision would effect is if the military isn't professional enough to handle openly gay people.

Why aren't you confident in the professionalism of our military?

 

[winston53660]

Why can't you far out lefties let the people who are serving make the decision...They are the ones it affects...........

Fine lets ask all the gay people that ARE serving.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

You mean the people we'd have to fire for admitting they're gay? :lol:

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Being shot at and engaging in warfare is alpha-male-esque. Being near one who is gay isn't.

Somehow numbers of men became convinced that gay is contagious and they'll catch it by breathing the air.

Sounds like the basis for psychological warfare to me - like the Ace or nailed boots. If our soldiers weren't so anti-homosexual then I'd see them being able to exploit it on the battle field - everyone wear a little bit of lipstick, freak out the infidels. . . maybe some eye-shadow.

Well, as criticalthought showed, they are not as homophobic as the poll leads us to believe. Secondly, my point goes to the heart of the matter. They have very stressful jobs, and are trained to follow orders even when they don't like them. When Blacks were integrated into the military, personnel who didn't like it were to suck it up, and they did; when women were integrated into positions previously only occupied by men, personnel who didn't like it were ordered to suck it up, and they did. To say that the military can't handle integration, even when many in uniform are opposed to it, flies in the face of history.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

The problem is the left

I'm not in the left.

does not care if canceling DADT wrecks our military...They don't care about readiness or the morale of the troops already serving...They just want their way.......They want to use our military as a social experiment and that is all that matters........

Does the Canada's gay policy wreck their military? Does Great Britain's? What about Israel's? Please Navy, there's no real evidence that repealing DADT would seriously impact our military's readiness.

 

[Glinda]

The Gay Agenda is to stuff the gay lifestyle down every straights throat as and acceptable alternative lifestyle.......That will never happen.........What is ironic is most gays could give a **** less.......They just want to live their life in peace........Its "bleeding heart libs" like you that cause all the problems.........

:lamo Good grief, Navy. Do you EVER listen to yourself? :lamo

 

[Patria Antiqua]

:lamo Good grief, Navy. Do you EVER listen to yourself? :lamo

I know, all they want is equal rights.

Navy doesn't want to know what they actually want to shove down his throat.

 

[MaggieD]

Does the Canada's gay policy wreck their military? Does Great Britain's? What about Israel's? Please Navy, there's no real evidence that repealing DADT would seriously impact our military's readiness.

Now there's the post of the week!!

Attention All Homophobics!!! Grow the **** up!!!

Starting with Navy "PRIDE".

 

[Ned Racine]

WTF is the gay "agenda"? Puh-lease.....most gay people just want the same rights that every other citizen in this country has. So I guess if freedom and equality is the gay "Agenda" you are talking about.....count me in as one who will fight hard for it.

Which of the 4 Lines in the Bar graph would you fit into (??)

 

[cpwill]

Right, whereas blatant mis-characterization seems to be a practice long enjoyed by both sides.

I never said it should be illegal to be a bigot, just that it's wrong. I've got as much right to call a bigot a bigot as any fan of Leviticus has to wave signs saying "GOD HATES GAYS."

so long as you recognize the equivalency i have no complaints

 

[Redress]

Moderator's Warning:

Time to stop talking about one another and talk about the topic of the thread.

 

[cpwill]

Now there's the post of the week!!

Attention All Homophobics!!! Grow the **** up!!!

Starting with Navy "PRIDE".

well, the hilarious part of this for me is that according to the latest Military Times poll..... one branch is net in favor of repealing DADT.


care to guess which branch that is?

 

[Redress]

well, the hilarious part of this for me is that according to the latest Military Times poll..... one branch is net in favor of repealing DADT.


care to guess which branch that is?

Are you still referring to the outdated poll and the faulty conclusions?

 

[cpwill]

It seems to me YOU don't care about the positive things gays do in the military and as such harms the military.

actually i'm fine with allowing homosexuals to serve, i think DADT is a good compromise.

it seems to us that ya'll often don't seem to care about the negative consequences of repealing DADT; some recognition that at the very least we are talking about trade-offs here would be quite welcome.