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Moscow metro bombs kill dozens

The_Penguin

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Two female suicide bombers blew themselves up on the Moscow subway during the morning rush hour today, killing at least 37 people and injuring more than 60, Russian officials said.

Yuri Luzhkov, the mayor of Moscow, told reporters the suicide bombers were believed to have set off their explosives as trains approached Lubyanka and Park Kultury metro stations.

"The first data that the FSB [Federal Security Service] has given us is that there were two female suicide bombers," he told reporters at Park Kultury.

Vladimir Putin, the prime minister, who was on a visit to the Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk, said those responsible for the attacks would be "destroyed".

-snip-

Moscow metro bombs kill dozens | World news | guardian.co.uk

:(
 

PeteEU

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They didn't happen to follow a certain 'Religion of Peace' by any chance?


Some on this board claim I like to stir things by banging on and on about this sort of thing, but if it was Muslims responsible then there's plenty of previous.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68965-georgia-saakashvili.html#post1058644479

Should it matter what religion they are?

This is about the war in Chechnya, and that war had at its start no real major jihad overtones what so ever.

But thanks to the actions of Moscow, the rebels became more and more radical and desperate. That kind of happens when whole villages are wiped out with tanks and helicopters, the mass torture of civilians and the organised rape of women by the state. Whatever reaction Moscow is getting now is all their own fault in many ways... and AL Q has seen an opportunity and are exploiting it fully.. with training and money.

and no I do not condone or defend this terror in any ways, but I do also not conveniently forget basis of the conflict and its more and more radicalism approach from both sides.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Seems to have the hallmarks. And with all the troubles the unhappy regionals suffer, the last thing they need are jihadis committing atrocities for their own ends. And if the papers don't tell us who the perpetrators are, and they often don't with things like ethic gang crime, then I'll just have to put 2 and 2 together.

But taking the Islamos out of the loop, I see both sides being resolute and with their own fears if the other side gets its way. I think there's too much friction for there not to be a fire.
 

PeteEU

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Seems to have the hallmarks. And with all the troubles the unhappy regionals suffer, the last thing they need are jihadis committing atrocities for their own ends. And if the papers don't tell us who the perpetrators are, and they often don't with things like ethic gang crime, then I'll just have to put 2 and 2 together.

But taking the Islamos out of the loop, I see both sides being resolute and with their own fears if the other side gets its way. I think there's too much friction for there not to be a fire.

Just shows how little you know about the conflict. Chances are these 2 women were "black windows", aka the widows of Chechen freedom fighters. Chances are that they were Muslim. As for being part of a "global jihad".. hardly.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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I indeed have to admit that I'm not sufficiently up on the whole Chechnya thing to go into the whole boring minutiae. Have to admit I never was very interested in it.

However, I did pick up on the Islamist trait of resorting to murder and carnage to sort out their troubles. We keep on being told civilised people should be beyond trying to press their will through violence, hence so much outrage over the IRA.

BBC News - Moscow Metro bombing: Why Chechens are suspected
 
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Orion

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However, I did pick up on the Islamist trait of resorting to murder and carnage to sort out their troubles. We keep on being told civilised people should be beyond trying to press their will through violence, hence so much outrage over the IRA.

Stop trying to racistly pin it on Islam when you've already been proven ignorant on the subject matter. This had nothing to do with Islam.
 

soccerboy22

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Sad to see innocent people die because a group of women were angry at an oppressive government. Obviously it doesn't excuse what these two women did, but it is still sad. My heart goes out to those families who lost loved ones and to a quick and safe recovery to those that were injured.
 

Apocalypse

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May the ones behind those acts be brought to justice.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Stop trying to racistly pin it on Islam when you've already been proven ignorant on the subject matter. This had nothing to do with Islam.

Ooooo, Waysist Alert! Scweam-scweam-scweam! Flash the red light! Ring dat bell!

Nothing to do with Islam? Which is probably why the tribal leader is keen to establish an Islamic outpost in the Caucasus and use his human bombs to terrorise the head nation in the Russian Federation. Look at the BBC article.

Don't sound a lot like ignorance to me, but then that word's just another example of doublespeak now.

_________________

(Though 'racistly' isn't exactly a word. Nice of you to invent a special insult to chuck at an opponent!)
 
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alexa

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Ooooo, Waysist Alert! Scweam-scweam-scweam! Flash the red light! Ring dat bell!

Nothing to do with Islam? Which is probably why the tribal leader is keen to establish an Islamic outpost in the Caucasus and use his human bombs to terrorise the head nation in the Russian Federation. Look at the BBC article.

Don't sound a lot like ignorance to me, but then that word's just another example of doublespeak now.

_________________

(Though 'racistly' isn't exactly a word. Nice of you to invent a special insult to chuck at an opponent!)

You jump to blame Islamists, then you do actually question yourself, then when criticised, you move back to your entrenched position.

Chechnya is not caused by Radical Islam but by the people wanting freedom from Russia as Georgia and others had before.

I do not know what the people there have endured but I do know from watching one or two documentaries there that it was a hell that you and I can barely imagine.

and yes, eventually of course radical Islamists saw an opportunity and some people who it seemed through it all had lost their own humanity, joined up.

Because in those documentaries I listened to people who had lost their humanity it seems through the inhumanity they themselves had received.

Chechnya is where the Beslam terrorists came from. Now killing of any civilians is wrong but the endangering and killing of children, deliberately choosing children is beyond comprehension. I heard people in a documentary saying that they had lost all, their children had been killed, no one cared when they did that, they wanted the Russians to know the pain they felt. (I did hear that the women on that mission refused to explode their bombs and so were murdered)

I thought to myself, No, whatever happens, nothing can be so bad that you can lose your humanity to such an extent that you can deliberately harm children.

I have never been in that kind of a situation. It is something which is beyond our comprehension. The level of cruelty necessary to take from us our humanity.

So no, this is not due to Radical Islam, even if that is the method which has been used on this occasion.

This is due to people being treated on a level of such depravity that they have lost their humanity.


What I think sometimes people might like is if you could possibly look a bit more at the situation rather than just coming out with your slogans.

Link chosen pretty much at ramdon


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/chechnya1.htm
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Chechnya is not caused by Radical Islam but by the people wanting freedom from Russia as Georgia and others had before.

I never said it was caused by Islamists. Elsewhere, on the thread I linked to at the start, I mentioned the states wanting to break away. Admittedly I was teasing Orion for his 'disciplinary' but I can't really believe the inhumanity of it either. And as you say, Islamic extremists are quick to capitalise and they come out with more than slogans themselves.

I can kind of understand just how deeply people of the little states feel over just the idea of Russian assaults. They had all those years of attack and persecution through the centuries, culminating in things like the Soviet ethnic cleansing. But there was never anything like suicide bombs, schoolkids being shot in the back and demands for Islamic caliphates before; this is a new one for Russia. And the difference between 'ordinary' partisans or insurgents and Islamic warlords is that the Muslim tribal bosses thrive on all the death and destruction.
 
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jujuman13

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I have every sympathy for the relatives & friends of those killed in this the latest attack.


Russia arms Iran, Venezuela, as well as any group / organization that causes problems with any of the western Democracies.
Russia has a history of alienating any country that was previously ruled under the Soviet Union system & no longer kowtows to whatever Russia demands.
We have seen this behavior by Russia with regards to all the countries freed from Soviet despot rule, as with Estonia, Chechnya, Lithuania, Belarus, Poland, Georgia, Ukraine etc etc.
Russia cannot accept that it no longer rules these nations as well as having little influence with them unless a Russian Puppet is installed as their President / leader..
.
The man that Russia has installed to run Chechnya is a thug, there is not the slightest evidence he does anything without the express approval of Russia.

Putin and his Puppet Medvedev have had more than 6 years to come to a civilized solution with regards to Chechnya, regrettably Russia has failed much to the chagrin of it's own citizens who have to put up with being murdered.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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Do we really have to go through why the whole generalizations about 1.1 billion people are stupid? Of course you're going to hear about the crazy Jihadists. Bombings are considered newsworthy! Being a non-crazy Jihadist isn't.
 

soccerboy22

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Except this has nothing to do with the Muslim faith. One person was trying to turn it into that.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Bombings are considered newsworthy! Being a non-crazy Jihadist isn't.

Is there a non-crazy jihadist out there?! Does that mean that being an armchair jihadist is somehow acceptable?

Funny how we're told that jihadists can be good old boys who mix in as good as any of them (they played cricket, became doctors and helped handicapped children in the Glasgow case!) and that Islamic terrorism is nothing to do with Islam!

It's no good shooting the messenger with logic like that.


It seems like those women were duped but Islam was involved as far as the tribal warlords are concerned.
 
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Andalublue

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The Christian equivalent of a Jihadist is a Crusader. Can there ever be such a thing as a non-crazy Crusader? I suspect there can. Can there ever be such a thing as a non-crazy Jihadist? What about those who declare Jihad against violence? Shura Council | WISE Muslim Women Sounds like a worthwhile Crusade to me.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Indeed. And Christian crusaders have been widely lambasted, as both words have had violent connotations in the past. Most of those proposing jihad seem to be violent cranks. So it's not been surprising that it's prominent with the j-word now.

I agree that to take the words literally can give you a struggle against violence. I applaud that, not just in the Muslim community. I hope these ladies go far as in their societies it's much much harder to get a fair deal.
 
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DrunkenAsparagus

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Is there a non-crazy jihadist out there?! Does that mean that being an armchair jihadist is somehow acceptable?

What?:confused:

Funny how we're told that jihadists can be good old boys who mix in as good as any of them (they played cricket, became doctors and helped handicapped children in the Glasgow case!) and that Islamic terrorism is nothing to do with Islam!


It's no good shooting the messenger with logic like that.


It seems like those women were duped but Islam was involved as far as the tribal warlords are concerned.

Comparing all Muslims to the Jihadists is like comparing all Christians to Crusaders. That's the loud minority that gets the atttention.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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I wasn't comparing all Muslims to the jihadists.
 

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Republic_Of_Public

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Except this has nothing to do with the Muslim faith.

Everything apart from the evidence seems to confirm that.
 
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