Maybe there's hope for the Catholic church yet!

[EdwinWillers]

The Pope may have forgotten about Romans chapter 1:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

I seriously doubt the pope's ever read Romans.

 

[Woodman909]

Pope Francis Assures Atheists: You don't have to believe in God to go to heaven. I never thought I'd hear that from ANY religion -- much less from the Catholic Church. This is BIG, folks.

That's always been my problem with Christianity. The belief has always been: If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior? You will go to hell. What kind of a compassionate God would make THAT rule??



Pope Francis assures atheists: You don

I was raised Roman Catholic,, but have not been to church in decades. The politics and terrible handling of abuse cases turned me away. Over the years, the born-again crowd made me wince in pain to see how their concrete literal interpretation of the Bible served only to make them the new chosen few.

This pope has shown light at the end of a dark tunnel many have struggled to get through for many years. He shuns the expense and royalty-like practices of the papacy and shows everyone what it really means to be a good Christian, or more accurately , a good human being.

 

[nota bene]

I seriously doubt the pope's ever read Romans.

He's a Jesuit. I'm sure he has.

 

[Surtr]

Pope Francis Assures Atheists: You don't have to believe in God to go to heaven. I never thought I'd hear that from ANY religion -- much less from the Catholic Church. This is BIG, folks.

That's always been my problem with Christianity. The belief has always been: If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior? You will go to hell. What kind of a compassionate God would make THAT rule??



Pope Francis assures atheists: You don

It's also incorrect from a scriptural standpoint.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Pope Francis Assures Atheists: You don't have to believe in God to go to heaven. I never thought I'd hear that from ANY religion -- much less from the Catholic Church. This is BIG, folks.

That's always been my problem with Christianity. The belief has always been: If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior? You will go to hell. What kind of a compassionate God would make THAT rule??



Pope Francis assures atheists: You don

It seems the catholic church is continuing its long history of rewriting the bible to best fit whatever their agenda is.

 

[EdwinWillers]

It's also incorrect from a scriptural standpoint.

Yeah, slightly.

 

[SBu]

But then there is the Catholic Church response to that:



Catholic Church confirms atheists still go to hell, after Pope Francis suggests they might go to heaven - Europe - World - The Independent

The Pope is the Catholic Church. Whatever he says goes, he is the pontiff as the successor of Saint Peter. As Jesus said to Peter: I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Catholics believe this authority is handed down from Pope to Pope as the Bishop of Rome. Really, he's just confirming what most reasonable Catholics already believe.

 

[EdwinWillers]

The Pope is the Catholic Church. Whatever he says goes, he is the pontiff as the successor of Saint Peter. As Jesus said to Peter: I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Catholics believe this authority is handed down from Pope to Pope as the Bishop of Rome. Really, he's just confirming what most reasonable Catholics already believe.

Only, that's not what Jesus told Peter. Catholics have been purposely misinterpreting that since the 4th century, using it as justification for their man-made version of Christianity. Contextually, what Jesus was talking about was Peter's confession of Him - "He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus was referring to Peter's answer "You are the Christ..." as the rock upon which His church is built.

Similarly, they have misinterpreted the phrase you bolded as justification for their blasphemous usurpation of Christ's intermediary power. The pope has no such power as you suggest. Indeed, he is just a man, no more no less.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't believe in moral relativism either. The difference between us is that I do believe there is a single, universal Moral standard for the entier human race, and that neither you, nor I, nor anyone in our conceivable memory came up with it. It's as old as the human race itself. I also tend to see "prosperity" as more than a simple dollars and cents issue. It's much more about how well a society accepts and engrains the ideals of Right/Wrong, and Law and Order into itself, and the results that provides which shows true prosperity.

Moral absolutism founded in The Fates and Wood Faeries is hardly compelling.

 

[Logicman]

Only, that's not what Jesus told Peter. Catholics have been purposely misinterpreting that since the 4th century, using it as justification for their man-made version of Christianity. Contextually, what Jesus was talking about was Peter's confession of Him - "He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus was referring to Peter's answer "You are the Christ..." as the rock upon which His church is built.

Similarly, they have misinterpreted the phrase you bolded as justification for their blasphemous usurpation of Christ's intermediary power. The pope has no such power as you suggest. Indeed, he is just a man, no more no less.

You're exactly right. Jesus is God, and God is the Rock (numerous scriptures on that). 1 Corinthians 10:4 also supports Jesus as the Rock.

 

[Tigger]

Moral absolutism founded in The Fates and Wood Faeries is hardly compelling.

Remember that when you face our Makers at the end of your life.

 

[nota bene]

The Pope is the Catholic Church. Whatever he says goes, he is the pontiff as the successor of Saint Peter. As Jesus said to Peter: I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Catholics believe this authority is handed down from Pope to Pope as the Bishop of Rome. Really, he's just confirming what most reasonable Catholics already believe.

Are you Catholic?

 

[ecofarm]

Remember that when you face our Makers at the end of your life.

My life will never end. My influence continues on into eternity. I do not fear death, it is a creation of man.

 

[SBu]

Only, that's not what Jesus told Peter. Catholics have been purposely misinterpreting that since the 4th century, using it as justification for their man-made version of Christianity. Contextually, what Jesus was talking about was Peter's confession of Him - "He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus was referring to Peter's answer "You are the Christ..." as the rock upon which His church is built.

Similarly, they have misinterpreted the phrase you bolded as justification for their blasphemous usurpation of Christ's intermediary power. The pope has no such power as you suggest. Indeed, he is just a man, no more no less.

I was referring to what Catholics believe after quoting someone else who suggested that some other Catholic official contradicted the Pope's statement. I'm not interested in getting into theological arguments with you. You can take your desperate loyalty to doctrine somewhere else for that.

 

[SBu]

Are you Catholic?

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools etc... Haven't practiced for many years. So I'm familiar with the teachings, culture, etc. I suspect you have another motive in your question, however, than just curiosity. Perhaps you're going to say something like, "Catholics aren't that reasonable and the official line is that other people go to hell" or words to that effect. My experience growing up around Catholics is that they are much less fanatical absolutists than other Christian organizations like evangelicals for example. Or perhaps you will try to point out some minor theological misstep or inaccuracy...again this is just a quick rendition of what Catholics believe and I'm not interested in getting into stupid theological battles with anyone. Then again, maybe it was just curiosity?

 

[EdwinWillers]

I was referring to what Catholics believe after quoting someone else who suggested that some other Catholic official contradicted the Pope's statement. I'm not interested in getting into theological arguments with you. You can take your desperate loyalty to doctrine somewhere else for that.

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools etc... Haven't practiced for many years. So I'm familiar with the teachings, culture, etc. I suspect you have another motive in your question, however, than just curiosity. Perhaps you're going to say something like, "Catholics aren't that reasonable and the official line is that other people go to hell" or words to that effect. My experience growing up around Catholics is that they are much less fanatical absolutists than other Christian organizations like evangelicals for example. Or perhaps you will try to point out some minor theological misstep or inaccuracy...again this is just a quick rendition of what Catholics believe and I'm not interested in getting into stupid theological battles with anyone. Then again, maybe it was just curiosity?

Well that was a thread killer.

 

[SBu]

Well that was a thread killer.

Some threads need to be killed.

 

[nota bene]

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools etc... Haven't practiced for many years. So I'm familiar with the teachings, culture, etc. I suspect you have another motive in your question, however, than just curiosity. Perhaps you're going to say something like, "Catholics aren't that reasonable and the official line is that other people go to hell" or words to that effect. My experience growing up around Catholics is that they are much less fanatical absolutists than other Christian organizations like evangelicals for example. Or perhaps you will try to point out some minor theological misstep or inaccuracy...again this is just a quick rendition of what Catholics believe and I'm not interested in getting into stupid theological battles with anyone. Then again, maybe it was just curiosity?

Sorry you looked instantly for motive. I was simply curious.

 

[JC Callender]

Well, I was taught that only Christians who desert/reject Jesus go to hell automatically.
People who do not know about Christ don't go to hell, they will be judged by their deeds, if they were naughty or nice as it were.

But anyway, what do atheists care if they go to the Christian heaven or hell? They don't believe in those places anyway, so for them, the Pope granting them a "heaven or hell visa" doesnt' mean anything in truth.

It's like I would be offering you the chance to go and get blueberries but you don't believe in blueberries.

Also, God (the Father) is not compassionate. Jesus is. That's why Christians say: accept Jesus as your savior, because Jesus is compassionate and will forgive you. God, as per old testament, hates your guts. His only "good deed" was to promise to send His son to save you. That's it. Everything else was sending plagues, rain fire, drown the world, take away your immortality and generally giving all sort of orders and making all sort of tests on the go.

I think this is an excellent post, but do you really believe that Old Testament God hates us? If so, why would He give us the Ten Commandments?

And I'd say giving us Jesus was more than just a "good deed".

 

[specklebang]

So, I have a question and this seems an appropriate thread.

Do you believe there is an after-life, a heaven and a hell? In other words, are you self-aware after your body dies. That's a simple yes or no question. Try not to blame Bush or Obama. Just Yes - I believe in an afterlife or No - when I'm dead I'm dead.

I'm not trying to set anybody up. I'm a true agnostic - I don't have a clue. I've been contributing to both parties, just like corporations give to both D and R. I don't pray but I do good deeds.

 

[JC Callender]

The Bible was written by man. It's been interpreted by man. Man is fallible. It's a little short sighted to rest your faith on such a flimsy foundation, but to each his own. :shrug:

I think what ultimately matters is who or what has inspired man to write and interpret it. I think most agree that Jesus really lived and was crucified. Why would He put himself through that? If Jesus story didn't happen the way it was written, almost the same by 4 different authors, why would they make it up?

 

[JC Callender]

Religion isn't necessarily a good thing in Government but Morality IS necessary for a decent society or nation to truly prosper. That's why I have such fear for the USA.... we have lost all pretense of Morality, Decency, and Values.

When did we have these things?

 

[lizzie]

Do you believe there is an after-life, a heaven and a hell? In other words, are you self-aware after your body dies. That's a simple yes or no question. Try not to blame Bush or Obama. Just Yes - I believe in an afterlife or No - when I'm dead I'm dead.

What I tend to believe is that there is a consciousness which survives after death- not a physical form as we know it, but the part of us which makes us what we are mentally and emotionally.

 

[JC Callender]

Our soul?

What I tend to believe is that there is a consciousness which survives after death- not a physical form as we know it, but the part of us which makes us what we are mentally and emotionally.

 

[lizzie]

Our soul?

Not exactly.