Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Driver

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

That absolutely IS the question.

The fact that one is against the law and one isn't means that these situations are NOT the same, and that it's not unreasonable for people to feel differently about them both.

Just because one disagree's with a law doesn't mean that law doesn't exist. I disagree with the idea that smoking pot in one's home is illegal; that doesn't mean I feel like someone shouldn't be subject to legal action if caught doing it because the reality is it IS against the law.

I am not necessarily "against the law", though, I do find it probably no longer worth its costs. What I am against is allowing a law to be made and applied that is contradictory to the wording of an Amendment unless one does it the legal way and changes the Amendment. As it stands, the government is not allowed to make a law that interferes with religious practice. I know that there are a lot of bigots around that act as though it did not interfere with religious practice to force someone to act against her conscience, but that is the way bigotry and correspondingly fascism work.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I guess a better way of stating it is that the woman wasn't wrong in her request.

She's free to make the request and there's nothing wrong (from a business sense) with her ASKING for that special request.

What was wrong from a business sense was the manager acquiescing to her request when it violated store policy. In reality he should've told her they didn't offer that service. At which point she could either decide that she wanted to cancel her order or that she would simply accept whatever delivery person arrived.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Said deal was outside of company policy. As such, the individual making the deal was acting outside the scope of his authority. As such, the company is under no obligation to uphold said deal.

So the article says. And? That has no influence on the legal status of a deal with an outsider. If you had argued the deal was illegal, then you would be on better ground. But that would require clear thought.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

It is a matter for any thread about declined service by a company. If you are going to force people to act against their conscience, you have to ask them to do so in all cases. The last thing we want in a country is selective application of law. That is fascist, at least by definition.

Are you familiar with The Civil Rights Act? Don't agree with it? So be it. But it is the law of the land and it applies to any protected group.

If you don't see the difference between a restaurant refusing to allow blacks a seat at their lunch counter, and a business refusing to allow their employees to be denigrated by prejudice? You aren't trying hard enough. You're making a poor comparison. Apples and oranges come to mind.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Disagree entirely.

Are you in favor of disallowing 5 year olds from voting in federal elections? Are you in favor of women being entered into selective service with the potential of being drafted into front line combat roles? Are you in favor of a 16 year old being able to sue for age discrimination, or on the flip side do you instead support the ability of an employer to fire someone simply because they're 52 years old?

Since the very days of our founding the government has been allowed to have selective application of the law. The caveat being that there are certain levels of importance and relevance that the government must show to justify such selective enforcement.

That is not selective application but it is a demonstration of poor logic.

 

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

She's free to make the request and there's nothing wrong (from a business sense) with her ASKING for that special request.

What was wrong from a business sense was the manager acquiescing to her request when it violated store policy. In reality he should've told her they didn't offer that service. At which point she could either decide that she wanted to cancel her order or that she would simply accept whatever delivery person arrived.

Agreed.

 

[Gardener]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

This is correct.

I have no issue (from a business sense) with her refusing to allow a black person into her home.

However, Lowes is under no obligation to placate her request unless they've advertised the ability to choose one's own delivery person.

She absolutely has the right to deny any delivery person entry into her house. However, in doing so, she forfeits her ability to have Lowes deliver to her. She doesn't get to have her cake and eat it too.

Let's get things straight...her not wanting a black guy at her home does not necessarily make her a "racist". She might just be afraid of black people or whatever. Who knows? Maybe prejudice...but it's difficult to say without knowing what her background is. For the last 6 years, the term "racist" has been WAY overused and usually inappropriately. Racism means only 1 of 2 things. 1. The belief that one is superior or inferior based on race. 2. A policy based on race (ie -Affirmative Action).
So in a nutshell- Yes, the manager made the right decision to "bow" to the customer's request.

"She is not necessarily a racist". ??

In saying that, you are asking us to consider the .0000001% probability and ignore the 99.9999999% probability, and just because you are capable of defining the term racism in the very most stringent ways in order to let her off the hook for her attitudes, that does not distract from what actually occurred one bit.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Down the line, everyone was right. The manager would have been right to cede to the woman's wishes, and he would have been right not to. And of course corporate management was right to decide that the store's manager didn't represent the face of Lowe's. Free candy for everyone! That being said, as the driver I would have personally appreciated it if the manager had sided with me. From the tone of the article I get the sense that the manager didn't so much as give a nod to the driver that the customer was a racist bitch. If he had told me, "Hey, these people, ammiright? Here, have some overtime." then I would have been mollified.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I'm not denying it could be racism. The fact is that you do not know. You are assuming. You're really starting to appear more lib-minded than moderate. Libs scream racism at every opportunity.

You've drawn up the trifecta of denialism and revisionism and that's the only thing that is obvious here. If we go by YOUR idea of what MIGHT have happened, we end up with a person who is clearly a racist. That said, you have without a doubt demonstrated that not only do you not understand the definition of racism, you can't even use a layman's definition of it to create an argument where she looks less racist. In other words, the argument you made completely lends itself to the claim that she was a racist.

Here is a little test for ya...(assuming she's white) let's say she called Lowes and said she preferred black delivery guys over white. Would she be racist?

Using YOUR idea of what might have happened? Yes she would have been. If you create an idea about a race of people based on a single bad encounter with one individual of that race, you are a racist. Whether you're a member of that race or not is entirely irrelevant. :lol:

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Wait...haha...sorry, I just jumped in at the end of the thread. Are people seriously arguing that the customer wasn't racist?

 

[americanwoman]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I probably live in a far whiter place than you do, and not only am I allowed in the homes of white people, I even get to have beers with them! They're probably just using me for insurance though.

Haha insurance but yeah it's obvious when people make statements like that they are the ones that have no idea about the real world or the real hood I should say.

 

[Gardener]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Wait...haha...sorry, I just jumped in at the end of the thread. Are people seriously arguing that the customer wasn't racist?

It's the age old game of "If I can just place the bar high enough, I will be included among those who do not reach it"

It's the same game people play with antisemitism or homophobia, where people define the terms in such a way that nobody actually qualifies.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Haha insurance but yeah it's obvious when people make statements like that they are the ones that have no idea about the real world or the real hood I should say.

He blew his cover. That much is for damn sure.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Read the ABC News link. They talked to the woman, and she confirmed that she didn't want a black person delivering her stuff.

I can't imagine that Lowes has a policy of only hiring white drivers, nor sorting deliveries based on sending a driver acceptable to the customer. Therefore the store should not have accepted the customers order.

It is the customer who has the right of choice. She can purchase at the store hiring only drivers acceptable to her, or accept the driver the store provides. Or go pick up the order herself, and wipe off all the black fingerprints from the merchandise before loading it into her truck.

I'm not sure I buy into the story at all.

 

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

You've drawn up the trifecta of denialism and revisionism and that's the only thing that is obvious here. If we go by YOUR idea of what MIGHT have happened, we end up with a person who is clearly a racist. That said, you have without a doubt demonstrated that not only do you not understand the definition of racism, you can't even use a layman's definition of it to create an argument where she looks less racist. In other words, the argument you made completely lends itself to the claim that she was a racist.



Using YOUR idea of what might have happened? Yes she would have been. If you create an idea about a race of people based on a single bad encounter with one individual of that race, you are a racist. Whether you're a member of that race or not is entirely irrelevant. :lol:

Ok. Please try to keep up. Not liking people of a certain race in itself does not fit into the definition racism. It really is that simple. Some guys prefer Asian girls....racism? Of course not. You're really being silly now.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Are you familiar with The Civil Rights Act? Don't agree with it? So be it. But it is the law of the land and it applies to any protected group.

If you don't see the difference between a restaurant refusing to allow blacks a seat at their lunch counter, and a business refusing to allow their employees to be denigrated by prejudice? You aren't trying hard enough. You're making a poor comparison. Apples and oranges come to mind.

The civil rights act was fine and might be still, though, the circumstances have changed so that I am not really sure, that we would not do better to rework it. At the time it was a good idea and addressed a real problem. It probably is no longer formulated for today's requirements. But that is another issue and is only linked to the one at hand by a new law to be used against the religious that are protected under the First Amendment. This has happened, because the new law passed allows ssm. As these two work together, situations are created that discriminate against the religious. Government is forbidden to pass laws that create such situations. Maybe apples and oranges come to your mind and that is the reason you are not thinking this through. It might also be that you are partial to one cause and not to the other. But that is not a good reason to apply law selectively.

 

[americanwoman]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

He blew his cover. That much is for damn sure.

eh I've seen some bs from him before along the same lines but yeah cover is now blown open wide for sure.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

"She is not necessarily a racist". ??

That was left over text from the quote of "GunFora" that I was responding to and forgot to delete after segmenting off the portion I was initially responding to. You'll see that same text, word for word, in post #88 by GunFora. Notice the "[ /quote ]" at the end of that stretch of text in my post you quoted. Editing mistake on my part in forgetting to delete the extra portion of his post.

Strange that you caught wind of it at the tail end of my post, where it made no contextual sense...but completely missed the original posting of it. Happy to be able to help correct you though so you can address your comments to the correct individual.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

She made a deal. The deal was revoked and a new deal proposed that was not, what she wanted. A child might argue she could accept it. But a child has never had to deal with lawyers..

The deal was for delivery, not delivery by a specific type of person. Lowes would deliver, just not accept the specific request as to who delivers

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Ok. Please try to keep up. Not liking people of a certain race in itself does not fit into the definition racism. It really is that simple. Some guys prefer Asian girls....racism? Of course not. You're really being silly now.

Alright, this is the part where your position gets entirely destroyed. You suggested the possibility that she did all of this because she had a bad experience with a black person. If that is what happened, what she is doing is indeed racist as she is projecting the characteristics of that black person unto black people she doesn't know. That is a text book definition of what racism entails. Now that that argument of yours has done the opposite of what you intended, you've reverted to the absurd.

At no point in this conversation, have I claimed that all forms of racism are bad. I for example have a preference for Hispanic women of mixed racial heritage. In other words, I prefer the JLo's, the Selenas, and the Christina Aguileras. Whether I like it or not, my preference for those types of women creates a situation where, for me, they hold a superior level of attraction than white women, black women or even Asian women. A white guy who is attracted to black girls alone would engage in a similar form of racism whether he likes it or not. Those are not forms of racism which are negative. They're not anymore negative in their impact than people who chose to marry within their own nationality, gender or faith. In the grand scheme of things, these forms of racism do not have a negative impact on people.

That said, you've clearly demonstrated that your understanding of this subject is lower than zero. You should have stopped about 3 posts ago. Now you're looking desperate to try and get the last word.

 

[gdgyva]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Anyone who has ever worked with customers knows that customers are not always right.

the problem is....without customers, there is no business

so placating customers was a trend for a LONG time

you dont want to deal with him, fine....we'll get someone else

but most of that has changed.....most good managers wont allow it anymore

yes, the customers are important still....but an incident where you put your customer over your employee because of race, is likely to turn into something no one wants to deal with......so that one sale just isnt worth it......

it is amazing the faces people have shown me over the years, when i ask them to leave the premises.....and not to come back

it is that WHAT? kinda look.....you mean you dont want my business?

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

it is that WHAT? kinda look.....you mean you dont want my business?

And while that may piss off that particular customer, it can have a trickle effect of helping with others. Why? Because, good employees are more likely to stay at a place where their manager will back them up and keep them from being **** on simply out of a "customer is always right" mentality. Better employees generally leads to a better business atmosphere. And a better business atmosphere leads to happier customers. All for what is likely a very small financial hit, since by and large MOST people dealing in the public realm don't act like raging assholes.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

The deal was for delivery, not delivery by a specific type of person. Lowes would deliver, just not accept the specific request as to who delivers

I had understood the woman had communicated a specific type of person that should not make the delivery. If she didn't, how did the manager know?

What the company might do or not do in other cases is not at issue.

 

[ludin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

What protected classification under Public Accommodation laws are they discriminating against her on the basis of?

Furthermore, this can easily be argued as something other than discriminating. She demanded a service (Being able to select the race of the delivery person) that the store does not offer nor advertises to offer. The yare under ZERO obligation to fulfill such a request. If she demands that they fulfill it, then they are fully within their right to cancel the order on the basis that the customer is refusing delivery.

A business is not practicing discrimination if it refuses to provide a service that it in no way advertises that it offers.

tell that to companies like eharmony.

 

[reinoe]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

the problem is....without customers, there is no business

so placating customers was a trend for a LONG time

you dont want to deal with him, fine....we'll get someone else

but most of that has changed.....most good managers wont allow it anymore

yes, the customers are important still....but an incident where you put your customer over your employee because of race, is likely to turn into something no one wants to deal with......so that one sale just isnt worth it......

it is amazing the faces people have shown me over the years, when i ask them to leave the premises.....and not to come back

it is that WHAT? kinda look.....you mean you dont want my business?

You're talking about from a service perspective. Look at it from a factual standpoint. There are things that cannot be done because they are impossible, illegal, or just damn impractical. Then it becomes a matter of how much are you willing to bend over backwards from some idiot who will take up more resources and are less likely to appreciate it.