Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Driver

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

You kinda did though by stating you thought the manager did the right thing by bowing to the customers request. If you thought that was the right thing to do. So he did the right thing AND he should be fired for doing the right thing? How does that work exactly...

I guess a better way of stating it is that the woman wasn't wrong in her request. He violated policy that IMHO is wrong, but it's their right to create any policy they wish (as long as big brother lets them).

In order to believe that you then must ignore history from 1595 (the first slaves brought to Spanish America) to 1863 which was the emancipation proclamation, to 1964 during the civil rights act. While the strict view of vocabulary definition may not state race could be part of bigotry and prejudice, discrimination certainly would, so if we're going to play word games --- bigotry and prejudice CAN be used in context of race and discrimination IS used in the context of race. Given the context of this story and the situation race was 100% front and center in the context of what happened as well as the manager being fired.

Discrimination is another one that is not always about race, but people seem to think it's a synonym of racism. It's not. It's not necessarily a bad word. Everyone discriminates.
Of course race is 100% front and center of the story. It always is. The media thrives on it. "Word games" would be making up your own definition of words. I don't do that. I try to use words with their true meaning.

 

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

That is one of the stupidest excuses for racism I've seen for a long time. How could the racist old bat simply be intolerant of the drivers opinions, he was delivering, not debating, and she was intolerant of his skin colour. THAT's racism!

Do you know her? How do you know she simply isn't afraid of black men? I know..strange, but possible. Like Obama's grandmother was a "typical white person" (afraid of black people). She MAY BE racist scum. I don't know. I'm just saying that there is no evidence of that. Not wanting a person of a certain color in her home is not racism by definition. If she said she didn't want some dirty low-life Ni&&er in her home, that would be racist. Understand?

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

I guess a better way of stating it is that the woman wasn't wrong in her request. He violated policy that IMHO is wrong, but it's their right to create any policy they wish (as long as big brother lets them).

Discrimination is another one that is not always about race, but people seem to think it's a synonym of racism. It's not. It's not necessarily a bad word. Everyone discriminates.
Of course race is 100% front and center of the story. It always is. The media thrives on it. "Word games" would be making up your own definition of words. I don't do that. I try to use words with their true meaning.

Your post:

- She wasn't wrong to be a complete racist in the 21st century.
- It's not always about race, even though this entire incident was about race.
- Media boogieman.

Congratulations, you've accomplished the Trifecta of Denialism and Revisionism.

 

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Your post:

- She wasn't wrong to be a complete racist in the 21st century.
- It's not always about race, even though this entire incident was about race.
- Media boogieman.

Congratulations, you've accomplished the Trifecta of Denialism and Revisionism.

-Never said it.
-Being about race is not necessarily racism. "Racism" already has a definition. You're not allowed to redefine it to suit your needs.
-Media love race-related issues.

 

[faithful_servant]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Lowe's Manager Bows to Request After Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Driver | Mother Jones



So who was right? The Lowe's manager who bowed to the racist customer? Or Lowe's corporate, who fired the manager?

Both were wrong. The manager should have never bowed to the dumb cow, but Lowes shouldn't have fired him for it. Demoting him to a dept. mgr. position in another store and having him start from scratch on the management track would have been a far more reasonable response. But it is their company and they can handle this as they see fit, but my opinion is that they handled it poorly.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

-Never said it.

I guess a better way of stating it is that the woman wasn't wrong in her request.

You want to try again?

-Being about race is not necessarily racism. "Racism" already has a definition. You're not allowed to redefine it to suit your needs.

You do realize that she didn't want black drivers right? In other words, she preferred white drivers. That is racism. Please, stop this. It's going to be very embarrassing for you.

-Media love race-related issues.

This was race related before the media got a hold of it. You do realize this right?

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

You've never been in retail, have you?

I worked in retail. Our manager was adamant with us; if a customer began to get belligerent with us, we were to go straight to the manager and they would ask the customer to leave. Customer Service doesn't mean letting the customer treat your employees in an abusive fashion...at least it doesn't mean that to everyone manager in the service industry. Thankfully.

 

[americanwoman]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

People come in to homes to do X or Y and then scope them out for possible robbery targets. If all you white do-gooders are so upset with this get in your car and drive in the hood and see what happens to you. Any black living in an all black neighborhood would warn you not to do it. Why? Because blacks are racists, meaning they don't prefer your color in their part of town much like whites don't want blacks in their homes, also racist. It is called the truth despite liberal lies about how peace and harmony rule the country. Hatred, mistrust and paranoia exist and always will for generations to come. Don't like it? Too bad. Before you get on your high horse of righteousness tell me what gun sales are this years compared to the past. Tell what the prison population is compared to the past. Things are getting better? Blacks can't even sit in their own homes without getting shot to death as we have all witnessed. Stupid whites still think blacks should forget about slavery and look to the future but somehow that just does not set well, does it?

Lmfao! I look white and I drive and visit people who live in "the hood" all the time. Deep in there too and guess what - nothing happens to me, weird huh? Also nowhere in da hoodlol is it all black really I see and know lots of white people and Hispanics who live in that part of town.ooooh it's so scary! You'd probably be scared to come down to my barrio too even though it's mostly families and quite diverse.

 

[gdgyva]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Long before i got into the management side, i sold cars for a couple of years (think early 80's time frame)

We would have customers come in.....and some of them wouldnt deal with white people, black people, or asian people

And we had all three types working on the sales floor

There are bigots in every color all over the place....and sometimes you find them in the strangest places

When we had a customer say that they would rather have "someone" else help them, the managers dealt with it

And yes, on more than one occasion, they coalesced and made the change for the customer

Was it right to do so? no....but the "customer is always right" policy took me by surprise back then

Twice over those years, that someone that was changed was me.....i lost the chance to make the sale, because the customer didnt want to deal with a white man

We dont allow that in any of the stores now. We dont "need" your business that badly. Someone down the street may, but we wont.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

actually it does. public accommodation laws prohibit them from discriminating against her.

What protected classification under Public Accommodation laws are they discriminating against her on the basis of?

Furthermore, this can easily be argued as something other than discriminating. She demanded a service (Being able to select the race of the delivery person) that the store does not offer nor advertises to offer. The yare under ZERO obligation to fulfill such a request. If she demands that they fulfill it, then they are fully within their right to cancel the order on the basis that the customer is refusing delivery.

A business is not practicing discrimination if it refuses to provide a service that it in no way advertises that it offers.

 

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

You want to try again?



You do realize that she didn't want black drivers right? In other words, she preferred white drivers. That is racism. Please, stop this. It's going to be very embarrassing for you.



This was race related before the media got a hold of it. You do realize this right?

Yes. It was race related before the media got a hold of it. Clearly it's race related...but unless you're the Thought Police, you don't know the REASON she didn't want black delivery guys. That is my point. Maybe she had a bad encounter at some point in her life with a black guy. Maybe she likes looking at sweaty white guys more. Who the hell knows? If you have the need to point fingers...go for it.
Embarrassing for me? LOL yeah..ok. You don't understand the definition of "racism" and I should be embarrassed? Cute.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

If the baker may do the applicable same, I am all with you. But as long as the lady can be refused service, while the baker must participate in what he considers sinful acts, we are being hypocrits and worse still, we are being inconsistent.

she is not being refused service. She is getting service it would be up to her to accept it or not.

She asked for delivery and HD would provide it.

The baker customer wanted service but the baker refused bug difference

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

If the baker may do the applicable same, I am all with you.

Except it's not the same.

In the case of the baker, the individuals were asking for a service that the business publicly made known they provide ---- baking cakes for a wedding.

In the case of the delivery, the individual was asking for a service that the business did not indicate they provide ---- the ability to choose the race of one's delivery person.

One instance is a person asking for a service the business purports to perform and being turned down because of (let's say a...) character trait.

One instance is a person asking for a service the business in no way suggests they will perform and being turned down because their request is not a service they provide.

If the gay couple came in and asked for a wedding cake AND demanded that said cake be baked by a gay person, then the bakery would have every right to say "no". Because in that instance the gay couple is demanding a service (the ability to select the sexual orientation of the baker) that is not actually offered by the bakery.

Similarly, if the Lowes just refused to deliver this woman's product from the start, by ANY employee, simply because they found out she's a racist and they don't want to deal with her after she already bought their product, that'd also be a problem.

But the two situations are not the same.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Lmfao! I look white and I drive and visit people who live in "the hood" all the time. Deep in there too and guess what - nothing happens to me, weird huh? Also nowhere in da hoodlol is it all black really I see and know lots of white people and Hispanics who live in that part of town.ooooh it's so scary! You'd probably be scared to come down to my barrio too even though it's mostly families and quite diverse.

I probably live in a far whiter place than you do, and not only am I allowed in the homes of white people, I even get to have beers with them! They're probably just using me for insurance though.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Yes. It was race related before the media got a hold of it. Clearly it's race related..

Stop right there. It's not just race related, it was a incident where somebody clearly showed a preference for whites over blacks and tried to impose that preference on others. THAT IS RACISM. If such a thing a thing were done in government, it would be in the same spirit as Jim Crowe laws which were racist.

Now, there is no need to use any silly catch phrases like: "thought police" because her actions fit well within the definition of racism. If it was as you say and she had a bad encounter at some point in her life with a black guy, she, without knowing who her driver would be, associated the characteristics of that black person to other people of their race. Those characteristics made them an inferior choice even though she had no idea who her driver would be. Again, this fits entirely within the definition of racism which is:

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Are you embarrassed yet? Because you're really displaying a complete ignorance of what the word racism means. I don't doubt that it's on purpose, it's just funny watching you try to deny that this was racist. If you want, I can simplify this for you.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

she is not being refused service. She is getting service it would be up to her to accept it or not.

She asked for delivery and HD would provide it.

The baker customer wanted service but the baker refused bug difference

She made a deal. The deal was revoked and a new deal proposed that was not, what she wanted. A child might argue she could accept it. But a child has never had to deal with lawyers..

 

[reinoe]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

You've never been in retail, have you?

Anyone who has ever worked with customers knows that customers are not always right.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

But that is not the question. The question is that the law is faulty and bad for the nation..

That absolutely IS the question.

The fact that one is against the law and one isn't means that these situations are NOT the same, and that it's not unreasonable for people to feel differently about them both.

Just because one disagree's with a law doesn't mean that law doesn't exist. I disagree with the idea that smoking pot in one's home is illegal; that doesn't mean I feel like someone shouldn't be subject to legal action if caught doing it because the reality is it IS against the law.

 

[joG]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

That's a subject for another thread. Fortunately one of the Civil Rights Act's protected classes is NOT "jerks."

It is a matter for any thread about declined service by a company. If you are going to force people to act against their conscience, you have to ask them to do so in all cases. The last thing we want in a country is selective application of law. That is fascist, at least by definition.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

She made a deal.

Said deal was outside of company policy. As such, the individual making the deal was acting outside the scope of his authority. As such, the company is under no obligation to uphold said deal.

 

[fmw]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Were I the manager I would have said that we would not make the delivery at her request and she could pick up her order at the store.

 

[reinoe]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

According to the poll results so far 86.36% of all respondents don't agree with the assessment that the customer is always right.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

It is a matter for any thread about declined service by a company. If you are going to force people to act against their conscience, you have to ask them to do so in all cases. The last thing we want in a country is selective application of law. That is fascist, at least by definition.

Disagree entirely.

Are you in favor of disallowing 5 year olds from voting in federal elections? Are you in favor of women being entered into selective service with the potential of being drafted into front line combat roles? Are you in favor of a 16 year old being able to sue for age discrimination, or on the flip side do you instead support the ability of an employer to fire someone simply because they're 52 years old?

Since the very days of our founding the government has been allowed to have selective application of the law. The caveat being that there are certain levels of importance and relevance that the government must show to justify such selective enforcement.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

The customer has the right to decide who she wants to let into her home.

This is correct.

I have no issue (from a business sense) with her refusing to allow a black person into her home.

However, Lowes is under no obligation to placate her request unless they've advertised the ability to choose one's own delivery person.

She absolutely has the right to deny any delivery person entry into her house. However, in doing so, she forfeits her ability to have Lowes deliver to her. She doesn't get to have her cake and eat it too.

Let's get things straight...her not wanting a black guy at her home does not necessarily make her a "racist". She might just be afraid of black people or whatever. Who knows? Maybe prejudice...but it's difficult to say without knowing what her background is. For the last 6 years, the term "racist" has been WAY overused and usually inappropriately. Racism means only 1 of 2 things. 1. The belief that one is superior or inferior based on race. 2. A policy based on race (ie -Affirmative Action).
So in a nutshell- Yes, the manager made the right decision to "bow" to the customer's request.[/QUOTE]

 

[GunFora]

Re: Lowe's Manager Bows to Request after Racist Customer Refuses Black Delivery Drive

Stop right there. It's not just race related, it was a incident where somebody clearly showed a preference for whites over blacks and tried to impose that preference on others. THAT IS RACISM. If such a thing a thing were done in government, it would be in the same spirit as Jim Crowe laws which were racist.

Now, there is no need to use any silly catch phrases like: "thought police" because her actions fit well within the definition of racism. If it was as you say and she had a bad encounter at some point in her life with a black guy, she, without knowing who her driver would be, associated the characteristics of that black person to other people of their race. Those characteristics made them an inferior choice even though she had no idea who her driver would be. Again, this fits entirely within the definition of racism which is:



Are you embarrassed yet? Because you're really displaying a complete ignorance of what the word racism means. I don't doubt that it's on purpose, it's just funny watching you try to deny that this was racist. If you want, I can simplify this for you.

I'm not denying it could be racism. The fact is that you do not know. You are assuming. You're really starting to appear more lib-minded than moderate. Libs scream racism at every opportunity. Here is a little test for ya...(assuming she's white) let's say she called Lowes and said she preferred black delivery guys over white. Would she be racist?