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Liam Fox defends call for ban of Medal of Honor game

kaya'08

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Britain's Defence Secretary Liam Fox has defended his comments calling on retailers to ban the forthcoming Medal of Honor video game from their stores.

On Sunday, Mr Fox said he was "disgusted" by the game, which allows players to adopt the role of the Taliban in the Afghan war.

The game's publishers Electronic Arts said the minister had portrayed parts of the game inaccurately.

The government said Dr Fox was expressing a "personal view".

BBC News - Liam Fox defends call for ban of Medal of Honor game

Quiet frankly, i agree with him. EA is playing a dangerous game (excuse the pun).
 

Jetboogieman

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I understand you have personal feelings involved bro.

But at the end of the day...

"It's just a game".

I don't see this being any more or less shocking then the airport scene from CODMW2
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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Where was all the bitching when I could play as the Nazis in a million WWII games?
 

kaya'08

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I understand you have personal feelings involved bro.

But at the end of the day...

"It's just a game".

I don't see this being any more or less shocking then the airport scene from CODMW2

To be honest with you, when i say i agree with Fox, i agree in the sense that it is insensitive. I know it's just a game but its quiet distasteful. The thing with the airport scene is, that has no relevance to current modern day conflict. In COD, it is well known you can play terrorists (on multiplayer anyway), but MoH takes it to a new level by introducing a Taliban storyline. But being the free market guy i am, the game developers have a right to publish and create this kind of storyline and game.
 
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Jetboogieman

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To be honest with you, when i say i agree with Fox, i agree in the sense that it is insensitive. I know it's just a game but its quiet distasteful. The thing with the airport scene is, that has no relevance to current modern day conflict. In COD, it is well known you can play terrorists (on multiplayer anyway), but MoH takes it to a new level by introducing a Taliban storyline.

Good point.

But being the free market guy i am, the game developers have a right to publish and create this kind of storyline and game.

I'd like to see what the context of it is. If I purposefully get pwned by an RAF air strike at the end, I'll be happy with it ;)
 

Guy Incognito

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What games, for example?

As I recall the Command and Conquer series has a Soviet campaign. There are plenty of games that allow one to play as a bad guy.
 

kaya'08

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As I recall the Command and Conquer series has a Soviet campaign. There are plenty of games that allow one to play as a bad guy.

With all due respect C&C is a strategy game. COD/MoH is a full immersive first person storyline campaign. The experience is far more personal and in those regards, realistic.

Secondly, what's wrong with the soviets? They where commo's, sure, and they did bad things like most commo regimes do. But they weren't no Nazis and they sure as hell weren't terrorists.
 
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Guy Incognito

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With all due respect C&C is a strategy game. COD/MoH is a full immersive first person storyline campaign.

I don't really see a meaningful distinction there. Strategy games have storylines too, which can be just as immersive. C&C Red Alert even had FMV of an actor playing Lenin who assigned the missions, IIRC. There are plenty of games out there that don't exactly live up to our better angels, is my point.
 
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kaya'08

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I don't really see a meaningful distinction there. Strategy games have storylines too, which can be just as immersive. C&C Red Alert even had FMV of an actor playing Lenin who assigned the missions, IIRC. There are plenty of games out there that don't exactly live up to our better angels, is my point.

The C&C storyline is nowhere near as realistic on a personal level as first person shooters. Even graphically they leave room to have a far less profound effect on the player. Would you not agree? I still dont see what's wrong with a soviet campaign. IMO it isn't comparable to a terrorist storyline aimed at attacking NATO soldiers.
 

Guy Incognito

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The C&C storyline is nowhere near as realistic on a personal level as first person shooters. Even graphically they leave room to have a far less profound effect on the player. Would you not agree?

I disagree, I think you're drawing a mistaken conclusion here. I don't really find first person shooters all that realistic, and certainly not any more so than any other genre of game. And to see how truly immersed people can be in a strategy game, just take a look at the popularity of Starcraft in South Korea.

I still dont see what's wrong with a soviet campaign. IMO it isn't comparable to a terrorist storyline aimed at attacking NATO soldiers.

So how is that different than playing soviets attacking NATO soldiers? Or playing aliens attacking space marines, for that matter? How about Grand Theft Auto? Bottom line is they are just video games, they aren't real. It's a game, it's not some form of brainwashing.

This seems like it's dovetailing into the larger debate of whether video games cause violence. There's really no evidence to support this proposition.
 
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kaya'08

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I disagree, I think you're drawing a mistaken conclusion here. I don't really find first person shooters all that realistic, and certainly not any more so than any other genre of game. And to see how truly immersed people can be in a strategy game, just take a look at the popularity of Starcraft in South Korea.

You do not think FPS storyline's have a far more personal impact? Because i can wager that is the case for many people, because that is the very nature of the genre first person. To be able to play a terrorist individual, see the conflict through there eye's, and target other troops through means of suicide and so on. Strategic games involve placing units in real time and fighting in a strategy environment. It's very impersonal imo.

So how is that different than playing soviets attacking NATO soldiers? Or playing aliens attacking space marines, for that matter? How about Grand Theft Auto? Bottom line is they are just video games, they aren't real. It's a game, it's not some form of brainwashing.

I do not advocate it's removal, and i know its a game. But it is still tasteless. Considering your suggestions have no relevance to past or modern day conflict (Soviets attacking the US/NATO directly or space marines invading us) it is not a valid argument. As for GTA, the entire concept of the game is fictious (and IMO quiet unrealistic in comparison with these games). Unfortunately Afghanistan is real, our war there is real and so is the Taliban. I'm sure 10 year's down the line creating this sort of game wouldn't be so controversial, but because this conflict is very much a part of our modern life as Westerners, it's a different story.

This seems like it's dovetailing into the larger debate of whether video games cause violence. There's really no evidence to support this proposition.

My argument is merely the fact that it is tasteless and insensitive to our soldiers and community and that game developers should take more care when running through mine fields.
 
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Harry Guerrilla

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The game's publishers Electronic Arts said the minister had portrayed parts of the game inaccurately.

The government said Dr Fox was expressing a "personal view".

BBC News - Liam Fox defends call for ban of Medal of Honor game

Quiet frankly, i agree with him. EA is playing a dangerous game (excuse the pun).

Tasteless games tend to be the most fun.

All forms of GTA, that I've played, are a trip.
Doing drive bys on a bicycle is priceless.
 

Bereal

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With all due respect C&C is a strategy game. COD/MoH is a full immersive first person storyline campaign. The experience is far more personal and in those regards, realistic.

Secondly, what's wrong with the soviets? They where commo's, sure, and they did bad things like most commo regimes do. But they weren't no Nazis and they sure as hell weren't terrorists.

At the time, they were thought of as that bad. It's all just hype. Anyway, you can play as Afghan rebel dudes wearing bandanas and crap on MWII right now. Don't tell me those are security force guys... Tango Sucka! lol
 

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I dont really see anything wrong with the game or why having a Taliban storyline is any worse than having any other kind of storyline.

BF2 had you playing as Chechen rebels and insurgents from Unspecifiedistan. Just Cause had you aiding drug cartels and South American rebel groups.

Are they worried this might generate sympathy for the Taliban? I dont think that's a well-founded worry if that's the case
 

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With all due respect C&C is a strategy game. COD/MoH is a full immersive first person storyline campaign. The experience is far more personal and in those regards, realistic.

Secondly, what's wrong with the soviets? They where commo's, sure, and they did bad things like most commo regimes do. But they weren't no Nazis and they sure as hell weren't terrorists.

You don't know history do you? How many Soviets died at the hands of their Gov't? I'll give you a hint, it's higher then the number of Jews Hitler killed.

On Topic, I have no desire to play a game that places you as "the Taliban".

MOH series sucks anyhoots.
 

Hoplite

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On Topic, I have no desire to play a game that places you as "the Taliban".
Just so we're clear, I'm not criticizing you for your point of view, but I have to ask why.

MOH has decent gameplay, but they went down a serious WTF road with Airborne. Since when do the Nazis have a huge doom fortress with flakk cannons and elite stormtroopers that HAND WIELD MG42 machine guns?
 
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Jucon

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Just so we're clear, I'm not criticizing you for your point of view, but I have to ask why.

MOH has decent gameplay, but they went down a serious WTF road with Airborne. Since when do the Nazis have a huge doom fortress with flakk cannons and elite stormtroopers that HAND WIELD MG42 machine guns?

True that. But I really liked the way you aimed. Being able to aim down the sight and lean in certain directions. Plus dropping in anywhere you wanted was cool too. I mainly HATED how you could be 10 stories above an enemy AI with them shooting at one of your AI teammates, but the moment they have a line of sight on you they would ALWAYS shoot at you no matter what. It really ruined the game for me.
 

Manc Skipper

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Anyone can tell from the misspelling of "Honour" that it's not going to be about British troops, even if the battles were set in areas where only British forces were operating. No change there then.
 

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If any of have played the Ukranian game, Stalker, Shadow of Chernobyl, Clear Sky, or Call of Pripyat, in the second game of the series, Clear Sky, it is possible to play as different factions, as Freedom, Duty, Stalker, or even Bandit, and the Bandit clan is the worse, going around murdering everyone.Some of the factions are mortal enemies to other factions, like Freedom and Duty followers are enemies. Of course, you can play it safe, and be neutral to all, except Bandits and soldiers, who are constantly your enemies. Now, in the last game, Call of Pripyat, once again you become neutral to all, even Bandits.

There is another game, the name escapes me at the moment, but you play in a scenario that supposes that World War I never ended. You play a professional soldier in a battle that is wagered on by the rich. In this game are several instances, where you are captured and escape, your only weapon, a sword. In this part, you must murder unarmed scientists because if you don't they will alert the military authorities, and you will be killed. I finally gave up playing the game in disgust. I gave it to my brother-in-law. Yeah, it's only a game, but there are parts of a game that jar my sense of decency.
 

kaya'08

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You don't know history do you? How many Soviets died at the hands of their Gov't? I'll give you a hint, it's higher then the number of Jews Hitler killed.

On Topic, I have no desire to play a game that places you as "the Taliban".

MOH series sucks anyhoots.

Tru dat. MoH has never appealed to me. I know the Soviets where bad....so if they released a game when you are a soviet soldier and the whole point is to rape Russian families and kill children and kidnap them then yes, i would count it as rather tasteless. However the depiction of the Soviets in COD 1/2 for example are largely positive due to there actions against Nazi dominance, although as i said, this issue with the Taliban in helmand is an ongoing conflict right now, as we speak. It doesn't create sympathies for the Taliban and there is no evidence to suggest it influences others, however, depicting there struggle in a storyline, if anything, only helps glorifies them. Well put it this way, it doesn't shed a bad light on them.
 
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kaya'08

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I dont really see anything wrong with the game or why having a Taliban storyline is any worse than having any other kind of storyline.

BF2 had you playing as Chechen rebels and insurgents from Unspecifiedistan. Just Cause had you aiding drug cartels and South American rebel groups.

Are they worried this might generate sympathy for the Taliban? I dont think that's a well-founded worry if that's the case

Just Cause has never been based off true events in a nation that exists. It is entirely fictious. On the other hand playing as Nazi's to help the holocaust or perhaps be in a bunker shooting and massacring allied soldiers on D-Day as they land on the shores of Normandy, surely, is tasteless? It's why IM against it, anyway.
 
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Apocalypse

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Where was all the bitching when I could play as the Nazis in a million WWII games?

Most of those games are strategy games.
Strategy games mostly do not involve a deep storyline and a realist theme, and hence do not raise any awkward feelings, such as the feelings one had when playing the terrorist in the COD:MW2 airport scene.
 

kaya'08

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Most of those games are strategy games.
Strategy games mostly do not involve a deep storyline and a realist theme, and hence do not raise any awkward feelings, such as the feelings one had when playing the terrorist in the COD:MW2 airport scene.

Exactly. Hence the purpose of First Person Shooter. If there was no significance to seeing something from somebody else's eyes, well, it wouldn't be a very relevant format.
 

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The game's publishers Electronic Arts said the minister had portrayed parts of the game inaccurately.

The government said Dr Fox was expressing a "personal view".

BBC News - Liam Fox defends call for ban of Medal of Honor game

Quiet frankly, i agree with him. EA is playing a dangerous game (excuse the pun).

EA is ****. Who still buys crap from that company anyway :shrug:

But let the developers do what they wish as long as they obviously meet the standards. People need to quit giving it free publicity. I didn't know about this game until Liam opened his mouth and started whining about it.
 
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