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How did the redneck come to represent America abroad?

Goshin

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What I dont know about New York could fill several national libaries, but that doesnt change that I know the statue of liberty is there.


Thats pritty much a common excuse by now.

There arent many statues of famed and successful US generals who massacred native Americans are there?

The US has a national concience and a sence of historic responsibility, but the south doesnt.



Oh I am sure that they built a state for him during a time when blacks were lynched and segregated because of that speech.

Not....

"The Indians are a race of savagry ho believe in an ill and savage religion" - Winston Churchill.

With many historical figures their personal beliefs and actions are not as important to greater modern society than their legacy.

Even if that legacy is not what the person intended it to be.



What I dont know about the South could fill a libary, what I know about it is enought to conclude that is not a decent place and it`s inhabitans are by in large an indecent people.

How come news stories about racism, hate crimes and historic revisionism always come from the South?

Is it because the entire world doesnt understand the South or because the South uses that line as an excuse for being in contempt with modernety since 1864?




Your views on the South are just as ignorant, unfounded and hateful as the views of any other bigot about a culture or people of which he has no experience.



You just picked a "safe" target.... southern rednecks... exhibiting a bully-like cowardly tendency to seek out someone they can abuse which won't result in the kind of public censure that would follow if you attacked, say blacks or Jews or something.


Don't know why I bother responding to such drivel, frankly.
 

The German

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I have traveled most of the US and Boston is by far the most racist place I have ever lived. How does that square with what you think you know about the US.

And I know a monster with tentacles and teeth made of ice cream that lives in Munich.

Your personal expirience is irrelevant to me.

You might be a person who finds big city life and it`s massive amount of oppertunities and offers disgusting because you prefer living in a field in the middle of nowhere where you have to drive 20 miles to buy milk.

I know what I know of Boston not from having visited it, but from knowing that it produced some of the best musicians, actors, writers and artists in general.

From reading articles on what it has to offer to visitors in terms of culture, nightlife and living.

And addmitedly from a very close friend and her personal expiriences.

I will not find 10 news items a month about people tying a black man to a pick up and then dragging him through the countryside until he dies a painfull slow death, coming out of Boston or the entire New England erea.
 

The German

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Your views on the South are just as ignorant, unfounded and hateful as the views of any other bigot about a culture or people of which he has no experience.

So I am biggoted for bing dismissive of a society that celebrates a culture and legacy of bigotry, racism, single mindedness and occasionaly even incest?

You just picked a "safe" target.... southern rednecks... exhibiting a bully-like cowardly tendency to seek out someone they can abuse which won't result in the kind of public censure that would follow if you attacked, say blacks or Jews or something.

No.

I am just as critical of societies that stone women to death for not wearing a vail like Iran, societies in which families abort female fetuses because women are low rated like China, a culture of celebrating criminality as a virtue via music black thugh culture, societies that think raping somone will cure them of homosexuality (South Africa), societies that cut off the labia of a womans vagina because they see female sexuality as impure (Egypt).

I dont descriminate amongst foolish, perverted and biggoted cultural and social practices. I discriminate all of them equaly.

Don't know why I bother responding to such drivel, frankly.

Then dont. Goodbye.

I`ll just add. I have never met a person or saw a Southern politician/public figure from the South who even admited that there was something very wrong with what happend in that regions history.

But in comparison, every German citizen will tell you that there is no German identety without the shame of Auschwitz.
 

Reformedfindlay

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Because we are essentially taught from our youth that America's the only truly free and civilized country in the world, that we have the best of everything, that we can only be happy here - hence the great fallacy of "American exceptionalism". That, and we seem to value, even treasure, ignorance of the rest of the world, as if the rest of the world doesn't matter. I remember a shipmate of mine who talked about how when he was in the Army, he and his buddies went to a restaurant somewhere overseas. The waitress asked them, "What do Americans call America?" and he replied, "The World." And he laughed about how insulted the waitress was at his answer.

That, and look at how many Americans (particularly among conservatives) seem to think that empathy for those who are not American (except for Israel) is not a beneficial trait, but something to be ignored. As a nation we've forgotten the value of humility and empathy for those who are not American.

And yet, we are the most giving nation of all.

We do bad, but we do good.

:shrug:

What do we do most of all though? Businessmen. The premise of the OP is stupid. Only an ignoramus would see America in such a light. The more intellectual people around the world would see the USA as a nation of opportunistic businessmen. That can be a good thing, but many times it can be a bad thing.
 

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Been reading several social studies again on stereotypes mainly.

I firmly believe that most stereotypes are grounded in truth and have some justification to them. That they are the result of perception and expirience by peoples and not just the result of a media portrait of peoples and cultures. Of course such cultural presentations do contribute to a stereotype, but I`d argue that the personal expiriences of peoples and the actual situation in society contributes more. And because of that, stereotypes do not just have more truth to them than some would say, they are also subject to change as society changes.

The stereotype of the Black thugh exists because of the gang and criminal culture within the poor black community.
The Southern stereotype exists because of the history and culture of the South.
Germans are seen as ruthless and cruel because our ancestors burned half the world.
British are seen as arrogant because within their culture is a post colonial sentiment of looking down on other cultures.

I mention this and the study because I had an argument with a friend over the subject. And he asked "Why is the stereotype of the American outside of America the Southern redneck?"
He sent me several studies to prove his point and I didnt have anything to counter that. Indeed the prevailing stereotype of the average American is that of the Southern redneck.

So how could this have happend?

This has been a perception of Americans since the colonial days. Americans were always thought to be backward woodsmen etc. by their European counterparts. Of course, Americans sort of played into that perception and even relished in their plainness relative to their European counterparts who they viewed as corrupted by the excesses of monarchy in the European centers of power.

Americans were fortunate, George Washington declared in 1796, in being so "detached and distant" from "the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humour, or caprice".
Linda Colley: With Europe and America, the feeling is always mutual | Comment is free | The Guardian

Jefferson even greeted foreign diplomats in slippers and plain clothes, falling intentionally into the stereotype of even that time. Presidents Are People Too!

As in those days, still today, Americans tend to take pride in their relative uncomplicated-ness. And Europeans continue to view Americans as unsophisticated backwoods people. The perceptions are both true and false at the same time.
 

The German

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This has been a perception of Americans since the colonial days. Americans were always thought to be backward woodsmen etc. by their European counterparts. Of course, Americans sort of played into that perception and even relished in their plainness relative to their European counterparts who they viewed as corrupted by the excesses of monarchy in the European centers of power.

Linda Colley: With Europe and America, the feeling is always mutual | Comment is free | The Guardian

Jefferson even greeted foreign diplomats in slippers and plain clothes, falling intentionally into the stereotype of even that time. Presidents Are People Too!

As in those days, still today, Americans tend to take pride in their relative uncomplicated-ness. And Europeans continue to view Americans as unsophisticated backwoods people. The perceptions are both true and false at the same time.

Well I would disagree with that.

As someone else mentioned a previous US stereotype was one of the Hawai shirt wearing lost tourist.

I guess the US stereotype changed to the clueless dumb redneck because of the Bush administration and how it presented America to the world.

Before 1860 the prevailing stereotype of Germans was they they were romantic, dreamish, naiv, liberal and pussies.

Then Bismarck invaded Denmark, Austria, France and crushed 4 Polish rebellions. And Kaiser Willhelm turned out to be a militaristic jerk who in the end set the continent ablaze.

And the perceptions changed drasticaly.

Before 1870 the French were seen as dangerously militaristic, ruthless, brutal and cold and as the greatest threat to peace in Europe.
 

SMTA

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I`d say bad marketing.

German is starting to change from "ruthless, cold and heartless" to "the people who are never late for work" and "make machines that always work".

Southern stereotypes arent changing cause the South hasnt and isnt chaning.

And incest, racism and biggotry isnt exactly something with which one could market themselves in a positive way.

Hitler certainly tried his best with that marketing.

So much for that incestous 'master race'.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Well I would disagree with that.

As someone else mentioned a previous US stereotype was one of the Hawai shirt wearing lost tourist.

I guess the US stereotype changed to the clueless dumb redneck because of the Bush administration and how it presented America to the world.

Before 1860 the prevailing stereotype of Germans was they they were romantic, dreamish, naiv, liberal and pussies.

Then Bismarck invaded Denmark, Austria, France and crushed 4 Polish rebellions. And Kaiser Willhelm turned out to be a militaristic jerk who in the end set the continent ablaze.

And the perceptions changed drasticaly.

Before 1870 the French were seen as dangerously militaristic, ruthless, brutal and cold and as the greatest threat to peace in Europe.

Well the French are militaristic and have a national sense of pride. I would argue them as the strongest military in Western Europe. And when we told then to sign a nuclear non proliferation clause they told us to sit and spin and then built their own bomb
 

EMNofSeattle

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Well I would disagree with that.

As someone else mentioned a previous US stereotype was one of the Hawai shirt wearing lost tourist.

I guess the US stereotype changed to the clueless dumb redneck because of the Bush administration and how it presented America to the world.
Which is stupid because bush was born in New England and Ivy League educated.

The Texas accent and southern personality is all an act...
 

SBu

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Well I would disagree with that.

As someone else mentioned a previous US stereotype was one of the Hawai shirt wearing lost tourist.

I guess the US stereotype changed to the clueless dumb redneck because of the Bush administration and how it presented America to the world.

Before 1860 the prevailing stereotype of Germans was they they were romantic, dreamish, naiv, liberal and pussies.

Then Bismarck invaded Denmark, Austria, France and crushed 4 Polish rebellions. And Kaiser Willhelm turned out to be a militaristic jerk who in the end set the continent ablaze.

And the perceptions changed drasticaly.

Before 1870 the French were seen as dangerously militaristic, ruthless, brutal and cold and as the greatest threat to peace in Europe.

I'm sure that had something to do with it. The the common theme overall seems to be backward/unsophisticated from the European prospective. Unless there is something that contradicts that in the perceptions you stated. They seem to be different mediums to project the same perception.

You say that the German stereotype changed in the mid1800s to mid 1900s from artsy liberals (which is my perception) to militaristic. At the end of the day, however, in WW2 they did try to steal all of Europe's art so....maybe the original perception wasn't too far off. Nothing is quite so ruthless and cold as a pissed off artsy liberal you see...

*please don't take this too seriously
 

The German

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Which is stupid because bush was born in New England and Ivy League educated.

The Texas accent and southern personality is all an act...

Guess I am wrong then.
 

The German

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I'm sure that had something to do with it. The the common theme overall seems to be backward/unsophisticated from the European prospective. Unless there is something that contradicts that in the perceptions you stated. They seem to be different mediums to project the same perception.

You say that the German stereotype changed in the mid1800s to mid 1900s from artsy liberals (which is my perception) to militaristic. At the end of the day, however, in WW2 they did try to steal all of Europe's art so....maybe the original perception wasn't too far off. Nothing is quite so ruthless and cold as a pissed off artsy liberal you see...

*please don't take this too seriously

I wont.

The idea that Europeans see Americans as inherently backwards is not true.

You put a man on the moon.

There is no better way of showing the world that one is not backwards.

I guess most simple people in Europe see the US as "2 or 3 good states and the rest is rednecks"
 

joko104

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I`d say bad marketing.

German is starting to change from "ruthless, cold and heartless" to "the people who are never late for work" and "make machines that always work".

Southern stereotypes arent changing cause the South hasnt and isnt chaning.

And incest, racism and biggotry isnt exactly something with which one could market themselves in a positive way.
Timid, defeated and paranoid about the military also comes to mind.
 

joko104

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I wont.

The idea that Europeans see Americans as inherently backwards is not true.

You put a man on the moon.

There is no better way of showing the world that one is not backwards.

I guess most simple people in Europe see the US as "2 or 3 good states and the rest is rednecks"

The opinion of the USA would be based primarily on how Hollywood portrays Americans and the USA. I suspect most Europeans used to think of Americans as cowboys.
 

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I wasn't aware that the stereotype of Americans was the ignorant incestuous bigoted redneck....ya learn something new every day.

meh, that fine.. when I think of Germans , I think of engineers driving BMW's.. to the ovens.... to kill jews.... by the million.

that's a fair stereotype, right?:cool:
 

SBu

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sangha

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Been reading several social studies again on stereotypes mainly.

I firmly believe that most stereotypes are grounded in truth and have some justification to them. That they are the result of perception and expirience by peoples and not just the result of a media portrait of peoples and cultures. Of course such cultural presentations do contribute to a stereotype, but I`d argue that the personal expiriences of peoples and the actual situation in society contributes more. And because of that, stereotypes do not just have more truth to them than some would say, they are also subject to change as society changes.

The stereotype of the Black thugh exists because of the gang and criminal culture within the poor black community.
The Southern stereotype exists because of the history and culture of the South.
Germans are seen as ruthless and cruel because our ancestors burned half the world.
British are seen as arrogant because within their culture is a post colonial sentiment of looking down on other cultures.

I mention this and the study because I had an argument with a friend over the subject. And he asked "Why is the stereotype of the American outside of America the Southern redneck?"
He sent me several studies to prove his point and I didnt have anything to counter that. Indeed the prevailing stereotype of the average American is that of the Southern redneck.

So how could this have happend?

Because rednecks symbolize qualities that are the opposite of the way proud americans see their country

America is a prosperous land of opportunity and equal rights with a well educated population.

Rednecks are poor, illiterate bigots who used to enslave black people.
 

nota bene

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Which is stupid because bush was born in New England and Ivy League educated.

The Texas accent and southern personality is all an act...

No, the family moved to Texas when he was two.
 

EMNofSeattle

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No, the family moved to Texas when he was two.

But where did the southern accent come from? If he grew up with parents and relatives who are all Northeastern, I think he self taught himself the accent,
 

EMNofSeattle

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Because rednecks symbolize qualities that are the opposite of the way proud americans see their country

America is a prosperous land of opportunity and equal rights with a well educated population.

Rednecks are poor, illiterate bigots who used to enslave black people.

Did you even think about this before you posted it? I know the etymology of the term and have a good understanding of the social structure of the south in the post civil war era. Everything you said is wrong
 

EMNofSeattle

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Because rednecks symbolize qualities that are the opposite of the way proud americans see their country

America is a prosperous land of opportunity and equal rights with a well educated population.

Rednecks are poor, illiterate bigots who used to enslave black people.

The term redneck as slang developed on two parallel tracks, it was used by wealthy urban businessmen and the plantation class to refer to poor white farmers and sharecroppers. Who were incredibly low on the social scale. In fact these business classes even planted discord between poor whites and blacks to keep themselves powerful. No one in the Deep South post bellum referred to as a "redneck" owned a slave or had ancestors who had. They were just as bad off as the blacks in many cases. In others only a peg above on the social scale. If you look at the plantation economy of South America, that's what the Deep South was.

The other track was in Appalachia where the union coal miners of multiple races put red scarves on their necks as a sign of solidarity against the big mine owners and the governments in their employ.

The term redneck was used as a pejorative to have people disregard the workers
 

VanceMack

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I've been to Germany several times. I know there are wonderful, gracious, intelligent people there. I also know there are some completely ignorant, retarded, mindless douchebags from Germany.

But then...one doesnt have to travel to Germany to learn that.
 

nota bene

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But where did the southern accent come from? If he grew up with parents and relatives who are all Northeastern, I think he self taught himself the accent,

I think he probably had to work to rid himself of a West Texas accent, which is very strong and distinctly West Texas. But he moved to Houston in 7th grade, so his accent would be more "Southern." And he did marry a Texas girl. And I think Laura probably worked hard to soften her West Texas accent too. (If you want to hear one, listen to Dagan McDowell--sp?--on Fox Business News sometime.)
 

EMNofSeattle

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I think he probably had to work to rid himself of a West Texas accent, which is very strong and distinctly West Texas. But he moved to Houston in 7th grade, so his accent would be more "Southern." And he did marry a Texas girl.

I'm just saying, I've lived in the Pacific Northwest all my life but I didn't speak with the accent until I forced myself to learn and speak the PNW accent....
 
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