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happy or athiest

dadman said:
I have a theory I’d like to run by you people.
Unhappy people are atheist, they want life to be over and hope that when you die that’s it;
you just go to sleep forever.
Happy people tend to look for someone to thank and turn to god;
they like life and want more of it.
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It would be nice if I could live forever, but I see no reason to think I can.
 
Guy Incognito said:
You have a precise variety of atheism that is agnostic towards afterlife. I think that is a great worldview. Good for you! But other atheists go farther than this, and make truth-claims as to the nonexistence of afterlife. We have seen at least two examples in this very thread. And I acknowledge them as well. They are just as entitled to the word "atheist" as you are.
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We all agree that many atheists make truth-claims as to the nonexistence of afterlife. No one has said otherwise.

Romans called early Christians "atheist" because of their disbelief in the Roman pantheon, but this doesn't mean that one can call Christians atheists using a modern definition of the word "atheist". We are using a different definition from you for the word "atheist". We don't have a monopoly on definitions, but neither do you. If a certain fundamentalist thinks a one must believe the bible is infallible to be a Christian, then anyone that thinks the bible has errors is not a Christian according to that fundamentalist's definition. One might think their atheism is, in part, about the afterlife, and they are free to think that, but they are using a different definition from many others. Different definitions of words are like homonyms in that they are spelled and pronounced the same, but have different meanings. The Rev Kros, scourge99, Tucker Case, Cephus, and I consider "non-belief in a god" to be a definition of the word "atheist". This does not mean I think one can't use a definition of the word "atheist" that means "non-belief in anything supernatural", but If that happens to be the only definition that a certain person considers valid, then someone who doesn't believe in a god, but believes in ghosts is not an atheist according to that "certain person's" definition. The definition that I have been using is more inclusive than that.

This conversation started when scourge replied to people who were saying that atheists could not believe in an afterlife and still be an atheist. The word atheist does not necessarily mean anything more than "non-belief in a god", and I prefer that definition because it is simple, inclusive, and precise. My preferred definition does not place a restriction on whether an atheist can believe or disbelieve in the afterlife.

If someone uses the less inclusive definition they would say an "atheist" must have no belief in the supernatural, but they could not say that someone who does not have a belief in a god, God, or gods (a different but valid definition of the word "atheist") must have no belief in the supernatural.
 
The fact that some atheist believe in an afterlife is news to me. I come here to learn as well as to spout my own opinions.It does beg the question though. Most atheist AKA Darwinist say you can't prove theres a GOD because theres no evidence. What exactly is the "evidence" of an after life?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The fact that some atheist believe in an afterlife is news to me. I come here to learn as well as to spout my own opinions.It does beg the question though. Most atheist AKA Darwinist say you can't prove theres a GOD because theres no evidence. What exactly is the "evidence" of an after life?
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You really need to get your terms straight, here.

Atheist = disbelief in gods, or belief that there is no god (different, but both called atheism).

Nowhere in that definition does it say anything at all about any scientific theory, or any non-deity related supernatural phenomena.

You can be an atheist and reject evolution. You can be an atheist and believe in reincarnation. Or ghosts. Or fairies. The only thing you can't believe in and still call yourself an atheist is a deity.

Science is not the same as atheism. Atheism is not mutually exclusive with spirituality.

How can someone believe in something supernatural without believing in a deity from whence it came? I dunno. It's no more or less irrational than anything theists claim, so if your beliefs don't have to line up with logic why do theirs? People in glass houses, and all.
 
MistressNomad said:
You really need to get your terms straight, here.

Atheist = disbelief in gods, or belief that there is no god (different, but both called atheism).

Nowhere in that definition does it say anything at all about any scientific theory, or any non-deity related supernatural phenomena.

You can be an atheist and reject evolution. You can be an atheist and believe in reincarnation. Or ghosts. Or fairies. The only thing you can't believe in and still call yourself an atheist is a deity.

Science is not the same as atheism. Atheism is not mutually exclusive with spirituality.

How can someone believe in something supernatural without believing in a deity from whence it came? I dunno. It's no more or less irrational than anything theists claim, so if your beliefs don't have to line up with logic why do theirs? People in glass houses, and all.
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Since various posters have posted evidence about the diversity of opinion within the atheist community, it would be absurd to argue that this diversity does not exist. But what I don't understand is what is the basis for not believing in god(s), but yet still believing in the supernatural. I'm not saying there is no coherent argument for believing so, I just can't, for the life of me, see what that might be.
 
Beats me. I'm not convinced of any supernatural phenomena. But it doesn't strike me as any more irrational than any theist claim, really. They all have the same problem, you just have to ask "why" one additional time.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I have a theory I’d like to run by you people. Unhappy people are atheist, they want life to be over and hope that when you die that’s it; you just go to sleep forever. Happy people tend to look for someone to thank and turn to god; they like life and want more of it.
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My Dad's a minister and he's one of the most miserable and unhappy people I've ever known.

:shrug:

Why does looking to a diety *make* people happy - in your opinion? I see the opposite, actually - churches are often full of people struggling with life, miserable, at the end of their rope and in the trenches . . . not blissfully running around in the daisies all ditsy and disconnected.

In my view: considering family issues I've seen unfold: my families christian beliefs gives them 'a greater being' to shrug things off on: instead of stressing out over life and TRYING to make life happen for theirselves they tend to just pray a little and then go about thing sas usual as if nothing bad ever happened - it's like a 'forget me' pill or something.

It's left quite a path of destruction everywhere they go - things left undone, unanswered for and untouched . . .things that shouldn't be.
 
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scourge99 said:
Let me rephrase. The Catholic church will label others groups and denominations as "Christian". But the Catholic Church makes it no secret that they believe themselves the "one and only true church of Christ".
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Tat rephrasing makes a big difference. I accept your retraction and concession on this point.

As for our other discussion, the fact is that there are many different sorts of atheism, and some forms of atheism speak to the nonexistence of afterlife. Examples have been provided in the thread. There self-identification as such is enough to prove this point and end the discussion. There existence and rightful claim to atheism, though of a different sort than what your atheism, is still valid.

However, since this the truth clearly conflicts with your fundamentalist approach to weak atheism, which apparently admits no deviation from your own personal doctrine, I'll extend to you the same respect I would to any other religious fundamentalist and politely leave you to your own worldview. Enjoy!
 
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Guy Incognito said:
Tat rephrasing makes a big difference. I accept your retraction and concession on this point.
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I have no problem admitting when i have erred. The same can not be said of you.


Guy Incognito said:
As for our other discussion, the fact is that there are many different sorts of atheism
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I and many others have asked you to identify these "other atheists". Its appears you are unable to and continue to dance about the issue pretending as though you have.

Guy Incognito said:
and some forms of atheism speak to the nonexistence of afterlife./quote] Which form of atheism exactly??? PLEASE NAME IT. I am fully aware that some atheists do not believe in an afterlife but it has nothing to do with atheism. Just like some atheists might self identify as humanists but that doesn't make humanism a form of atheism.

Guy Incognito said:
Examples have been provided in the thread.
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Examples of atheists having a disbelief in the afterlife have been presented. Zero examples have been provided of a form of atheism that rejects a belief in the afterlife. Its clear you still don't understand the difference despite several posters reiterating the exact same point.

Guy Incognito said:
There self-identification as such is enough to prove this point and end the discussion.
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They self identify as "atheists". Not some special form of atheism. Just like some atheists might self identify as humanists but that doesn't make humanism a form of atheism. You still are unable to understand this.

Guy Incognito said:
However, since this the truth clearly conflicts with your fundamentalist approach to weak atheism, which apparently admits no deviation from your own personal doctrine, I'll extend to you the same respect I would to any other religious fundamentalist and politely leave you to your own worldview. Enjoy!
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It is nothing less than idiotic to make accusations claiming to know someones personal thoughts and motivations in a debate. But trolls will be trolls.
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Aunt Spiker said:
Why does looking to a diety *make* people happy - in your opinion? I see the opposite, actually - churches are often full of people struggling with life, miserable, at the end of their rope and in the trenches . . . not blissfully running around in the daisies all ditsy and disconnected.
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And doctors' offices are full of people who are sick. That doesn't mean the doctor is a quack
 
scourge99 said:
I and many others have asked you to identify these "other atheists". Its appears you are unable to and continue to dance about the issue pretending as though you have.
Examples of atheists having a disbelief in the afterlife have been presented. Zero examples have been provided of a form of atheism that rejects a belief in the afterlife. Its clear you still don't understand the difference despite several posters reiterating the exact same point.
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I have posted a link with an example of a form of atheism that rejects any belief in anything supernatural
 
I
Aunt Spiker said:
My Dad's a minister and he's one of the most miserable and unhappy people I've ever known.

:shrug:

Why does looking to a Deity *make* people happy - in your opinion? I see the opposite, actually - churches are often full of people struggling with life, miserable, at the end of their rope and in the trenches . . . not blissfully running around in the daisies all ditsy and disconnected.

In my view: considering family issues I've seen unfold: my families Christian beliefs gives them 'a greater being' to shrug things off on: instead of stressing out over life and TRYING to make life happen for their selves they tend to just pray a little and then go about thing sas usual as if nothing bad ever happened - it's like a 'forget me' pill or something.

It's left quite a path of destruction everywhere they go - things left undone, unanswered for and untouched . . .things that shouldn't be.
Click to expand...

I think many atheist come from dysfunctional religious families. The family that prays together doesn't necessarily stay together, religion is like any other thing in life, it can be used for good or evil. Witness current Islamic terrorism, good ole Jihad.By the way, it would be helpful if people would use spell check, then when I do I wouldn't have to correct their spelling too. LOL
 
sangha said:
No they aren't
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Yeah, actually they are. Maybe that's your problem, you're too busy flogging a straw man to actually come up with an argument.
 
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