happy or athiest

[Anarcho-fascist]

Why would an atheist think an out of body experience is a sign of an afterlife when there is no scientific evidence to support the existence of an afterlife? The OOB experience may have been caused by physiological changes in the brain.

What does atheism have to do with science?

 

[Anarcho-fascist]

Can someone believe in an a God but not an afterlife?

 

[sangha]

What does atheism have to do with science?

IMO, very little, but the (some of?) atheists in this thread have argued that belief without scientific evidence is irrational. Now, the argument is that belief without scientific evidence is rational

For the record, I think that someone can not believe in Gods' existence (atheism) and believe in supernaturalism without being irrational because I think "because it makes me happy" is a good reason to believe in something. However, there is at least one atheist in this thread who has said that belief without scientific evidence is irrational, but a belief in the afterlife is a rational one.

 

[sangha]

Can someone believe in an a God but not an afterlife?

Yes. I believe so

 

[ecofarm]

I believe in "god", an "afterlife", a "soul/spirit" and I'm atheist. I don't believe anything superatural. I explain those things without magic or extra-dimensions.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Then you agree with scourge.

No.

atheism does not address an afterlife. atheism/theism is about belief in gods. nothing more. nothing less.

This is false. For some, atheism may address an afterlife. Scourge is making a sweeping statement imputing his own beliefs about atheism to all atheists. Some atheists may or may not address an afterlife in their truth-claims regarding atheism.

 

[Verthaine]

The issue is whether being an atheist is logically compatible with believing in an afterlife. If you are arguing that an atheist can hold irrational and illogical beliefs, then you're not saying much.

Can you please explain what "afterlife" you are talking about?
Which afterlife you are talking about?
Or are you just talking about the afterlife that YOU believe in?
The First Law of Energy Conservation states that Energy cannot be created nor destroyed,it can only change forms.

I think it is very logical to think that "The soul" is made up of some type of energy/matter that we do no understand and as of yet been unable to detect.

I gave examples of where the soul could go after the body dies.
1-Re-Incarnation into another form in this universe.
2-Re-incarnation into another form in another universe.

You didn't explain why those two examples are wrong?

If you are arguing that an atheist can hold irrational and illogical beliefs, then you're not saying much.

Play "Twister" much?

Seems to me that you have yet to prove that being an atheist and believing in an afterlife is irrational and illogical.
That's your failure,don't take it out on me.

I can't list all the things I believe in in one internet posting. I'm not even going to try, but I will say that I believe in God and I have a logical reason for believing so, so my belief is "rational".[/QUOTE]

You don't have list all the things you believe in,but if you would be so kind to at least answer these three questions.
1-What exactly do you mean by "God"?
2-Why do you believe
3-Are people who do not believe in God the way YOU do being illogical and irrationable?

 

[sangha]

Can you please explain what "afterlife" you are talking about?
Which afterlife you are talking about?
Or are you just talking about the afterlife that YOU believe in?
The First Law of Energy Conservation states that Energy cannot be created nor destroyed,it can only change forms.

I think it is very logical to think that "The soul" is made up of some type of energy/matter that we do no understand and as of yet been unable to detect.

I gave examples of where the soul could go after the body dies.
1-Re-Incarnation into another form in this universe.
2-Re-incarnation into another form in another universe.

You didn't explain why those two examples are wrong?


Play "Twister" much?

Seems to me that you have yet to prove that being an atheist and believing in an afterlife is irrational and illogical.
That's your failure,don't take it out on me.

You don't have list all the things you believe in,but if you would be so kind to at least answer these three questions.
1-What exactly do you mean by "God"?
2-Why do you believe
3-Are people who do not believe in God the way YOU do being illogical and irrationable?

I have no desire to prove anything wrong about your beliefs or your posts. Maybe it's because you haven't followed this thread far enough back, but there is an argument being made that

1) Beliefs require scientific evidence to be rational
2) A lack of any scientific to support a belief justifies believing that it is untrue
3) But it's rational to believe in an afterlife, even though there is no scientific evidence to support it

If it seems like I'm playing Twister it's because I'm responding to someone who adopts whatever argument is convenient at the moment. This poster is not you.

And so, for the record, I do not believe it is irrational to be an atheist who believes in the afterlife. However, there is an atheist here who believes in the three things I just listed, which don't make sense to me.

And as far as your three additional questions, I will not be answering them. If you have a point, surely you can make it without my assistance.

 

[Anarcho-fascist]

No.



This is false. For some, atheism may address an afterlife. Scourge is making a sweeping statement imputing his own beliefs about atheism to all atheists. Some atheists may or may not address an afterlife in their truth-claims regarding atheism.

You are not understanding. What do you think scourge is saying about atheists? He is saying they might or might not believe in the supernatural. He responding to someone saying atheists cannot believe in an afterlife by saying it is possible for atheists to believe in an afterlife. He is not saying atheists must believe a certain way. Atheism means "having no belief in a god". Atheists can address the truth claims of an afterlife, atheism does not. It is possible for one not to believe in gods and not believe in an afterlife for the same or similar reasons. People who are anti abortion might be anti death penalty for the same reason, e.g. killing is always wrong, but that doesn't mean that position of anti-abortion addresses the position of anti death penalty.

Analogy:
the position of 9/11 being a demolition does not address whether the moon landings happened. 9/11 truth/the 9/11 commission report is about whether it was Al-Qaeda or the government did 9/11. nothing more. nothing less.

This is false. For some, position of anti-abortion may address the death penalty. A poster is making a sweeping statement imputing his own beliefs about the position of anti-abortion to all people who support stopping abortions. Some believers of the anti-abortion position may or may not address the death penalty in their truth-claims regarding the anti-abortion position.

Just because atheism doesn't address the afterlife doesn't mean atheists don't.

 

[Guy Incognito]

What do you think scourge is saying about atheists?

I think he said this:

atheism does not address an afterlife.

Which is only true of some atheists.

 

[scourge99]

I think he said this:

atheism does not address an afterlife.

Which is only true of some atheists.

its true of atheism, which is all i said.

anarcho-fascist reiterated this perfectly when he said: Atheists can address the truth claims of an afterlife, atheism does not.

 

[Guy Incognito]

its true of atheism, which is all i said.

anarcho-fascist reiterated this perfectly when he said: Atheists can address the truth claims of an afterlife, atheism does not.

"Atheism" may or may not address the afterlife, it depends on the particular type of atheism. Your view is apparently weak or passive atheist, which in your case does not. On the other hand, certain varieties of strong atheism do address the nonexistence of afterlife. This is why you are over reaching in attempting to ascribe your particular subvariety of atheism to all atheists generally.

 

[The Rev Kros]

I have a theory I’d like to run by you people. Unhappy people are atheist, they want life to be over and hope that when you die that’s it; you just go to sleep forever. Happy people tend to look for someone to thank and turn to god; they like life and want more of it.

I am much happier as an atheist than I was as a believer. The biggest reason was the lack of guilt. As a christian I was wracked with guilt. I was guilty if I didn't go to church that Sunday, if I didn't say my prayers, if I didn't witness, if I didn't tithe, if I didn't behave in a christian manner, etc.

There is a passage in Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali when she finally looked into the mirror and said she didn't believe in god. When I read what she wrote it was moving. I had felt the exact same way she did.

I had no one to talk to about this. One night in that Greek hotel I looked in the mirror and said out loud, "I don't believe in God." I said it slowly, enunciating it carefully, in Somali. And I felt relief.

It felt right. There was no pain, but a real clarity. The long process of seeing the flaws in my belief structure and carefully tiptoeing around the frayed edges as parts of it were torn out, piece by piece - that was all over. The angels, watching from my shoulders; the mental tension about having sex without marriage, and drinking alcohol, and not observing any religious obligations-they were gone. The ever-present prospect of hellfire lifted, and my horizon seemed broader. God, Satan, angels: these were all figments of human imagination. From now on I could step firmly on the ground that was under my feet and navigate based on my own reason and self-respect. My moral compass was within myself, not in the pages of a sacred book.​

 

[Anarcho-fascist]

On the other hand, certain varieties of strong atheism do address the nonexistence of afterlife.

For example?

 

[Guy Incognito]

For example?

Examples are plentiful. See the quote The Rev Kros just provided:

I had no one to talk to about this. One night in that Greek hotel I looked in the mirror and said out loud, "I don't believe in God." I said it slowly, enunciating it carefully, in Somali. And I felt relief.

It felt right. There was no pain, but a real clarity. The long process of seeing the flaws in my belief structure and carefully tiptoeing around the frayed edges as parts of it were torn out, piece by piece - that was all over. The angels, watching from my shoulders; the mental tension about having sex without marriage, and drinking alcohol, and not observing any religious obligations-they were gone. The ever-present prospect of hellfire lifted, and my horizon seemed broader. God, Satan, angels: these were all figments of human imagination. From now on I could step firmly on the ground that was under my feet and navigate based on my own reason and self-respect. My moral compass was within myself, not in the pages of a sacred book.

 

[Paschendale]

I think it's important to remember that the disbelief in the Abrahamic god is no different from disbelief in unicorns, werewolves, and Roswell greys. They are all part of the human consciousness. We've believed in all of them over the course of history. But now we have substantially more knowledge about the world and how it works. Everything which is apparently made up, should not be given credence. I give no credence to any myths, fairy tales, or any supernatural stories.

And yet, nearly everyone says "of course there are no werewolves." What makes this god thing so different? It's the emotional stock that people have invested in the myth that makes it different, not the validity of the myth itself. It's still just a myth, and thus subject to scrutiny. And none of the myths I've mentioned have stood up in the face of scrutiny.

Of course, none of this addresses the OP. Belief in that which does not exist has no direct correlation on one's happiness.

 

[scourge99]

"Atheism" may or may not address the afterlife, it depends on the particular type of atheism.

what are they different types of atheism, exactly? explain how they address an afterlife.

strong and weak atheism does not address an afterlife.

your view is apparently weak or passive atheist, which in your case does not.

ive asked you before to define "passive atheism". it appears to be a term you have made up. is it just another term you use for "weak atheism"?

On the other hand, certain varieties of strong atheism do address the nonexistence of afterlife.

there are no variations of strong atheism. there are only strong atheists who have varying beliefs on the afterlife. just like there are strong atheists who have varying beliefs on the existence of aliens. neither belief/disbelief in aliens or an afterlife are associated with special types of atheism.

This is why you are over reaching in attempting to ascribe your particular subvariety of atheism to all atheists generally.

i am a weak atheist.

the definition of atheist i've presented covers weak atheists, strong atheists, and all other people who do not believe in the existence of any gods. its absolutely silly on your part to say that im
defining all atheists in terms of weak atheism when i have repeatedly explained i am not with direct contradictions to your accusation.

furthermore you are presenting an asinine accusation that i am defining atheism out of some ulterior motive of personal self interest. it is nothing less than idiotic to make such accusations by claiming to know someones personal thoughts and motivations in a debate. do you understand that?

 

[Guy Incognito]

Of course, none of this addresses the OP. Belief in that which does not exist has no direct correlation on one's happiness.

Well said. I think The Rev Kros provided a great example of someone whose atheism provided a deep fulfillment of her spiritual needs, quite the contrary to the role religion often plays for others. Indeed, her particular view of atheism necessitated a rejection of afterlife, which brought her great relief. She seems to be an excellent example of the fact that one can be both happy and an atheist. For some people happiness even requires atheism.

 

[Anarcho-fascist]

Examples are plentiful. See the quote The Rev Kros just provided:

You still don't understand. Please read carefully what we are saying. You are using a definition of atheism that means "non-belief in the supernatural". We are not saying that atheists don't have opinions of the supernatural. Ayaan Hirsi Ali rejected not just her God belief, but also multiple supernatural phenomenon and religious doctrines. If she had discarded her belief in God, but not any of the other things she would still be an atheist. She may have dropped all those beliefs for the same reason as she dropped her belief in God, and her atheism might be a central part of a materialistic worldview, but that doesn't mean that her atheism itself addresses more than whether she believes in God(s).

 

[Cephus]

Which is only true of some atheists.

No, it's true of all atheists. Atheism is the answer to a single question: do you believe in god(s). Anything beyond that question isn't atheism. It may be shared by some, many or most atheists, but it still has nothing to do with atheism itself. Atheism, in and of itself, has nothing whatsoever to do with any afterlife.

 

[Tucker Case]

No, it's true of all atheists. Atheism is the answer to a single question: do you believe in god(s). Anything beyond that question isn't atheism. It may be shared by some, many or most atheists, but it still has nothing to do with atheism itself. Atheism, in and of itself, has nothing whatsoever to do with any afterlife.

Well put. Too many people confuse atheism (which is a singular belief) with religion (which is a set of beliefs), perhaps because of the attempts to portray it as such by the religious, but in truth, it is not a set of beliefs at all. It is simple a singular belief (or lack of a single belief).

Which is why Buddhism, contrary to what someone said earlier in this thread, is actually an atheistic religion.

 

[sangha]

Well put. Too many people confuse atheism (which is a singular belief) with religion (which is a set of beliefs), perhaps because of the attempts to portray it as such by the religious, but in truth, it is not a set of beliefs at all. It is simple a singular belief (or lack of a single belief).

Which is why Buddhism, contrary to what someone said earlier in this thread, is actually an atheistic religion.

Atheists.org disagree with that definition

American Atheists | atheism

Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, which implies that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Which is why Buddhism, contrary to what someone said earlier in this thread, is actually an atheistic religion.

That isn't true, most schools of Buddhism recognize many deities. Buddhism usually incorporates the folk deities of the culture to some extent, and also venerates some types of bodhisattvas that can only be compared to demigods. You may be thinking of a few school, such as Chan, which are more agnostic towards folk-deities, but this agnosticism is not so much a tenet of the religion as a pragmatic ambivalence. These schools consider beliefs about deities to get in the way of enlightenment.

 

[Guy Incognito]

No, it's true of all atheists. Atheism is the answer to a single question: do you believe in god(s). Anything beyond that question isn't atheism. It may be shared by some, many or most atheists, but it still has nothing to do with atheism itself. Atheism, in and of itself, has nothing whatsoever to do with any afterlife.

I wouldn't have thought an atheist would be so doctrinaire. You are pigeonholing all atheists into your particular belief system. For some people, such as the author quoted earlier by The Rev Kros, atheism does speak to the nonexistence of the afterlife.

Your particular type of atheism does not speak to the afterlife. The atheism of others may indeed speak to the nonexistence of afterlife. The author posted earlier is just one such example. This is a variety of strong atheism that does indeed exist. Why deny it?

 

[sangha]

I find it ironic that, as an atheist, you can be so doctrinaire. You are pigeonholing all atheists into your particular belief system. For some people, such as the author quoted earlier by The Rev Kros, atheism does speak to the nonexistence of the afterlife.

And I've posted a link to atheists.org which directly refutes his doctrinaire position.