• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fury as Israel president claims English are 'anti-semitic

Status
Not open for further replies.

24107

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
2,809
Reaction score
824
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Thank you for sharing, very interersting how abused this card is getting to be.
 
Last edited:

MKULTRABOY

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
10,621
Reaction score
2,104
Location
In your dreams...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
What countries are not anti-Semitic then, I wonder.
 

Republic_Of_Public

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,922
Reaction score
343
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Shimon Peres said England was "deeply pro-Arab ... and anti-Israeli", adding: "They always worked against us."

At first I thought to myself, 'Well of all the damn cheek'.

Then I remembered that the Establishment does indeed pander to the 'other side' on most levels. (I go off on one about that enough). MPs like Galloway or Benn (to name two) are quick to condemn Israeli butchers and baby-eaters whilst standing by without a whimper when Israel is attacked by the human-shielders of Hamas.

Muslim and left wing thugs riot when Israel reasserts itself and opinion formers in the leftist press and grassroots are rarely slow to bash Israel. And the Foreign Office is so notoriously pro-Arab that the writers of Yes Minister bothered to devote an entire episode to it.

It's no wonder Mr. Peres vents his frustration - and all some people can say is 'very interesting how abused this card is getting to be'. (Different story when it's an Israeli perceived to be playing victim rather than someone playing the race or rape card to beat a prison rap. In that circumstance people making similar criticisms are lambasted!)


Nazi_Kikes.jpg



_________________________

Still, anti-semitic attacks ARE up. The Left tend to just blame the BNP, but more predictable yet unspoken suspects fuel the rise:
Muslims Fuel Rise In Anti-Semitic Incidents - HUMAN EVENTS

Rape claims must be taken seriously, so seriously that if you even imply some wiomen cry rape and make a big deal of it, you're brown bread son! Even claimed race crimes are shot up the list of police priorities by act of law. But you can't be the Israeli president complaining, because then that's just whining and blowing:
The Daily Mail and its constant ‘cry rape’ stories | Liberal Conspiracy
 
Last edited:

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,657
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Considering all the incredibly biased Brits to have traipsed through here, I'd say he was spot on.
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
To me, this highlights more and more the crack that's appearing in US/UK relations
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Is anyone else enjoying the end of that article?

It found, however, that Britain was less anti-semitic than other European countries.

What?? :lamo
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Considering all the incredibly biased Brits to have traipsed through here, I'd say he was spot on.

Well that is it.
Anyone who shows bias against Muslims/Arabs/Islam/[Insert religious/racial and/or ethnic group here] is CLEARLY prejudiced and racist in some way.
 

paris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
2,366
Reaction score
1,438
Location
Yop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Is anyone else enjoying the end of that article?

"It found, however, that Britain was less anti-semitic than other European countries."

What?? :lamo

Definitely, I thought French people were more anti-semitic than the British. Every year there are Jewish cemeteries being damaged in France. I have even been called a dirty Jew here even though I am a goy:confused:
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Definitely, I thought French people were more anti-semitic than the British. Every year there are Jewish cemeteries being damaged in France. I have even been called a dirty Jew here even though I am a goy:confused:

Makes it all the more amusing.
I suppose damaging Jewish cemeteries are okay as long as you do not speak out against Israel.

:roll:
 

Arcana XV

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,405
Reaction score
4,811
Location
Geneva, Switzerland and Rochester, NY
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
:lol: What is this? A contest between the two countries for the most undiplomatic president/prime minister?

Sorry, Mr Peres, you've got a ways to go to catch up to Cameron.
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,080
Reaction score
3,916
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The anti-semite card is getting old... and it's insulting to true instances of anti-semitism.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,135
Reaction score
6,384
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Amazing how the British press has no shame at all in twisting words.
He hasn't made the claim that "England is an anti-Semitic country".

He has said, and I translate it from Hebrew, that "Britain was always against us, was always extremely pro-Arab and anti-Israeli".
And has also said later on that "In Britain there is a saying that an anti-Semite is someone who hates the Jews more than necessary".

So yes, I completely agree with him, Britain is undoubtedly the most anti-Israeli country in Europe and it is indeed a home to many anti-Semites.
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,080
Reaction score
3,916
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
And has also said later on that "In Britain there is a saying that an anti-Semite is someone who hates the Jews more than necessary".

Why even say this at all?

I don't think the press distorted anything. I get a pretty clear accusation in the sub-text of that statement. He is saying that Britain is anti-Israel, and that anti-semitism exists in Britain. Yeah, the two are mutually exclusive, but in a top level speech like that it's impossible to not connect the dotted line.

Bad, bad choice of words.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,135
Reaction score
6,384
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Why even say this at all?

Because it is true and it is concerning.
I've used to go to England a lot during the summers, to escape the heat in my country.
About one year ago in July I've actually felt a change, and it wasn't merely in the weather, I wasn't sure if I could even tell people I meet that I am Jewish, let alone an Israeli Jew.
And no, this environment is absolutely not unique to Britain, and France is way more anti-Semitic than Britain is - but France was always sort of like that.
Britain's anti-Semitism has grown in a concerning and drastic ways during the years, according to the statistics there was a 55% growth in anti-Semitic attacks between 2006 to 2009, and that's not even telling the way it feels like when you're actually there.

I don't think the press distorted anything. I get a pretty clear accusation in the sub-text of that statement. He is saying that Britain is anti-Israel, and that anti-semitism exists in Britain. Yeah, the two are mutually exclusive, but in a top level speech like that it's impossible to not connect the dotted line.

"Connecting the dotted line and reaching the conclusion" is I'm afraid entirely dependent on your political lean.
What I see is that Peres was saying that Britain is extremely pro-Arab and anti-Israeli - and I agree with him. He's also saying that anti-Semitism exists in high levels in Britain - and I agree with him.
 

Djoop

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
683
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Unfortunately, anti-semitism is on the rise again and imo Peres has a right to voice his anger.

from the article:
In 2009 there were 924 anti-semitic incidents, the highest figure since CST began keeping records in 1984, and 55 per cent higher than the previous record in 2006.
The figures include reports, accepted only when backed by evidence, of physical assaults, verbal abuse and racist graffiti.
The monthly figure has soared from 10-20 incidents in the 1990s to 40-50 now.


In NL we see the same development. Because of our WW2 trauma, we used to be very pro-active dealing with it but it seems we have let it slide in favor of the extremists among our muslim population, hoping it would fade away. The city of Amsterdam is now comtemplating using 'decoy-jews' to trap these idiots, sad stuff.
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
What I see is that Peres was saying that Britain is extremely pro-Arab and anti-Israeli - and I agree with him. He's also saying that anti-Semitism exists in high levels in Britain - and I agree with him.

I think the labels 'Anti/Pro Israel/Arab' is not accurate.
I think UK is Pro British interests.

And yes anti Semitism occurs in Britain. Why wouldn't it? Racism and sexism is still present.
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
In NL we see the same development. Because of our WW2 trauma, we used to be very pro-active dealing with it but it seems we have let it slide in favor of the extremists among our muslim population, hoping it would fade away. The city of Amsterdam is now comtemplating using 'decoy-jews' to trap these idiots, sad stuff.

We lasted 2 pages before Muslims got mentioned in the thread :roll:

Europeans have always had a suspension about Jews both historically and now.
 
Last edited:

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,135
Reaction score
6,384
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Unfortunately, anti-semitism is on the rise again and imo Peres has a right to voice his anger.

from the article:
In 2009 there were 924 anti-semitic incidents, the highest figure since CST began keeping records in 1984, and 55 per cent higher than the previous record in 2006.
The figures include reports, accepted only when backed by evidence, of physical assaults, verbal abuse and racist graffiti.
The monthly figure has soared from 10-20 incidents in the 1990s to 40-50 now.


In NL we see the same development. Because of our WW2 trauma, we used to be very pro-active dealing with it but it seems we have let it slide in favor of the extremists among our muslim population, hoping it would fade away. The city of Amsterdam is now comtemplating using 'decoy-jews' to trap these idiots, sad stuff.

I disagree with you about the Netherlands, I think they're doing more than anyone else in Europe to combat anti-Semitism and I don't think it's as frequent as in other places.
I have absolutely no problem to tell people I'm an Israeli Jew when I go there and the people are mainly pro-Israeli.

I've also heard that the Dutch police is going to initiate operations where police officers are going undercover as Jews and arrest people in the case of anti-Semite attacks, and I think that's a great idea.
Dutch Police May Go Undercover as Jews to Thwart Attacks - Jewish World - Israel News - Israel National News
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,135
Reaction score
6,384
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I think the labels 'Anti/Pro Israel/Arab' is not accurate.
I think UK is Pro British interests.

I think they're deadly accurate, whether you excuse that with some hidden form of "British interests" or populistic policies or whatever, the picture remains that the British government is taking a clear anti-Israeli stance and almost always has.
That is backed by a great part of the British public that calls for boycotts and sanctions on the Israeli state.

And yes anti Semitism occurs in Britain. Why wouldn't it? Racism and sexism is still present.

Anti-semitism is on a drastic rise.
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I think they're deadly accurate, whether you excuse that with some hidden form of "British interests" or populistic policies or whatever, the picture remains that the British government is taking a clear anti-Israeli stance and almost always has.
That is backed by a great part of the British public that calls for boycotts and sanctions on the Israeli state.

Anti-semitism is on a drastic rise.

And racism hasn't risen?
A rise in anti Semitic attacks usually coincide when something major happens with Israel in the ME. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a rise in 06 during that summer for example. I'd also guess the same occurs across Europe.

The British public is more Pro Palestinian than Pro Israel yes. Why shouldn't the Government reflect what the public want? That is what they are elected to do.
It's not like Israel has good PR in UK and never will. UK Government is always seen as more Pro Israel e.g. Blair and the 06 war.
If it is in UK's interest to be chummy with Arabs for oil and sacrifice a little closeness with Israel for it. I have little problem with it. I don't see close friendship as a necessity for UK but I am only one British voter ofc.
 
Last edited:

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
20,135
Reaction score
6,384
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
And racism hasn't risen?

Feel free to refer me to the statistics concerning racism in general, the article already gives you info about the drastic rise in anti-Semitism.

Anti Semitic attacks usually coincide when something major happens with Israel in the ME. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a rise in 06 during that summer for example. I'd also guess the same occurs across Europe.

The British public is more Pro Palestinian than Pro Israel yes. Why shouldn't the Government reflect what the public want? That is what they are elected to do.
It's not like Israel has good PR in UK and never will. UK Government is always seen as more Pro Israel. Take for example Blair and the 06 war. The public was against Israel yet UK Government didn't condemn Israel until it was forced to
If it is in UK's interest to be chummy with Arabs for oil and sacrifice a little closeness with Israel for it. I have little problem with it. I don't see close friendship as a necessity for UK but I am only one British voter ofc.

It simply means Peres is correct. Britain is indeed extremely anti-Israeli and pro-Arab, it needs to be pointed out since so many Israeli officials are acting as if Britain has Israeli interests in its mind.
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't mind that conclusion personally as long as people don't call it anti Semitic :shrug:

Of course we don't. We have British interests at heart.
 

Djoop

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
683
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We lasted 2 pages before Muslims got mentioned in the thread :roll:
Europeans have always had a suspension about Jews both historically and now.
That's true.
Note; I spoke about muslim extremists, not 'muslims' in general. If that was the case we would have a huge problem because there are roughly 1 million muslims in NL. We still have 'white' antisemites but like I said, after WW2 they got little chance to vent their racist views, we've been very active combatting the neo-nazi element in our society.
I disagree with you about the Netherlands, I think they're doing more than anyone else in Europe to combat anti-Semitism and I don't think it's as frequent as in other places.
I have absolutely no problem to tell people I'm an Israeli Jew when I go there and the people are mainly pro-Israeli.
I hope it stays that way because only this year we saw incidents with jews getting harassed leaving their synagogues, a young maroccan boy who said on national tv that he loves to stab jews, jewish cemetaries being violated, history teachers complaining that they have trouble teaching about the holocaust... I don't have to tell you where this is coming from.
 

alexa

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
1,340
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Antisemitism comes from ignorance and hatred and like any kind of racism can never be justified.

I think the important and necessary thing is to differentiate antisemetism and negative feelings about Israel. I guess as part of their antisemetism, antisemeties would not like Israel. However to imagine that that is the reason for most criticism or even negative feelings to Israel is incorrect.

Israel has so tried to equate the two we have in the UK Jews whose family were murdered in the holocaust called self hating or antisemetic because they strongly criticise Israel. This equation would not be accepted in any other situation.

Unfortunately we do have a rise in antisemetism whenever there is military activity by the Israelis. I think of these people as the 'rent a thugs', whoever this week or year is the person to target will get it.

However criticism of Israel is there and imo is likely to get stronger. Hence rather than equating antisemetism with criticism of Israel which asks people who are negative or critical of Israel to identify themselves as antisemite, we need instead strong education to separate the two. People need to be extremely conscious that whatever Israel gets up to is the responsibility of only the elite there. From there hopefully proper political discourse can develop.

Every now and then I pop over to the MPACUK forum. I guess it would be expected that you find a strong criticism of Israel over there. What I am happy to see is that they invariably differentiate between the actions of the Israeli government and Judaism or Jews whom they are not negative about.

The danger in calling this criticism antisemetism is what is known as the self fulfilling prophesy. That has to be avoided.

If honesty is every to get out from under the covers regarding Israel, a separation of antisemetism and the situation in the ME must be the grounding.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom